Health Care reform from a Doctors perspective

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The reason for my sarcasm is to, Get under your skin. There is no intellegent conversation in argumenets on forums like these sir.

You have no clue what person I am what backgroud I have or anything of that sort sir, there will always be people who do not agree, and one day it will all be solved.
 
The right to keep and bear arms, speach, to be secure in your possessions, etc are also human rights.
There are differences between the rights of citizens and what are called human rights. The right to bear arms is not a generally recognized human right, and in many places the right to be secure in your possesions wouldn’t be either.

It would depend on how you interpret them to some extent, for example, if the right to bear arms is an extention of the right to protect oneself - if so that is generally recognized as a human right. (But the right to “bear arms” is not a commonly accepted human right by any means.) Or is the right to security of property mean the right to use lethal force to protect property? In many places the answer to that would be no.
 
Do I really have to explain the expression: “unmitigated gaul” to you and furthermore, why would I accuse you of something, about which I inquired, to avoid any false accusation, and was it not good of me, to at least indicate, something of my tone, in writing to you. Now, you have categorically established yourself with a case, of unmitigated gaul: I suggest, that you try to reason about some of these matters more deeply, to save yourself some future embarassment.
Perhaps he would have been less confused had you said “unmittigated gall”. A Gaul is indeed an ancient inhabitant of France, as in “All of Gaul is divided into three parts”.
 
This is a joke, right? You can’t be serious here.
You think every manual labor job is low paying? When I was in the mortgage business, I was shocked at what some construction workers, bricklayers, welders, plumbers, etc made. Most made far more than I did.
Poor people do not have money trees growing in their yards. Most of them don’t even have yards. They do not have enough money to receive medical care. They are being denied a right which everyone should have.
SO the middle class do? So if the middle class are tredding water, we should also pick-up everyone elses slack? I’m all for giving to the needy, but it should be my decision where it goes, not Uncle Sam.
 
As far as doctors go, they can shell out a fair bit on education (though here at least university education is subsidized by government) and they also have a fair bit of responsibility.
Here, medical school is either paid for with a personal check or student loans.
Doctors are much less likely to make house-calls, or have on call hours.
I would venture to say that has more to do with a more moble society. The only areas of medicine that do not take call, that I know of are: family practice, dermatology, emergency medicine and pathology. All other take call.
Rural areas where these things may be necessary are having trouble getting doctors.
Some areas of the US have the same problem.
Certian types of medicine which demand more are suffering, such as family practice, emergency rooms cannot find doctors to cover shifts.
ER docs generally are not a problem finding for coverage, but there is a shortgage of family practice.
But I don’t think it is all about that - it is about a loss of connection to the meaning of practicing medicine. I saw an OB clinic recently which only attended its patients births between 9 and 5. (90% of there patients gave birth between those hours which is scary.) There is some kind of terrible disconnect in the expectations that doctors seem to have of what it will mean to be doctors in many cases.
Don’t get me started on the trends in Obstetrics. I think it’s ridiculous the way the do inductions and c-sects just to make their schedules easier.
There are differences between the rights of citizens and what are called human rights. The right to bear arms is not a generally recognized human right, and in many places the right to be secure in your possesions wouldn’t be either.

It would depend on how you interpret them to some extent, for example, if the right to bear arms is an extention of the right to protect oneself - if so that is generally recognized as a human right. (But the right to “bear arms” is not a commonly accepted human right by any means.) Or is the right to security of property mean the right to use lethal force to protect property? In many places the answer to that would be no.
Oh, but it is a human right. Like you stated we have a right to protect ourselves and others and to protect against tyranny. It’s sad so many countries take away this right or restrict it to the point it’s impotent.
 
Again, the question is the following: why do you think, $100,000 isn’t much money?
Again, it is because I think if you spend all of your 20’s and sometimes into your 30’s in school, you should get much more than $100k a year.
I have no issues with what doctor’s earn–I am more ignorant about it, than anything else.
Then why are we even discussing this if you have no issue with their pay?
The comment with respect to my maturity, and age, may be answered by viewing my profile;
I didn’t make any comment about your maturity or your age.
If your doctor friends regard their education, and money spent for it, to be lost–creditors have been wasting people’s time, and employers have been wasting precious dollars on some people; who really ought to make better decisions with their lives, than losing both time and money; you think?
No, I do not think that.
Do I really have to explain the expression: “unmitigated gaul” to you
Yes, you do. I understand that unmitigated means:
1 : not lessened : unrelieved
2 : being so definitely what is stated as to offer little chance of change or relief <an unmitigated disaster
>
and that gaul means:

**
: a Celt of ancient Gaul**
But I have no idea what it means when you put those two words together.
and furthermore, why would I accuse you of something, about which I inquired, to avoid any false accusation, and was it not good of me, to at least indicate, something of my tone, in writing to you.
What are you talking about?
Now, you have categorically established yourself with a case, of unmitigated gaul: I suggest, that you try to reason about some of these matters more deeply, to save yourself some future embarassment.
I think it is YOU who is embarassing them self; most especially since you do not know the difference between “gaul” and “gall.”

I have reasoned these matter deeply and do not agree with you. I have a better idea: why don’t you tell me what you do for a living and I will determine if you are being paid too much.
 
You think every manual labor job is low paying? When I was in the mortgage business, I was shocked at what some construction workers, bricklayers, welders, plumbers, etc made. Most made far more than I did.
First of all, I do not believe that every “manual labor job” is low paying. And I also do not believe that a physician is a “better” person than a person who collects garbage. There is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone doing any job as long as it is ethical and morally correct. I know some “manual labor jobs” pay well. I know that some people who work at manual labor make more than people that work at other jobs.

I was asking two questions. The figure seemed very high to me and I did not know if it was being presented as a joke or in all seriousness. Hence, my questions. That is all. I meant nothing more when I asked those questions.

SO the middle class do? So if the middle class are tredding water, we should also pick-up everyone elses slack? I’m all for giving to the needy, but it should be my decision where it goes, not Uncle Sam.

I have stated elsewhere in this thread (if you want the post number I will be happy to oblige you, but I will have to post it later) that the middle class is disappearing. One of the reasons the middle class is disappearing IMO is that it is being forced to pay for the medical needs of the poor. I’m sorry if I didn’t make that clear.

Should it be your decision for giving to the needy? Really? I agree with it shouldn’t be Uncle Sam. I have NEVER stated ANYWHERE that I believe a nationalized health care system or national health insurance is a good idea.

I didn’t check your religion but if you are a Christian I assume you want to be Christ-like, and if that is true, please read Matthew 25:31 through 25:46. I have literally turned my back on a starving woman and that was my choice. I decided that I should have control of my money and so I let a human being starve. I didn’t even call 911 for her. I was a hypocrite.

I was a hypocrite and I have to live with that knowledge for the rest of my life.
 
That is great. Unfortunately that would mean a lot less doctors and less access to health care.
That is true and you make a good point. Thank you.

All I can offer here is my own experience. I think that a lot of doctors who go into the field for money, and also unfortunately some of those who go into the field for love, just are not good physicians. At one time I had a condition that would have led to my death within months. I knew it was serious. I actually was aware that I was dying, which surprises me because I have never experienced that feeling before or since. I went to three physicians about this problem.

Not one of those physicians ever bothered to give me an exam. I was put off with stories such as “you have a cold.” I am telling the truth here. I was told that even though I was suffering from excruciating pain in my abdomen; pain that would cause me to double over. I couldn’t help it. It was awful. How can a physician (or anybody, for that matter) decide that excruciating abdominal pain is symptomatic of “a cold”? It doesn’t make sense.

I would have been very happy if I had never had to see those three physicians because they were lazy and they obviously didn’t care about my health because if they had they would have made at least some sort of attempt to find out what was wrong.

The fourth physician made a correct diagnosis within five minutes. He was a resident. He performed the surgery that saved my life.

If I could have gone straight to the fourth physician I would have been in a much better situation. But the first three physicians were still paid.

Unfortunately, this has happened to me twice (although the second time I wasn’t dying). I have had severe pain in one foot and had a physician look down at my foot and say “Your foot is perfect.” Uh huh. I guess he had x ray vision or some other sort of power that let him see all the various parts and pieces and sinews and tendons and nerves and bones and blood vessels that are in a human foot. He didn’t do his job but he was paid anyway.

I saw two more physicians. The second one misdiagnosed the problem and then told me about his history of STDs. I got out of there. The third one told me that he didn’t know what was wrong. Both physicians were paid.

The fourth physician correctly diagnosed the problem and performed the surgery, along with the third physician as her supervisor (the one who told me he didn’t know). The surgery was botched. So, again, I went to yet another physician. This one correctly diagnosed the problem and performed surgery which was successful.

The reason I’m providing these examples is that I would have been willing to pay for good care. I would have saved a lot of money if I hadn’t had to waste my time going to physicians who were so sloppy and careless. If I could have spent my money only on the physicians that provided decent care I would have no complaint.

Good, caring physicians should be reimbursed appropriately.
Bad, sloppy physicians shouldn’t be physicians in the first place.

And, finally, PHYSICIANS WHO TRY TO KILL THEIR PATIENTS SHOULD BE PROSECUTED AND IMPRISONED. I’m adding that because my Mom’s physician tried to kill her by prescribing a medication that he knew she was allergic to. His reason? He was tired of treating diabetics and wanted to go into liposuction. I will be happy to provide the details in a PM. This is not paranoid thinking, although I would tend to think that if I read this post. My entire family became aware of what was happening and my brother called the physician and gave him hell. I apologize for taking this off-topic. It’s obviously a sore spot for me because I loved my mother very much and it hurts and angers me to know that somebody she trusted for so many years decided she could be discarded like a piece of trash. And this somebody was a physician. And he was paid for his attempt to kill my mother.
 
I have reasoned these matter deeply and do not agree with you. I have a better idea: why don’t you tell me what you do for a living and I will determine if you are being paid too much.
I **do **hope he isn’t an English teacher!!:bigyikes:
 
The reason I’m providing these examples is that I would have been willing to pay for good care. I would have saved a lot of money if I hadn’t had to waste my time going to physicians who were so sloppy and careless. If I could have spent my money only on the physicians that provided decent care I would have no complaint.

.
Many of us would like to continue to be able to buy quality health care instead of being forced onto a government program where the doctors are as emotionally invested as the workers at the DMV.
 
There are differences between the rights of citizens and what are called human rights. The right to bear arms is not a generally recognized human right, and in many places the right to be secure in your possesions wouldn’t be either.

It would depend on how you interpret them to some extent, for example, if the right to bear arms is an extention of the right to protect oneself - if so that is generally recognized as a human right. (But the right to “bear arms” is not a commonly accepted human right by any means.) Or is the right to security of property mean the right to use lethal force to protect property? In many places the answer to that would be no.
Just because some backwards countries do not recognize human rights does not mean that they are not human rights.
 
There are differences between the rights of citizens and what are called human rights. The right to bear arms is not a generally recognized human right, and in many places the right to be secure in your possesions wouldn’t be either.
How are you defining human rights and citisens’ rights? What you are saying seems very strange to me.
It would depend on how you interpret them to some extent, for example, if the right to bear arms is an extention of the right to protect oneself - if so that is generally recognized as a human right. (But the right to “bear arms” is not a commonly accepted human right by any means.) Or is the right to security of property mean the right to use lethal force to protect property? In many places the answer to that would be no.
 
Many of us would like to continue to be able to buy quality health care instead of being forced onto a government program where the doctors are as emotionally invested as the workers at the DMV.
I don’t know the solution to this problem. I understand your frustration. I worry about what is going to happen.

I just don’t know what should be done. I just know that people are suffering.
 
Mr.Soldier thank you so much for serving our country it is because people like you that we have the freedom to talk on the internet as we are. God bless you.
Are you referring to me here? 🙂
 
I don’t know the solution to this problem. I understand your frustration. I worry about what is going to happen.

I just don’t know what should be done. I just know that people are suffering.
Unfortunately this health care debate has taken a “ready fire aim” approach. They are not looking at alternatives, they are using a perceived bad situation to justify their pre conceived “solution”.

It is like my son who wants a cell phone . He turns every thing around him into a justification for having a cell phone. Of course he doesn’t have to pay, nor will he be impacted if he abuses a phone.

In the real world, where we do not have infinate resources, we look at needs and determine the most efficient way of filling those needs. We don’t take solutions and try to find needs for them. The Democratic party is pushing for a greater take over of society and they are just exploiting the health care situation to achieve their goal. Doctors for the most part have a profit motive and are very supportive of a program which they feel will increase their revenue stream. Just like people in forestry want an increase in conservation spending and defense contractors want to emd the war so more mone is available for their products.
 
Unfortunately this health care debate has taken a “ready fire aim” approach. They are not looking at alternatives, they are using a perceived bad situation to justify their pre conceived “solution”.

It is like my son who wants a cell phone . He turns every thing around him into a justification for having a cell phone. Of course he doesn’t have to pay, nor will he be impacted if he abuses a phone.

In the real world, where we do not have infinate resources, we look at needs and determine the most efficient way of filling those needs. We don’t take solutions and try to find needs for them. The Democratic party is pushing for a greater take over of society and they are just exploiting the health care situation to achieve their goal. Doctors for the most part have a profit motive and are very supportive of a program which they feel will increase their revenue stream. Just like people in forestry want an increase in conservation spending and defense contractors want to emd the war so more mone is available for their products.
What you have written here has caused me to think hard. Maybe too many people in this country have just gotten so lazy that they want everything to be given to them. There are people in tenements that have lived there for several generations. I saw a show on TV a couple of years ago where teenagers were asked about their children. One teen, who appeared to be about 18, said he has six children. Six children!! When he was asked if he felt some sort of financial responsibility for the care of those children he replied “That’s the government’s job.” When asked why he didn’t use condoms he replied “Girls don’t like them things.” I’m certainly not saying that I approve of the use of condoms but it seems like people don’t want to take responsibility and even more than that, they do not think there is any reason for taking responsibility. The concept of “responsibility” is foreign to them. It’s been that way for too long.

I don’t want to pay for the medical expenses of a person who is badly injured because h/she didn’t bother to wear a seat belt. I don’t want to pay for a person who stuffs his/her face with food all day long and then becomes so obese that extreme medical care is required (I don’t mean people with endocrine disorders or people who are mentally ill or anything like that). And I really don’t want to pay for abortions unless it is necessary to save the mother’s life.

My Mom passed on a few years ago. She knew she was dying in the near future and she looked forward to it because she knew she would be in heaven. She told me something before she became basically incoherent. She told me that I need to take responsibility for myself. I didn’t quite understand her at the time but I’ve thought and thought about it. What exactly did she mean?

I think she meant the “Bank of Mom” will be closing soon and there will be no one left to provide the financial support she had been providing. Now that bank is closed.

My apologies to anyone whom I may have offended. I didn’t mean anything I wrote as an attack on anyone’s beliefs and/or opinions. I wish that we could really talk instead of trying to get our points across via computer. So much is lost in the translation and I have seen so much anger and defensiveness on these forums that sometimes I wonder why we even bother. We are all adults (or close to becoming adults) and we should be able somehow to have a respectful, meaningful discussion.

I think that from now on I am just going to read the posts and I will be reading them with great interest. I hope that I can learn. I’ve already learned a lot. Thank you!
 
LittleSoldier I think you have a good grasp of the situation. It drives me up a wall how irresponsible people are. I saw someone buying balloons, transformer napkins, transformer tableclothe, a custom cake, and bags of candy (obviously a boy’s birthday party supplies) using EBT (food stamps). I couldn’t help but think “Do you realize I just paid for your son’s birthday party?”

It’s awful the way people abuse the system. You’re right, we need to reduce fraud. Both of government programs and healthcare fraud. Once we fix those problems, IF there are still people actually in need, maybe then we should consider a greater overhaul of the system.
 
LittleSoldier I think you have a good grasp of the situation. It drives me up a wall how irresponsible people are. I saw someone buying balloons, transformer napkins, transformer tableclothe, a custom cake, and bags of candy (obviously a boy’s birthday party supplies) using EBT (food stamps). I couldn’t help but think “Do you realize I just paid for your son’s birthday party?”

It’s awful the way people abuse the system. You’re right, we need to reduce fraud. Both of government programs and healthcare fraud. Once we fix those problems, IF there are still people actually in need, maybe then we should consider a greater overhaul of the system.
You know, whomever that was may have seriously scrimped and done without for months to be able to afford some b-day party supplies for that child with the food stamps. That might not be the case, but you really have no idea.
 
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