Healthcare, taxes and abortion

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Monica4316

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I’ve been reading about the whole situation in the USA… I live in Canada, and here, apparently abortions are publically funded and included in healthcare that we have… so is contraception. So probably the money that we pay in taxes, goes towards that. My question is, are Catholics in Canada sinning just by paying taxes or having the healthcare? I don’t like the idea that the money we pay to the government in taxes is later used for abortions :mad: but what can we do about that, and what is our culpability here? any thoughts?

thanks!
 
I’ve been reading about the whole situation in the USA… I live in Canada, and here, apparently abortions are publically funded and included in healthcare that we have… so is contraception. So probably the money that we pay in taxes, goes towards that. My question is, are Catholics in Canada sinning just by paying taxes or having the healthcare? I don’t like the idea that the money we pay to the government in taxes is later used for abortions :mad: but what can we do about that, and what is our culpability here? any thoughts?

thanks!
I do not think you are at fault in thisn situation as long as there is no desire to support those things
 
You have an obligation to speak out against the legislation that allows this and vote in favor of it’s removal from the books, however, I don’t think there is anything else you can do about it.
 
If you like abortions than you will love Obamanomics.
 
I’ve been reading about the whole situation in the USA… I live in Canada, and here, apparently abortions are publically funded and included in healthcare that we have… so is contraception. So probably the money that we pay in taxes, goes towards that. My question is, are Catholics in Canada sinning just by paying taxes or having the healthcare? I don’t like the idea that the money we pay to the government in taxes is later used for abortions :mad: but what can we do about that, and what is our culpability here? any thoughts?

thanks!
No, Monica.

Work to change unjust uses of your tax money. But, you do not commit a sin by paying taxes.
 
No, Monica.

Work to change unjust uses of your tax money. But, you do not commit a sin by paying taxes.
How do we know that we don’t sin by paying taxes for murder?

Should I report my side business that is totally unreported so that those dollars can be used to kill?

It is a tough deal.
 
Abortion and contraception are objectively sinful. That cannot be changed. But our relationship to those objectively sinful acts has to be looked at.

Sin can be divided into two categories; formal and material.
  • Formal sin is when we know it is wrong and we actually commit the sin ourselves. A man who robs a bank is committing a formal sin. A doctor who commits abortion is committing a formal sin. A man who drinks to get drunk commits formal sin.
  • Material sin is when we ourselves don’t commit the sin but we contribute to it. A bartender who gives a man drinks knowing he is drunk is committing a material sin. A receptionist who takes appointments at an abortion clinic commits material sins.
Material sin is either proximate or remote. The bartender in the above example is proximate because he hadns the drink directly to the drunk. The woman who takes appointments in the above example is proximate because she helps to facilitate the abortion. They are directly involved and so are proximate. The owner of the building which is leased to the bar or abortion clinic however is remote - he is not directly involved, and in some circumstances may not even know that sinful acts are taking place in his building.

In the case of paying taxes for abortion and contraception, we who oppose these sinful acts and are forced to pay taxes which support them are guilty of remote material sin. This is not as bad as proximate material sin, and proximate material sin is not as bad as directly committing the sin AKA formal sin, but it is still a sin.

Yes, paying taxes to support abortion and contraception is a sin. It is remote material sin.

And this is where a good priest will look at culpability. We break the law if we don’t pay those taxes, the government takes away our house, puts us in jail, and our children may be homeless. In this case we are under duress and so we are less culpable. An upper middle class woman who drives an SUV and lives in a 4000 square foot home who decides she doesn’t want another child and has an abortion is more culpable than a poor teenager who was not taught properly and has an abortion as a last desperate act.

In the case of remote material sin, we are obligated to speak out, to try and right the wrong, and to do what is in our power to do, but the Church does not tell us that we are to break the law. The Church is not in the business of asking people to participate in civil disobedience. We are however, obligated to speak out whenever the subject comes up, as often as we can, and to work toward righting the wrong.

It is a difficult subject, and a priest should be trained to help us with this. That it why it is important to find a good priest who is trained in discerning these issues and ask about these things.

-Tim-
 
I’ve been reading about the whole situation in the USA… I live in Canada, and here, apparently abortions are publically funded and included in healthcare that we have… so is contraception. So probably the money that we pay in taxes, goes towards that. My question is, are Catholics in Canada sinning just by paying taxes or having the healthcare? I don’t like the idea that the money we pay to the government in taxes is later used for abortions :mad: but what can we do about that, and what is our culpability here? any thoughts?

thanks!
No, but the Canadian bishops should have opposed that rather than capitulating to a false claim of social justice. The evil of killing the unborn and forcing people to support intrinsic evils outweighs.any other perceived benefit.
 
This is more complicated than I thought…

Tim, thanks for the explanation… if it’s a remote material sin though, and we still choose to do it by paying taxes, doesn’t our knowledge of this increase culpability? what about a person who doesn’t have children or anyone dependent on them? but at the same time, breaking the law could also be a sin…

I guess the people who are safe from this sin are those who’s income is too small to pay taxes. There are still tax returns, but not paying taxes. 🙂 Since i’ve always been a student this has always been my situation, but I’m thinking about the future. I hope Canada changes this law.
 
I do not think you are at fault in thisn situation as long as there is no desire to support those things
Then why are Catholics in America at fault? How is it different? Government mandates are government mandates. By definition, they don’t give people a choice. Therefore culpability is on the shoulders of those who created and enforced the mandate. So how are the Employers in the U.S. not distanced from culpability like in other situations like buying from Walmart, or buying from Pepsi, or paying taxes in Canada? We are even allowed to use vaccines made illicitly due it being so remote in cooperation.

I agree that Catholics should lobby, petition, rally to get exception from the mandate. But if the mandate is mandatory in the end, then there is no choice in the matter just like with anything else. So I honestly don’t see the difference.
 
Abortion and contraception are objectively sinful. That cannot be changed. But our relationship to those objectively sinful acts has to be looked at.

Sin can be divided into two categories; formal and material.
  • Formal sin is when we know it is wrong and we actually commit the sin ourselves. A man who robs a bank is committing a formal sin. A doctor who commits abortion is committing a formal sin. A man who drinks to get drunk commits formal sin.
  • Material sin is when we ourselves don’t commit the sin but we contribute to it. A bartender who gives a man drinks knowing he is drunk is committing a material sin. A receptionist who takes appointments at an abortion clinic commits material sins.
Material sin is either proximate or remote. The bartender in the above example is proximate because he hadns the drink directly to the drunk. The woman who takes appointments in the above example is proximate because she helps to facilitate the abortion. They are directly involved and so are proximate. The owner of the building which is leased to the bar or abortion clinic however is remote - he is not directly involved, and in some circumstances may not even know that sinful acts are taking place in his building.

In the case of paying taxes for abortion and contraception, we who oppose these sinful acts and are forced to pay taxes which support them are guilty of remote material sin. This is not as bad as proximate material sin, and proximate material sin is not as bad as directly committing the sin AKA formal sin, but it is still a sin.

Yes, paying taxes to support abortion and contraception is a sin. It is remote material sin.

And this is where a good priest will look at culpability. We break the law if we don’t pay those taxes, the government takes away our house, puts us in jail, and our children may be homeless. In this case we are under duress and so we are less culpable. An upper middle class woman who drives an SUV and lives in a 4000 square foot home who decides she doesn’t want another child and has an abortion is more culpable than a poor teenager who was not taught properly and has an abortion as a last desperate act.

In the case of remote material sin, we are obligated to speak out, to try and right the wrong, and to do what is in our power to do, but the Church does not tell us that we are to break the law. The Church is not in the business of asking people to participate in civil disobedience. We are however, obligated to speak out whenever the subject comes up, as often as we can, and to work toward righting the wrong.

It is a difficult subject, and a priest should be trained to help us with this. That it why it is important to find a good priest who is trained in discerning these issues and ask about these things.

-Tim-
That’s an excellent post Tim. Catholics opposed to the mandate should fight it to the bitter end, but in the end, if it’s required, they have no choice and are not culpable. But if enough Catholics make enough noise, they may not have to deal with it at all.
 
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