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twinc
Guest
where are these located or to be found - does anyone contain the other three - if we save or lose one do we save or lose the other three - twinc
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Acapiteadcalcem
Guest
Hi twinc;
‘Heart’ is a metaphor for human spirit, especially the power to love. ‘Spirit’ itself can refer to something ontological (that is, real) or metaphorical (as in, “she’s got great spirit”).
‘Mind’ is the faculty by which we reason and know; it is a power of the soul and so contained by it.
Soul and spirit are often used interchangeably, but in Catholic theology there is both vegetative soul (which lower animals and plants have) and rational soul (which is spirit, and which humans have.) Angels also are ‘spirit’ and God is too, but analogically since it exceeds any understanding we have of ‘spirit’.
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Acapiteadcalcem
Guest
I should also add, in response to your question, that to lose one is to lose them all, but in different senses.
Soul or spirit can never be destroyed, since God’s word is eternal. God could, but won’t, snuff us out of existence. Souls can be ‘lost’ in the sense of eternal damnation, but not in the sense of ‘being’ or ‘existing’.
‘Heart’ can be lost in the sense that we can stop loving, which, if it is an obstinate state, will lead to the loss of soul in the sense mentioned above.
We can lose ‘mind’ metaphorically through illness (such as dementia) but not ontologically (in reality, since it is a permanent faculty of the rational soul).
Soul or spirit can never be destroyed, since God’s word is eternal. God could, but won’t, snuff us out of existence. Souls can be ‘lost’ in the sense of eternal damnation, but not in the sense of ‘being’ or ‘existing’.
‘Heart’ can be lost in the sense that we can stop loving, which, if it is an obstinate state, will lead to the loss of soul in the sense mentioned above.
We can lose ‘mind’ metaphorically through illness (such as dementia) but not ontologically (in reality, since it is a permanent faculty of the rational soul).
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
That’s how some use it today. Though there was a time that the heart was thought to be the “seat of the human mind” and the statements we see as being metaphorical now once had very literal interpretations. It’s among statements like “the ends/edges of the earth” that had a literal meaning under the view that the earth was flat but is still used under some metaphorical context today.
I can understand how one may draw this conclusion given that the beat of the heart is influenced by ones emotional state. Of course this was all before there was knowledge of the influence that the brain had on behaviour and before some one exchanged the heart they had at birth with one from another person and demonstrated that their mind did not follow that exchange.
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twinc
Guest
so we see the variety of answers and conclusions and confusion - it seems that all these are concepts which imho can only arise in and be covered by ? ----- twinc
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
You missed the body.
Your Body is what you see and it is like any other animal, birth, reproduction, death.
Your Soul or Spirit it is you. You are spiritual. After the death of the body, you go on living forever.
Hearts and minds are metaphor for feelings and inteligence.
You put your mind in the head and your feelings in the heart. Youv’e got put them somewhere and that is what you feel it looks like. You do not say that you love with your head (but you do!) not that you think with your feet (but the footballers (the real ones not the american soccers) think with the feet).
Strange no?
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twinc
Guest
who or what is this you that sees a body and knows about soul and spirit and has feelings and intelligence and a head and feet and a body etc - twinc
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Abba
Guest
Hello twinc,
The heart is the heart of your body that pumps the blood through your body or a metaphor to express feelings like " I love you from the bottom of my heart" .
The Mind as it has already been noted is a faculty of the soul.
**The body **is like the home of The Soul. The Soul gives life to the body. When the soul leaves the body the body starts to rut. The body deteriorates but the soul is eternal. God will give us a glorified body after Judgement Day if we make it to heaven.
In Genesis we read:
Genesis 2:7
then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and** breathed into his nostrils the breath of life**, and the man became a living creature. The breath of life is the soul. God made us in his image and likeness and he did not make animals like that and so our soul is spiritual versus the souls of animals.
The Spirit is like the light of the soul and it is the presence of the Holy Spirit in us which we nourish with the Sacrament but it is not a separate spirit from the spiritual soul (versus animal soul) that we have but it is different as Saint Teresa of Avila notes. We speak of animation, I don’t know how yo translate that to English, but like we say that she has a broken spirit meaning she feels down and out, this could be a reflection of the Spirit but not necessarily.
Catholic Encyclopedia:
Whatever doctrine one may hold concerning the nature of the human soul and its relations to the organism, the four following points are beyond the possibility of doubt.
“Consciousness is the scene of incessant change; its processes appear, now in one sequence now in another; and, normally, the duration of each is brief.
All do not present the same general features, nor affect consciousness in the same manner. They differ on account both of their characters as manifested in consciousness, and of the organ, either external or internal, on which their appearance depends. Yet the features they have in common under this twofold aspect, together with their differences, make it possible and necessary to group mental states in certain more or less comprehensive classes.
There is more in the mind than is actually manifested in consciousness; there are latent images, ideas, and feelings, which under given conditions emerge and are recognized even after a considerable interval of time. By reason of their innate or acquired aptitudes, minds differ in capacity or power. Hence, even if it were possible for two minds to experience processes perfectly similar, they would nevertheless differ greatly because one is capable of experiences impossible to the other.
Notwithstanding their variety and their intermittent character, these processes belong to one and the same conscious subject; they are all referred naturally and spontaneously to the self or me”.newadvent.org/cathen/05749a.htm
The soul is “you”.
Peace,
Abba
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Your sentence is a non-sentence. Big Confusion in your head…
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John_Russell_Jr
Guest
… my dear friend ,
… just my own thoughts that may interest on this if you like : man is composed of heart , mind and soul – though they are 3 they are 1 , same as god , but further : gods will which i call the equilibrium of god is the spiritual force or driving forver behind god , but obviously not yet another person of the blessed trinity , but like god man has a spiritual force or driving force behind him which is his body , so man is so truly made in the image and likeness of god , but not only in this way , the analogies and likenesses of types are seemingly endless …
… may god bless and love you
,… john …
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twinc
Guest
how can a sentence be and not be - it seems the real confusion is in your head - anyway who is this your that owns a head ? - twinc
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twinc
Guest
so you say the soul is “you” - but who knows or says this - who knows what a soul is or where it is or might be or could be etc - who or what knows - mind how you answer - is it possible that somewhere,somehow,there is a flower born to bloom unseen and waste its sweetness on the desert air since there is no one there - twincHello twinc,
The heart is the heart of your body that pumps the blood through your body or a metaphor to express feelings like " I love you from the bottom of my heart" .
The Mind as it has already been noted is a faculty of the soul.
**The body **is like the home of The Soul. The Soul gives life to the body. When the soul leaves the body the body starts to rut. The body deteriorates but the soul is eternal. God will give us a glorified body after Judgement Day if we make it to heaven.
In Genesis we read:
Genesis 2:7
then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and** breathed into his nostrils the breath of life**, and the man became a living creature. The breath of life is the soul. God made us in his image and likeness and he did not make animals like that and so our soul is spiritual versus the souls of animals.
The Spirit is like the light of the soul and it is the presence of the Holy Spirit in us which we nourish with the Sacrament but it is not a separate spirit from the spiritual soul (versus animal soul) that we have but it is different as Saint Teresa of Avila notes. We speak of animation, I don’t know how yo translate that to English, but like we say that she has a broken spirit meaning she feels down and out, this could be a reflection of the Spirit but not necessarily.
Catholic Encyclopedia:
Whatever doctrine one may hold concerning the nature of the human soul and its relations to the organism, the four following points are beyond the possibility of doubt.
“Consciousness is the scene of incessant change; its processes appear, now in one sequence now in another; and, normally, the duration of each is brief.
All do not present the same general features, nor affect consciousness in the same manner. They differ on account both of their characters as manifested in consciousness, and of the organ, either external or internal, on which their appearance depends. Yet the features they have in common under this twofold aspect, together with their differences, make it possible and necessary to group mental states in certain more or less comprehensive classes.
There is more in the mind than is actually manifested in consciousness; there are latent images, ideas, and feelings, which under given conditions emerge and are recognized even after a considerable interval of time. By reason of their innate or acquired aptitudes, minds differ in capacity or power. Hence, even if it were possible for two minds to experience processes perfectly similar, they would nevertheless differ greatly because one is capable of experiences impossible to the other.
Notwithstanding their variety and their intermittent character, these processes belong to one and the same conscious subject; they are all referred naturally and spontaneously to the self or me”.newadvent.org/cathen/05749a.htm
The soul is “you”.
Peace,
Abba
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Abba
Guest
Hello twinc,
I am sure there are a lot of flowers that have bloomed and rut and no human being ever saw them nor smelled there sweetness. This world exists and it is not just my imagination nor a mirage. **God really did create this world **and it exist a part from me.There are scorpions in the dessert right now, alive and well and snakes too and rather they encounter humans or not - they still exist.
You may want to read the book of Genesis. Here is the first chapter:
In the(A) beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was(B) without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3And God said,(C) “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
6And God said,(D) “Let there be an expanse[a] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7And God made** the expanse and(E) separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were(F) above the expanse. And it was so. 8And God called the expanse Heaven.[c] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9And God said,(G) “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11And God said,(H) “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.
14And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for(I) signs and for(J) seasons,[f] and for days and years, 15and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16And God(K) made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18to(L) rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
20And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds[g] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21So(M) God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22And God blessed them, saying,(N) “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
24And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26Then God said,(O) “Let us make man[h] in our image,(P) after our likeness. And(Q) let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
(R) male and female he created them.
28And God blessed them. And God said to them,(S) “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit.(T) You shall have them for food. 30And(U) to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31(V) And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.**
As far is the soul being you, well, you want to consider the faculties of the soul and then consider the internal presence of self that you experience and welcome to being conscious of your soul. The soul is that inner ‘you’ that constitutes your person (with the body). Those deep and private thoughts you have that you may try to share with another person verbally or otherwise are arising from your soul. Again, the soul is what gives life to the body and what in you longs for God.
So, this world really does exist and I do too, Praise be to God.
Gotta go, just got a call from the hospital. My father is agonizing. Please pray for his soul.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Boy, you do not expect me to explain everything to every question you put!! Dont you know how to study?
Study if you want, sentences and non-sentences:
alturl.com/4pnpp
Yes, I accept that my head is confusing. Thanks to God, I do not want to be other way.
As for your last question, study (if you want! ) : Cogito, ergo sum.
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Abba
Guest
I was thinking about this post. I am not exactly correct here. Perhaps, some of the experts did not want to correct me as my father just passed away. I am at peace with his death - now he knows our faith is true and he has seen Our King and Lord Jesus Christ. May he rest in peace. Please pray for his soul.
Yes, so, as I was saying - I am not totally correct here. I was recalling what Paul wrote about the laws being written in our hearts and Mary’ heart etc… and I asked myself; is it only a metaphor?
Still researching, just thought I drop in and let you know what I am wondering. I have found so far that it is not just a metaphor but a symbol…still studying…
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