Health Care reform from a Doctors perspective

[LittleSoldier]

Doctor’s in the military make less than $75k/year. Also thought this was an interesting comment in this blog.

The request was to find a doctor that earned $75/year, not $75K/year.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Oh doctors Get great benifits? What benifits Amy, they provide them out of there own pocket, Unless they work for a hospital, Most doctors contract privately.

All Im asking for is Just compensation, and to not take away what Doctors already have! Its hit the floor of the house more than once now to decrease medicare reimbursment another 29%.

Who would want to become a doctor if you had to go to school for 16 years and get paid 65000.

Not sure but have fun with that amy!

Most doctors who go into their field for love will do it for $65K a year.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Steave,
Maybe you haven’t been reading what I’ve written. It sounds like you would be better off working for a government-run program. Reread what I wrote and really listen, don’t just think about a rebuttal. Try to digest it.

“Dear Steave,
I am a licensed clinical social worker. I work for the State and many of my colleagues are doctors. You are not getting sympathy from me. The doctors I work with have a great quality of life. They have salaries in the 6 didgets and great benefits. The doctors live in big, beautiful homes; they drive new cars; their kids go to private schools and they take their family on trips with all their paid vacation time.”

I don’t think he will understand. I’m sorry but I don’t think he will even try to understand. After reading his posts I have come to the conclusion that he is so angry and typing so fast that his posts are absolutely riddled with spelling errors and his tone is one of arrogance.

You are correct in what you have stated.

 

[Steave]

Yes - they deserve the same rights as everyone else. I assume that means the right to health care. That right is denied to a lot of people in this country. And I don’t agree with people who state that emergency room services are provided whether or not a person can pay and that justifies it. Because yes, they treat them, and then those same hospitals force people into bankruptcy. I’m not talking about lazy people who just don’t want to get a job. I am talking about really poor people who have found themselves in their situation through no fault of their own.

A poor person might even be able to sock away a few bucks a month in savings. But that will disappear completely with one visit to an ER. On top of that, the hospital will continue to hound them. I know this is true because it has happened to people that I know and it has happened to me. Hospitals are supposed to set up payment plans and they do, but what if you just cannot pay even the minimum amount they are demanding? What do you do then? Declare bankruptcy? OK, so if you do declare bankruptcy what happens when you have to go to the ER the next time? You can only declare bankruptcy once every seven years (I’m not sure of what the actual time frame is; it has changed since I was forced into bankruptcy for medical reasons).

Poor people do not have money trees growing in their yards. Most of them don’t even have yards. They do not have enough money to receive medical care. They are being denied a right which everyone should have.

Know your facts first,
If you have no money no insurance no nothing, and walk into the ER and need your gallblader taken out, it comes out, who do they charge? The Doctor and hospital thank you very much.

People drop your own envy

Now that amy has said whatever I have a new challenege for those of you who dislike the way doctors are
You go to school and become a doctor:thumbsup:

Mr.Soldier thank you so much for serving our country it is because people like you that we have the freedom to talk on the internet as we are. God bless you.
I must ask you, if every doctor quit there specialties to receive lower money who would,
remove brain tumors?
Reconstruct hands?
ACL surgery?
Wisdom teeth removal?
Gallblader?
C-section?
the list goes on and on,
And to become a specialist requires 5+ more years, and also has greater liabillity.

So no amy is not entirely correct, I think whatever she does she should have 50% of her salary cut and sent to I dont care a government agency.

And any one else who thinks that Doctors live Rich.

 

[Steave]

This is a joke, right? You can’t be serious here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steave
*Some in Congress believe that the entire health care problem would be solved if doctors would “accept” salaries of $75,000 per year. Let’s examine this figure to see if it is reasonable.

First, what do people make in other fields, on average?

Bricklayer: $70,000

Umm dont take your complaint up with me, I cited my source, and yes, welders bricklayers, Lawn and garden specialist can make over 6 digits.

Check out your facts *

 

[Steave]

I don’t think he will understand. I’m sorry but I don’t think he will even try to understand. After reading his posts I have come to the conclusion that he is so angry and typing so fast that his posts are absolutely riddled with spelling errors and his tone is one of arrogance.

You are correct in what you have stated.

Will you ever try to understand my side?

I think not

Pitty me… that should be the new national anthem.

 

[LittleSoldier]

know your facts first,
If you have no money no insurance no nothing, and walk into the er and need your gallblader taken out, it comes out, who do they charge? The doctor and hospital thank you very much.

People drop your own envy

now that amy has said whatever i have a new challenege for those of you who dislike the way doctors are
you go to school and become a doctor:thumbsup:

Mr.soldier thank you so much for serving our country it is because people like you that we have the freedom to talk on the internet as we are. God bless you.
I must ask you, if every doctor quit there specialties to receive lower money who would,
remove brain tumors?
Reconstruct hands?
Acl surgery?
Wisdom teeth removal?
Gallblader?
C-section?
The list goes on and on,
and to become a specialist requires 5+ more years, and also has greater liabillity.

So no amy is not entirely correct, i think whatever she does she should have 50% of her salary cut and sent to i dont care a government agency.

And any one else who thinks that doctors live rich.

** I did go to school to become a doctor!!!

I was offered an opening in a medical school in the USA by a member of the admissions group, who was himself a physician. So I could have gone straight into medical school. I had already completed my premed training and I had volunteer experience in a general hospital , in a psychiatric hospital, and in a rehabilitation hospital.

Do you understand this??**

 

[LittleSoldier]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steave
*Some in Congress believe that the entire health care problem would be solved if doctors would “accept” salaries of $75,000 per year. Let’s examine this figure to see if it is reasonable.

First, what do people make in other fields, on average?

Bricklayer: $70,000

Umm dont take your complaint up with me, I cited my source, and yes, welders bricklayers, Lawn and garden specialist can make over 6 digits.

Check out your facts *

I will be glad to check out “your facts” if you provide a proper reference. Simply stating “taken from the blog” is** not** the proper way to cite your source. It isn’t even a sentence!! You either need to provide a link, provide the name and other appropriate information so that another person can find the source, or at the very least, put in the post number where you first placed the cite.

Check out your facts!!

 

[LittleSoldier]

Will you ever try to understand my side?

I think not

Pitty me… that should be the new national anthem.

I am trying to understand your side. Honestly. But when I see sloppily written posts and sarcasm, I tend to react in a negative manner. If you take the time to properly present your opinion, with appropriate citations, and treat others as you would wish to be treated, then you may find you are being taken more seriously. You don’t even check your spelling!! And that makes it very difficult for people to read your posts.

If you want to be taken seriously, please treat the subject and the people you are responding to seriously.

 

[LittleSoldier]

If there were no profit involved, the business would not exist. Therefore, in order for the business to exist, there must be profit.

A business which deals in billions of dollars but which still makes a negative profit (ie, loses money) will go out of business. So, the fact that they “made” billions is meaningless if the profit is not there.

Health insurance companies have to have caps and fine print because otherwise they would lose money and go out of business. If they go out of business, then *no one *will be able to get insurance.

Once a person reaches the lifetime cap, the policy is ended; they do not have to pay any more money.

If what you are saying is true, why is the government bailing out companies? I’m not claiming to understand it. This is just an honest question and I hope that somebody can answer it for me.

 

[LittleSoldier]

There are lots of health care systems that are non-profit for essential services. They don’t use private insurance companies for them. Of course health care workers are paid, but hospitals and medical practices are essentially non-profit.

They aren’t all what I would describe as Catholic societies, so I am not sure I would say that was the defining characteristic, though one would hope a Catholic society would operate that way.

Hi - I see that you are in Canada and I would like to ask you a question about your healthcare system. I live in Oregon and I have talked to different people visiting from Canada. Some say their healthcare system is great; others say there is such a long waiting time that they have to come into the USA in order to obtain needed treatment. I talked to one man who actually moved here for that very reason (or so he said).

So, as an American, I am very confused by all that I have heard. I understand that no system can work perfectly in a country the size of Canada. But could you please tell me your opinion of the Canadian healthcare system? I would very much appreciate it!

I also apologize if you have already stated your opinion. I’m finding it difficult to navigate through this thread.

 

[royal_archer]

…
Poor people do not have money trees growing in their yards. Most of them don’t even have yards. They do not have enough money to receive medical care. They are being denied a right which everyone should have.

You do not seem to understand the term “right” A right that is something that can not be taken away, not something that has to be provided. Yo have the right to the press but we don’t have to buy you a news paper, you have the right to bear arms but we are not obligated to buy you an M-1, you have theright to religion but no one else is obligated to build your place of worship, etc.

So you have the right to purchase or otherwise attain medical care but that does not mean others are obligated to provide it to you.

 

[royal_archer]

Most doctors who go into their field for love will do it for $65K a year.

That is great. Unfortunately that would mean a lot less doctors and less access to health care.

 

[Bluegoat]

Hi - I see that you are in Canada and I would like to ask you a question about your healthcare system. I live in Oregon and I have talked to different people visiting from Canada. Some say their healthcare system is great; others say there is such a long waiting time that they have to come into the USA in order to obtain needed treatment. I talked to one man who actually moved here for that very reason (or so he said).

So, as an American, I am very confused by all that I have heard. I understand that no system can work perfectly in a country the size of Canada. But could you please tell me your opinion of the Canadian healthcare system? I would very much appreciate it!

I also apologize if you have already stated your opinion. I’m finding it difficult to navigate through this thread.

This thread is a bit long.

Just to put it in perspective, the system in Canada means that government sets and pays the fees for hospital care, doctors, and some other heath care practitioners. (There is also private funding in hospitals, I believe about 30%.) Doctors are mostly self-employed, and hospitals are run by community health boards. Drugs are not covered except for the poor and elderly, though the costs are controlled through legislation. Doctors have liability insurance through a co-op. Many people have private insurance for drugs and other extended care. However, one cannot pay usually for basic care and “jump the line” so to speak - if you need an MRI, you go according to need, although you could pay for, say, physiotherapy.

So, how does it work? As far as medications, we are definatly better off I think. As far as what care and procedures are covered and what aren’t, there is usually a good balance struck. Occasionally there is some disagreement, for example whether the HPV vaccine should be offered - but the process is public and fairly responsive.

Wait times are a problem in some areas of care or in some geographical areas that lack doctors (although this latter in particular is also true in the US.) If you look at comparative wait times with Canada and the US, some are about the same and some are longer here. As an example, ER waits on average here are longer. However, waits for emergency and acute cases are about the same in both cases. If you need it done now, it will get done.

Getting nurses is a problem in both countries, and doctors as well, though less in the US. It tends to be a regional and urban rural problem. On average both doctors and nurses are paid less here, though they still have a very good standard of living - lots of doctors drive BMWs, despite what some say.

OTOH, bankruptcies due to medical bills are not common here, and people do not worry about being able to see a doctor, or going to the ER. Occasionally these are abused. There is a lot of freedom in where you get your care and you can see any doctor you choose (though shortages are a problem in some areas.)

As a general observation I would say most Canadians do not have the worry and stress over their health care that Americans have. Many Americans I know spend huge amounts of time dealing with insurance companies, figuring out co-pays, and wondering how they will manage if they lose a job, or have a disabled child, or whatever. And the access to better faster care in the US is restricted to those who can afford it - others will get emergency care and that is it. So to me saying wait times are better there can be misleading - they are better for those that have access.

You do occasionally get those like you mentioned who would, they say, prefer an American style system where they could be seen faster - they often say, “I have a right to been seen sooner than the system will allow” in a very indignant way. Well, I tend to take that with a grain of salt, because usually they mean a Canadian style “right to be seen faster” as in it is their right to have good health care. And the Canadian system means who is seenor treated first depends on triage decisions. If they want an American system with American speed, then the right to be seen quickly goes to those who can pay. So I feel they are trying to have it both ways.

Overall Canadians are very attached to our health care system, including health care staff - they feel strongly that it is their duty to care for all. Recently there was a reality show called “the greatest Canadian.” The winner was a provincial politician who was really not well known outside of the praries, Tommy Douglas, the “Father of Canadian Health Care.”

 

[LittleSoldier]

You do not seem to understand the term “right” A right that is something that can not be taken away, not something that has to be provided. Yo have the right to the press but we don’t have to buy you a news paper, you have the right to bear arms but we are not obligated to buy you an M-1, you have theright to religion but no one else is obligated to build your place of worship, etc.

So you have the right to purchase or otherwise attain medical care but that does not mean others are obligated to provide it to you.

I see your point and I concur, to a degree. I wouldn’t call religion a “right” - we have freedom of religion (or so we are told), we have free speech and I would consider that a right, the right to bear arms is obviously a right, but the right to health care goes beyond those. It is an issue that has to do with how a person is valued as a human being. It isn’t a legal right. It is a human right.

Free medical care is provided to people who are in this country illegally. That is a federal mandate but the states have to pay for it. The reason illegal aliens are given medical care is that it is a basic human right and need. The same is true for every citizen in this country. It’s more important than free press, or the right to bear arms.

I’m probably not explaining it very well and I apologize for that. I don’t know what the answer is. It is so complicated: the disappearing middle class with its loss of income while the upper class becoming smaller yet with much higher wealth (and power), the loss of jobs to other countries (who have problems of their own), SES, baby boomers now retiring and the burden that places on those who have to pay for Social Security, the economy, the national debt, the inability of the government to make their programs work, the wars that are now going on, there are so many factors and I know I haven’t listed one percent.

I don’t want a handout. I want to pay my own way and I will pay my own way as much as I am able. I know there are lazy people who don’t bother working and expect everything to be handed to them. I also know there are physicians and dentists and lawyers who work pro bono. I believe that I am very lucky. But I feel for people who are really hurt, who cannot work, who need help because they just cannot make it without help. In my state, because of budget cutbacks, the state health plan was closed. Period. No new people will be accepted unless they have a dependent. Also, approximately 30 percent of those already on the plan were kicked off. OK. Fine. Maybe it shouldn’t be handed to them. But it is handed to my neighbor, who has lived in this state for one year and pays no rent because he lives with his parents (at the age of 55). He has a son so he has received free knee replacement, free dentures, food stamps and yet he collects money under the table and doesn’t report it as income. There is so much fraud that it seems the people who really need help are just swallowed up.

Maybe the answer is to just clean up the system - get rid of the fraud and make sure that only people who really need it have health care provided to them. I doubt that will happen because there will always be greedy people who “use” the system successfully. But it’s worth a shot (no pun intended).

 

[LittleSoldier]

This thread is a bit long.

Just to put it in perspective, the system in Canada means that government sets and pays the fees for hospital care, doctors, and some other heath care practitioners. (There is also private funding in hospitals, I believe about 30%.) Doctors are mostly self-employed, and hospitals are run by community health boards. Drugs are not covered except for the poor and elderly, though the costs are controlled through legislation. Doctors have liability insurance through a co-op. Many people have private insurance for drugs and other extended care. However, one cannot pay usually for basic care and “jump the line” so to speak - if you need an MRI, you go according to need, although you could pay for, say, physiotherapy.

So, how does it work? As far as medications, we are definatly better off I think. As far as what care and procedures are covered and what aren’t, there is usually a good balance struck. Occasionally there is some disagreement, for example whether the HPV vaccine should be offered - but the process is public and fairly responsive.

Wait times are a problem in some areas of care or in some geographical areas that lack doctors (although this latter in particular is also true in the US.) If you look at comparative wait times with Canada and the US, some are about the same and some are longer here. As an example, ER waits on average here are longer. However, waits for emergency and acute cases are about the same in both cases. If you need it done now, it will get done.

Getting nurses is a problem in both countries, and doctors as well, though less in the US. It tends to be a regional and urban rural problem. On average both doctors and nurses are paid less here, though they still have a very good standard of living - lots of doctors drive BMWs, despite what some say.

OTOH, bankruptcies due to medical bills are not common here, and people do not worry about being able to see a doctor, or going to the ER. Occasionally these are abused. There is a lot of freedom in where you get your care and you can see any doctor you choose (though shortages are a problem in some areas.)

As a general observation I would say most Canadians do not have the worry and stress over their health care that Americans have. Many Americans I know spend huge amounts of time dealing with insurance companies, figuring out co-pays, and wondering how they will manage if they lose a job, or have a disabled child, or whatever. And the access to better faster care in the US is restricted to those who can afford it - others will get emergency care and that is it. So to me saying wait times are better there can be misleading - they are better for those that have access.

You do occasionally get those like you mentioned who would, they say, prefer an American style system where they could be seen faster - they often say, “I have a right to been seen sooner than the system will allow” in a very indignant way. Well, I tend to take that with a grain of salt, because usually they mean a Canadian style “right to be seen faster” as in it is their right to have good health care. And the Canadian system means who is seenor treated first depends on triage decisions. If they want an American system with American speed, then the right to be seen quickly goes to those who can pay. So I feel they are trying to have it both ways.

Overall Canadians are very attached to our health care system, including health care staff - they feel strongly that it is their duty to care for all. Recently there was a reality show called “the greatest Canadian.” The winner was a provincial politician who was really not well known outside of the praries, Tommy Douglas, the “Father of Canadian Health Care.”

Thank you so much!! You are the first Canadian who has ever been able to explain it so well. It helps to get all the data and I appreciate your assistance.

God bless!!

 

[royal_archer]

I see your point and I concur, to a degree. I wouldn’t call religion a “right” - we have freedom of religion (or so we are told), we have free speech and I would consider that a right, the right to bear arms is obviously a right, but the right to health care goes beyond those. It is an issue that has to do with how a person is valued as a human being. It isn’t a legal right. It is a human right.

The right to keep and bear arms, speach, to be secure in your possessions, etc are also human rights.

Free medical care is provided to people who are in this country illegally. That is a federal mandate but the states have to pay for it. The reason illegal aliens are given medical care is that it is a basic human right and need. The same is true for every citizen in this country. It’s more important than free press, or the right to bear arms.

So you believe bandaids are more imprtant than freedom itself? Sorry, but here in America many of us value freedom much more than getting free stuff from the government. It is interesting that you would see such little value in freedom and it explains why some would be so willing to trample the rights of others for freebees from the government.

I’m probably not explaining it very well and I apologize for that. I don’t know what the answer is. It is so complicated: the disappearing middle class with its loss of income while the upper class becoming smaller yet with much higher wealth (and power), the loss of jobs to other countries (who have problems of their own), SES, baby boomers now retiring and the burden that places on those who have to pay for Social Security, the economy, the national debt, the inability of the government to make their programs work, the wars that are now going on, there are so many factors and I know I haven’t listed one percent.

Taking from the productive and bribing people to be unproductive does not help anything.

I don’t want a handout. I want to pay my own way and I will pay my own way as much as I am able. I know there are lazy people who don’t bother working and expect everything to be handed to them. I also know there are physicians and dentists and lawyers who work pro bono. I believe that I am very lucky. But I feel for people who are really hurt, who cannot work, who need help because they just cannot make it without help. In my state, because of budget cutbacks, the state health plan was closed. Period. No new people will be accepted unless they have a dependent. Also, approximately 30 percent of those already on the plan were kicked off. OK. Fine. Maybe it shouldn’t be handed to them. But it is handed to my neighbor, who has lived in this state for one year and pays no rent because he lives with his parents (at the age of 55). He has a son so he has received free knee replacement, free dentures, food stamps and yet he collects money under the table and doesn’t report it as income. There is so much fraud that it seems the people who really need help are just swallowed up.

I have seen the sentiment of “others are taking so I might as well” frequently here. Others stealing does not justify your stealing.

Maybe the answer is to just clean up the system - get rid of the fraud and make sure that only people who really need it have health care provided to them. I doubt that will happen because there will always be greedy people who “use” the system successfully. But it’s worth a shot (no pun intended).

The problem with a big government is that it is too impersonal and allows for fraud. Allowing people to keep their money and allow them to give it to the real needy will make it harder to commit fraud.

 

[monorail]

If what you are saying is true, why is the government bailing out companies? I’m not claiming to understand it. This is just an honest question and I hope that somebody can answer it for me.

In a true free market system, the ability of businesses to fail is at least as important as the ability of businesses to succeed. Failure forces companies to either improve the use of scarce resources with alternative uses, or to step aside to competitors who manage their resources better. When the government steps in and “saves” industries from going bankrupt, they frustrate the free market.

Why does the government do this? Because it has a very visible benefit (saving jobs in one industry) with hidden costs (misusing scarce resources, costing jobs in other industries, affecting taxpayers). What is politically popular and what is economically sound are often at odds with each other.

 

[kfinstad]

… they come out of school with at least that much debt, … most doctors I know invest the heck out of their money. … your post is a classic example of class warfare. Don’t like how much they make? Go back to school, … on your own while approaching your mid-30’s you’ll want to make more than $125k/yr to make up for lost time and money… .

Again, the question is the following: why do you think, $100,000 isn’t much money? Clearly, the doctors about whom you are writing, and claim to know, earn enough not only to invest, but also to pay-off their debt(s); additionally, I have no issues with what doctor’s earn–I am more ignorant about it, than anything else. The comment with respect to my maturity, and age, may be answered by viewing my profile; where my date of birth, is listed. If your doctor friends regard their education, and money spent for it, to be lost–creditors have been wasting people’s time, and employers have been wasting precious dollars on some people; who really ought to make better decisions with their lives, than losing both time and money; you think? Do I really have to explain the expression: “unmitigated gaul” to you and furthermore, why would I accuse you of something, about which I inquired, to avoid any false accusation, and was it not good of me, to at least indicate, something of my tone, in writing to you. Now, you have categorically established yourself with a case, of unmitigated gaul: I suggest, that you try to reason about some of these matters more deeply, to save yourself some future embarassment.

 

[Steave]

** I did go to school to become a doctor!!!

I was offered an opening in a medical school in the USA by a member of the admissions group, who was himself a physician. So I could have gone straight into medical school. I had already completed my premed training and I had volunteer experience in a general hospital , in a psychiatric hospital, and in a rehabilitation hospital.

Do you understand this??**

No nor do I belive a word of what you are saying