Heard a whopper tonight

[Air_Force_1]

I was in the store tonight when I over heard two gentlemen talking. One of them was from the local Baptist church trying to evangelize the other. He stated a lot of the standard anti-Catholic things, such as idolatry. But the one that caught my attention was that infant Baptism was evil and that it was started by the Roman Empire as a way to tax people from birth because once a person was Baptized they were put in the census. Now I was raised Baptist and I had never heard such a thing.

I wanted to jump, however I am still a new Catholic and I have never had an Apologetic conversation with a complete stranger and this man is very entrenched in his doctrine. I wanted to tell the man why he is wrong but I did not think I was ready…I didn’t want him to twist things around in front of the young man so I did not interject myself in the conversation.

I waited outside the store for the young man to come out. He told me that he was raised in the church of Christ. I told him that I was once Baptist and to not go down that road. I briefly told him why I became Catholic. He stated that he is studying Christianity very intently so I suggested he read the early Church Fathers. The man from the Baptist church tried very hard to get the young man to come to his church. When I talked to the young man I did not bring up attending Mass, however, he asked me about when Mass was held. I told him and invited him to come. He said he might.

So I guess I went about things the right way. I just wanted to tell everyone of you about the infant Baptism = paying taxes thing…they really are grasping at straws trying to deny the truth about the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, the CHURCH founded by JESUS CHRIST himself, built upon the ROCK, PETER.

 

[BootCampJr]

Nice going, you apologetic, you

 

[CentralFLJames]

The calumny the Church must suffer at the tongues of ignorant men knows no bounds. Every time one of these anti-Catholics say something like this they are just storing up more and more wrath for their day of judgement. These are the same nut jobs who imagine they can’t sin anymore since “they are saved” and are exempt from it. God help them is all I can say.

Kudos to you for taking the time to wait around and give the other man an opportunity to hear the truth.

As for the charge about the tax roles linked to baptismal certificates I can’t help but laugh at the hypocrisy. This guy is going to a church that has filed itself with the state just so it can operate as a not-for-profit and tax-free corporation. It is is actively recruiting members and doing altar calls (of any age) and placing these names into the church register so the pastor can have an accurate census on who is a member of their congregation. These will in turn be personally approached or sent letters from their preacher asking for some financial commitment to fund doing “God’s work”. He will probably explain that it is biblical to “tithe” (10% of one’s income) for The Lord but “give at least whatever you can until your new prosperity that will flow out of your salvation let’s you give more” . Of course the preacher is either on preaching contract or is a salaried employee or is a direct officer in that corporation (which itself is often set up as a franchise and must also extract a franchise-fee to pay to the up-line corporate office) and is either incentivized or financially motivated to bring in more dollar volume through recruitment.

So, I would love to hear this guy’s explanation for how having a Church Roster of those saved-and-tithing is more righteous than the Catholic Church having baptismal records? The Catholic Church kept baptismal records predominantly for ecclesial purposes (marriages and Catholic funerals required proof of baptism) but did not turn these over to the state except for individual cases of law where identity proof was necessary. In fact they are extremely useful to the laity and we still use them often in legal matters. Further in the time perios in question, The Church, being one of the few organizations with educated leaders who could actually read and write was often more organized than most of the secular governmental functions.

James

 

[Saintlucy]

Nice going, you apologetic, you

I’m a cradle Catholic and I’m very proud of you.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I was in the store tonight when I over heard two gentlemen talking. One of them was from the local Baptist church trying to evangelize the other. He stated a lot of the standard anti-Catholic things, such as idolatry. But the one that caught my attention was that infant Baptism was evil and that it was started by the Roman Empire as a way to tax people from birth because once a person was Baptized they were put in the census. Now I was raised Baptist and I had never heard such a thing.

I wanted to jump, however I am still a new Catholic and I have never had an Apologetic conversation with a complete stranger and this man is very entrenched in his doctrine. I wanted to tell the man why he is wrong but I did not think I was ready…I didn’t want him to twist things around in front of the young man so I did not interject myself in the conversation.

I waited outside the store for the young man to come out. He told me that he was raised in the church of Christ. I told him that I was once Baptist and to not go down that road. I briefly told him why I became Catholic. He stated that he is studying Christianity very intently so I suggested he read the early Church Fathers. The man from the Baptist church tried very hard to get the young man to come to his church. When I talked to the young man I did not bring up attending Mass, however, he asked me about when Mass was held. I told him and invited him to come. He said he might.

So I guess I went about things the right way. I just wanted to tell everyone of you about the infant Baptism = paying taxes thing…they really are grasping at straws trying to deny the truth about the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, the CHURCH founded by JESUS CHRIST himself, built upon the ROCK, PETER.

It is always better to be Invitational and not Confrontational whenever possible. Also explaining to others why you believe what you believe works much better than explaining why someone else believes something else.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I was in the store tonight when I over heard two gentlemen talking. One of them was from the local Baptist church trying to evangelize the other. He stated a lot of the standard anti-Catholic things, such as idolatry. But the one that caught my attention was that infant Baptism was evil and that it was started by the Roman Empire as a way to tax people from birth because once a person was Baptized they were put in the census. Now I was raised Baptist and I had never heard such a thing.

I wanted to jump, however I am still a new Catholic and I have never had an Apologetic conversation with a complete stranger and this man is very entrenched in his doctrine. I wanted to tell the man why he is wrong but I did not think I was ready…I didn’t want him to twist things around in front of the young man so I did not interject myself in the conversation.

I waited outside the store for the young man to come out. He told me that he was raised in the church of Christ. I told him that I was once Baptist and to not go down that road. I briefly told him why I became Catholic. He stated that he is studying Christianity very intently so I suggested he read the early Church Fathers. The man from the Baptist church tried very hard to get the young man to come to his church. When I talked to the young man I did not bring up attending Mass, however, he asked me about when Mass was held. I told him and invited him to come. He said he might.

So I guess I went about things the right way. I just wanted to tell everyone of you about the infant Baptism = paying taxes thing…they really are grasping at straws trying to deny the truth about the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, the CHURCH founded by JESUS CHRIST himself, built upon the ROCK, PETER.

All I can say is:
(1) You were meant to be there!
and (2) good job!

You really helped this person.

 

[Soutane]

I was in the store tonight when I over heard two gentlemen talking. One of them was from the local Baptist church trying to evangelize the other. He stated a lot of the standard anti-Catholic things, such as idolatry. But the one that caught my attention was that infant Baptism was evil and that it was started by the Roman Empire as a way to tax people from birth because once a person was Baptized they were put in the census. Now I was raised Baptist and I had never heard such a thing.

I wanted to jump, however I am still a new Catholic and I have never had an Apologetic conversation with a complete stranger and this man is very entrenched in his doctrine. I wanted to tell the man why he is wrong but I did not think I was ready…I didn’t want him to twist things around in front of the young man so I did not interject myself in the conversation.

I waited outside the store for the young man to come out. He told me that he was raised in the church of Christ. I told him that I was once Baptist and to not go down that road. I briefly told him why I became Catholic. He stated that he is studying Christianity very intently so I suggested he read the early Church Fathers. The man from the Baptist church tried very hard to get the young man to come to his church. When I talked to the young man I did not bring up attending Mass, however, he asked me about when Mass was held. I told him and invited him to come. He said he might.

So I guess I went about things the right way. I just wanted to tell everyone of you about the infant Baptism = paying taxes thing…they really are grasping at straws trying to deny the truth about the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, the CHURCH founded by JESUS CHRIST himself, built upon the ROCK, PETER.

Good job!!!ST Peter is proud of you-you have really heeded his words regarding explanation of the Faith.

 

[Fidelis]

Whatever, in a loving positive way, opens the door for the Holy Spirit.

Ya done good!

 

[Catholic1954]

Excellent! At the very least you were able to counter the mis-information from the Baptist man and at the very best, you will see that young man at the next Mass!!

 

[Air_Force_1]

Thank you all for your friendly replies. Let us all pray for our seperated brothers and sisters. God bless.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Good job! And you’re right, that is a whopper. Here are some scriptures from an awesome website that support the Catholic position on infant baptism. Note that in reference to the baptism of Lydia’s household that the Greek word for household is “oikos” which is a household with infants and children. As you probably know, if you are going to have any discussions with a Baptist about any number of topics, you better know your scripture or they won’t even listen. My bet is that the baptist you encountered knew the scripture about Lydia, but did not know anything about the Greek word “oikos”. That is the problem with random personal interpretation of scripture by Joe Layperson. They often don’t understand the full meaning of scripture because they don’t understand semantics, context, etc-- but, I suppose, that is a point for another thread…

Anyway, if you haven’t seen the site I posted take some time to look it over- it is full of scripture and it is an awesome tool for stating a rock solid case for various Catholic beliefs.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I was in the store tonight when I over heard two gentlemen talking. One of them was from the local Baptist church trying to evangelize the other. He stated a lot of the standard anti-Catholic things, such as idolatry. But the one that caught my attention was that infant Baptism was evil

That I’ve heard​

and that it was started by the Roman Empire as a way to tax people from birth because once a person was Baptized they were put in the census. Now I was raised Baptist and I had never heard such a thing.

That, I’ve never heard either.​

I wanted to jump, however I am still a new Catholic and I have never had an Apologetic conversation with a complete stranger and this man is very entrenched in his doctrine. I wanted to tell the man why he is wrong but I did not think I was ready…I didn’t want him to twist things around in front of the young man so I did not interject myself in the conversation.

I waited outside the store for the young man to come out. He told me that he was raised in the church of Christ. I told him that I was once Baptist and to not go down that road. I briefly told him why I became Catholic. He stated that he is studying Christianity very intently so I suggested he read the early Church Fathers. The man from the Baptist church tried very hard to get the young man to come to his church. When I talked to the young man I did not bring up attending Mass, however, he asked me about when Mass was held. I told him and invited him to come. He said he might.

So I guess I went about things the right way. I just wanted to tell everyone of you about the infant Baptism = paying taxes thing…they really are grasping at straws trying to deny the truth about the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, the CHURCH founded by JESUS CHRIST himself, built upon the ROCK, PETER.

Telling people they are wrong is not a terribly good idea ​

 

[Air_Force_1]

Good job! And you’re right, that is a whopper. Here are some scriptures from an awesome website that support the Catholic position on infant baptism. Note that in reference to the baptism of Lydia’s household that the Greek word for household is “oikos” which is a household with infants and children. As you probably know, if you are going to have any discussions with a Baptist about any number of topics, you better know your scripture or they won’t even listen. My bet is that the baptist you encountered knew the scripture about Lydia, but did not know anything about the Greek word “oikos”. That is the problem with random personal interpretation of scripture by Joe Layperson. They often don’t understand the full meaning of scripture because they don’t understand semantics, context, etc-- but, I suppose, that is a point for another thread…

Anyway, if you haven’t seen the site I posted take some time to look it over- it is full of scripture and it is an awesome tool for stating a rock solid case for various Catholic beliefs.

Prayer Warrior,

Thanks for the great web site. I know I will be using it alot.

 

[Pax]

Air Force 1,

Good job. The next time you run into the baptist evangelist, you can have a chat with him too. Always say a little prayer to the Holy Spirit for guidance before and during your conversations with non-Catholics.

God bless.

 

[Church_Militant]

Air Force 1,

Good job. The next time you run into the baptist evangelist, you can have a chat with him too. Always say a little prayer to the Holy Spirit for guidance before and during your conversations with non-Catholics.

God bless.

I agree. You did well.
The Case For Infant Baptism

That’s my own blog article on infant baptism.

Keep on rockin!

 

[ncgolf]

So I guess I went about things the right way. I just wanted to tell everyone of you about the infant Baptism = paying taxes thing…they really are grasping at straws trying to deny the truth about the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, the CHURCH founded by JESUS CHRIST himself, built upon the ROCK, PETER.

It sounds like you opened the door … but didn’t push him … I think that is good … the HS will do the prodding … and sometimes confrontation just shuts the door.

Let others do the ranting … and you let yourself be a beacon.

Awesome job!

 

[SingleMomMonica]

I was in the store tonight when I over heard two gentlemen talking. One of them was from the local Baptist church trying to evangelize the other. He stated a lot of the standard anti-Catholic things, such as idolatry. But the one that caught my attention was that infant Baptism was evil and that it was started by the Roman Empire as a way to tax people from birth because once a person was Baptized they were put in the census. Now I was raised Baptist and I had never heard such a thing.

I wanted to jump, however I am still a new Catholic and I have never had an Apologetic conversation with a complete stranger and this man is very entrenched in his doctrine. I wanted to tell the man why he is wrong but I did not think I was ready…I didn’t want him to twist things around in front of the young man so I did not interject myself in the conversation.

I waited outside the store for the young man to come out. He told me that he was raised in the church of Christ. I told him that I was once Baptist and to not go down that road. I briefly told him why I became Catholic. He stated that he is studying Christianity very intently so I suggested he read the early Church Fathers. The man from the Baptist church tried very hard to get the young man to come to his church. When I talked to the young man I did not bring up attending Mass, however, he asked me about when Mass was held. I told him and invited him to come. He said he might.

So I guess I went about things the right way. I just wanted to tell everyone of you about the infant Baptism = paying taxes thing…they really are grasping at straws trying to deny the truth about the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, the CHURCH founded by JESUS CHRIST himself, built upon the ROCK, PETER.

Great job on handling the situation! You have planted a wonderful seed with that young man and perhaps you’ll begin seeing him at Mass!

Now that you’re here and will learn wonderful agruments for the Baptist next time you’ll be ready to wait for him outside!

 

[PJM]

I was in the store tonight when I over heard two gentlemen talking. One of them was from the local Baptist church trying to evangelize the other. He stated a lot of the standard anti-Catholic things, such as idolatry. But the one that caught my attention was that infant Baptism was evil and that it was started by the Roman Empire as a way to tax people from birth because once a person was Baptized they were put in the census. Now I was raised Baptist and I had never heard such a thing.

I wanted to jump, however I am still a new Catholic and I have never had an Apologetic conversation with a complete stranger and this man is very entrenched in his doctrine. I wanted to tell the man why he is wrong but I did not think I was ready…I didn’t want him to twist things around in front of the young man so I did not interject myself in the conversation.

I waited outside the store for the young man to come out. He told me that he was raised in the church of Christ. I told him that I was once Baptist and to not go down that road. I briefly told him why I became Catholic. He stated that he is studying Christianity very intently so I suggested he read the early Church Fathers. The man from the Baptist church tried very hard to get the young man to come to his church. When I talked to the young man I did not bring up attending Mass, however, he asked me about when Mass was held. I told him and invited him to come. He said he might.

So I guess I went about things the right way. I just wanted to tell everyone of you about the infant Baptism = paying taxes thing…they really are grasping at straws trying to deny the truth about the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, the CHURCH founded by JESUS CHRIST himself, built upon the ROCK, PETER.

Wecome HOME dear friend of Christ.

Jesus was persecuted, and so shall we all be

You did real GOOD

When others don’t have truth on their side, they have ti invent something. Likely this is a story he was told and he was just spreading HIS TRUTH?

That is why, you need to continue to learn our Beautiful Catholic Faith. Two good places to start are a Good Catholic Bible and the Catecheism of the Catholic Church.

May God contine to bless and use you,

Love and prayers,

 

[selah603]

What a brave act! It isn’t easy to put ourselves “out there” sometimes. It is much easer to chat about it in forums!!
Sometimes I think it is best to do as St Francis said “Preach the gospel at all times, only use words when necessary” (pardon me if I dont have that*** exactly ***right).

But there are those times when we are called to be His witnesses. Those in the baptist faith are constantly urged to witness, witness, witness. I know because I was there at one time and responded to that command without being led by the Holy Spirit. I ended up alienated a lot of friends needless to say!

Keep up the great work! Welcome into this wonderful gift that Our Lord gave us–His Church!

Prayer warrior–thank you for the link at that great website. I plan on using it frequently in my writing!

Pam
Catholic 2000 (woohoo!)

 

[Agripa]

I was in the store tonight when I over heard two gentlemen talking. One of them was from the local Baptist church trying to evangelize the other. He stated a lot of the standard anti-Catholic things, such as idolatry. But the one that caught my attention was that infant Baptism was evil and that it was started by the Roman Empire as a way to tax people from birth because once a person was Baptized they were put in the census. Now I was raised Baptist and I had never heard such a thing.

I wanted to jump, however I am still a new Catholic and I have never had an Apologetic conversation with a complete stranger and this man is very entrenched in his doctrine. I wanted to tell the man why he is wrong but I did not think I was ready…I didn’t want him to twist things around in front of the young man so I did not interject myself in the conversation.

I waited outside the store for the young man to come out. He told me that he was raised in the church of Christ. I told him that I was once Baptist and to not go down that road. I briefly told him why I became Catholic. He stated that he is studying Christianity very intently so I suggested he read the early Church Fathers. The man from the Baptist church tried very hard to get the young man to come to his church. When I talked to the young man I did not bring up attending Mass, however, he asked me about when Mass was held. I told him and invited him to come. He said he might.

So I guess I went about things the right way. I just wanted to tell everyone of you about the infant Baptism = paying taxes thing…they really are grasping at straws trying to deny the truth about the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, the CHURCH founded by JESUS CHRIST himself, built upon the ROCK, PETER.

While competition for members can often encourage some prostelitizers to say untruths about other religions, the thing to to understand is that your decision to join any particular religion is a matter of faith and your personal beliefs.

Be happy in the faith you have chosen, but also do your homework. I was born into the Roman Catholic tradition and educated by Jesuits who taught me not only early church history, but Western European history as well. If you have an open mind, take a close look at two particular Roman Emporers, Constantine and later, Justinian. You might be surprised at what you discover about the foundings of the Roman Catholic faith.

Hopefully too you will avoid any notion that prostelizers are doomed to some sort of judgement for their particular understandings or misunderstndings of the Roman tradition.