Heaven and Eternal life

[Fidei]

are they the same? or totally different?

I know the JW’s definition for heaven is the Place for the “anointed class” while Eternal life belongs to us (either JW or non-JW who are pure of heart) here on the “new earth”. That got me stumped when they say verses regarding eternal life and a new earth and "restoring man’s condition to perfect “eternal state”. (They dont believe that ALL go to heaven, they believe, when we die, there is no soul, thus no heaven/purgatory/hell but are resurrected after Judgment day)

Through time, i wondered and thought to myself, what is the Church’s understanding of Eternal life? i began to draw conclusions saying “maybe the dead all go to heaven or hell for the mean time, but are judged again (The living and the dead) during Armageddon to resurrect again to live on the new earth as Adam and Eve in a sinless state??”

may i ask what really is this eternal life the bible talks about? What is the church teaching regarding “the last things”?

 

[AmericanJosiah]

Just MY fallible/accountable understanding…

“Eternal life” is what we HAVE (right here, right now) as a result of justification - we have passed from death to life, and this life is immune from death, it is for all eternity.

“Heaven” is usually a place, of God, the Angels, and all his saints. For US, heaven is still in our future.

.

 

[Able]

Just MY fallible/accountable understanding…

“Eternal life” is what we HAVE (right here, right now) as a result of justification - we have passed from death to life, and this life is immune from death, it is for all eternity.

“Heaven” is usually a place, of God, the Angels, and all his saints. For US, heaven is still in our future.

.

Good post!

 

[NHInsider]

are they the same? or totally different?

I know the JW’s definition for heaven is the Place for the “anointed class” while Eternal life belongs to us (either JW or non-JW who are pure of heart) here on the “new earth”. That got me stumped when they say verses regarding eternal life and a new earth and "restoring man’s condition to perfect “eternal state”. (They dont believe that ALL go to heaven, they believe, when we die, there is no soul, thus no heaven/purgatory/hell but are resurrected after Judgment day)

Through time, i wondered and thought to myself, what is the Church’s understanding of Eternal life? i began to draw conclusions saying “maybe the dead all go to heaven or hell for the mean time, but are judged again (The living and the dead) during Armageddon to resurrect again to live on the new earth as Adam and Eve in a sinless state??”

may i ask what really is this eternal life the bible talks about? What is the church teaching regarding “the last things”?

The Church’s teaching will be a good place to start, actually, the catechism is pretty straightforward, considering the complexity of the subject.

 

[Fidei]

Just MY fallible/accountable understanding…

“Eternal life” is what we HAVE (right here, right now) as a result of justification - we have passed from death to life, and this life is immune from death, it is for all eternity.

“Heaven” is usually a place, of God, the Angels, and all his saints. For US, heaven is still in our future.
.

But how can THIS life be our eternal life? didn’t the revelations mention a new earth? and in our prayer-- thy kingdom come—ON EARTH as it is in heaven. So there is an inevitable kingdom of God in the new earth where we will live forever??

sorry for the many questions… im just trying to get the grasp on the subject. Thanks BTW

 

[spockrates]

But how can THIS life be our eternal life? didn’t the revelations mention a new earth? and in our prayer-- thy kingdom come—ON EARTH as it is in heaven. So there is an inevitable kingdom of God in the new earth where we will live forever??

sorry for the many questions… im just trying to get the grasp on the subject. Thanks BTW

Do not apologize. You ask good questions, and they deserve good answers!



A wise Catholic once told me that Jesus is eternal life, for He said this:

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

(John 14:6)

“If you have Jesus, you have eternal life,” he explained. “If you fall from grace and no longer have Jesus, you no longer have eternal life.”

But what do you think of his explanation, Fidei?

 

[DeniseFath]

The Church teaches very clearly that our souls are immortal and we will end up in either in Heaven or Hell. We are all eternal in that sense.

As for your new earth question, I hope some quotes from the Catechism will help shed some light on the subject: “Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, ‘new heavens and a new earth.’ It will be the definitive realization of God’s plan to bring under a single head 'all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth.” (1043)

“The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed,’ so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just,’ sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.” (1047)

Heaven is seeing God face-to-face, perfect communion with Jesus Christ. It’s my understanding of the Church’s teaching that God will to transform the earth and make that His new Kingdom. With Him present, this will be Heaven on earth. Hope that helps a little. God bless!

 

[NHInsider]

Heaven is the Presence of God. Here, if we are in a state of grace, we experience glimpses of it (Paul says we “see as if in a mirror - darkly” - remember that mirrors in the ancient world were NOT very clear). After death, our souls, once purified, enter His presence fully. But at the Second Coming, when we are resurrected bodily, we will still be in His presence, in our full humanity - as Adam and Eve walked with Him in the Garden. So our experience of His presence will be different. It will still be spiritual (heaven) but it will also be bodily. Hence the expression “Heaven on Earth” . . .

 

[Fidei]

Heaven is the Presence of God. Here, if we are in a state of grace, we experience glimpses of it (Paul says we “see as if in a mirror - darkly” - remember that mirrors in the ancient world were NOT very clear). After death, our souls, once purified, enter His presence fully. But at the Second Coming, when we are resurrected bodily, we will still be in His presence, in our full humanity - as Adam and Eve walked with Him in the Garden. So our experience of His presence will be different. It will still be spiritual (heaven) but it will also be bodily. Hence the expression “Heaven on Earth” . . .

I couldn’t have asked for a better explanation! Very well said!

Thank you!

Godbless

 

[Able]

This should answer your question.

John 6: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

In verse 39

 

[Mailman]

If we are to understand the truth about heaven and eternal life [or any other religious teaching] we must look to the words of Jesus Christ, the prophets and the apostles in the Holy Scriptures.

Here is what the Scriptures say about heaven.

“Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool…” (Isa. 66:1).

“…neither by heaven for it is God’s throne” (Matt. 5:34).

Heaven then, is a place where God’s throne is.

Is heaven the presence of God? Yes, because God’s throne is there. But do we experience “glimpses of it” in this our life on earth? No. The Scriptures clearly distinguishes between heaven as being God’s throne and the earth as His footstool (Isa. 66:1). Heaven is something that is “above” the earth [John 6:39 “For I came down from heaven…” ].

Now, what do the Scriptures say about eternal life?

But first, what is eternal life? It is a life that has infinite duration, that is, without end – EVERLASTING. When a person has eternal life that person is said to be immortal. The person will not die and will continue to live for all eternity.

Do the Scriptures say eternal life is something human beings already have? Do we have some “soul” in us that will live forever – an immortal soul?

The Scriptures reveal that there is only one [among those born of humans] who possesses immortality. He is “…the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of Lords; who ONLY hath immortality” (I Tim. 6:15-16). If this is the truth, then we, human beings, do not have eternal life inherent in us.

The Scriptures tell us that eternal life is something we still have to seek in this life. “To them who by patient continuance in well doing SEEK for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life” (Rom. 2:7). The Jews understood this truth and so their question to Jesus had always been, ”Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” (Matt. 19:16).

The Scriptures also reveal that only those who believe in Christ shall be given eternal life. “That, whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:15). And eternal life will be given only “in the world to come” (Mark 10:30). No murderer will be given eternal life. “…and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him” (1 John 3:15). Why? “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life…” (Rom. 6:23). Two extremes, death and eternal life: Death as penalty for sin and eternal life as God’s gift for the righteous. Clearly, eternal life is not something we possess now and is not something that will be given to all.

 

[Mailman]

The belief that there is something in man that is immortal is not biblical. This belief is not unique to traditional Christianity, though. Generally, all religions believe in some kind of immortal essence, a spirit that lives on separately after the physical body dies. As Andrew Wilson, in his work “World Scripture: A Comparative Anthology of Sacred Texts, pointed out: “All religions affirm that there is an aspect of the human person that lives on after the physical life ended.”

The concept of the immortality of the soul is not taught in the OT. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia explains: “We are influenced always more or less by the Greek, Platonic idea that the body dies, yet the soul is immortal. Such an idea is utterly contrary to the Israelite consciousness and is nowhere found in the Old Testament.”

The first-century Church did not hold to this belief, either. “The doctrine is increasingly regarded as a post-apostolic innovation…” (The Fire that Consumes, Edward Fudge, 1994). The New Bible Dictionary gives a background of the unbiblical nature of this doctrine: “The Greeks thought of the body as a hindrance to true life and they looked for the time when the soul would be free from its shackles. They conceived of life after death in terms of the immortality of the soul…” (1996, “Resurrection”).

Belief in a separate soul and body was popular in Greek society and was taught by one of their most famous philosophers. “The immortality of the soul was a principal doctrine of the Greek philosophers, Plato… In Plato’s thinking, the soul… was self-moving and indivisible… It existed before the body which it inhabited, and which it would survive” (Fudge).

These teachings of Plato and other Greek philosophers profoundly influenced Christianity. Jeffrey Russell, in his book, A History of Heaven, states: “The unbiblical idea of immortality did not die but even flourished, because theologians… admired Greek philosophy [and] found support there for the notion of the immortal soul….”

 

[Fidei]

Mailman,

1 Peter 3:19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
who are these spirits in prison if the human soul cannot survive after death as an immortal creature?

Isaiah 14:9-11
9"(A)Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead …Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.’

The body is just a tent, or tabernacle that does not last (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 2 Pet. 1:13), while man cannot kill the soul (Matt. 10:28)
Eternal life is given to those who acknowledge the Lord

while the ones who should suffer eternal damnation will experience:
11"And the (A)smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; (B)they have no rest day and night, those who (C)worship the beast and his (D)image, and whoever receives the (E)mark of his name."

same with the rich man and Lazarus, where Lazarus was taken to Abraham’s bosom where " 24 he cried out and said, ‘(D)Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in (E)this flame.’

25"But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that (F)during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

 

[Mailman]

Mailman,

1 Peter 3:19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
who are these spirits in prison if the human soul cannot survive after death as an immortal creature?

I Pet. 3:19

The “spirits in prison” do not refer to departed souls but to fallen angels – wicked angels who followed Satan now in chains of darkness (Jude 6).

Some have supposed that Jesus preached to the “spirits in prison” during the three days and three nights He was dead in the grave. But the passage does not say that. Notice verse 20: “… when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing….” That’s WHEN Jesus preached to the spirits or wicked angels – in the days of Noah, not during the time He was dead and buried in the grave.

Isaiah 14:9-11

9"(A)Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead …Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.’

Isa. 14:9-11

The text “It arouses for you the spirits of the dead” is properly translated “It stirs up the dead for you” (KJV). The Hebrew is “ur rapha” – ur, “to stir up” and rapha, meaning “dead”. The Hebrew for spirit is ruach which is the word translated “spirit” in Job 4:15: “Then a spirit ruach] passed before my face, the hair of my flesh stood up.”

The body is just a tent, or tabernacle that does not last (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 2 Pet. 1:13), while man cannot kill the soul (Matt. 10:28)
Eternal life is given to those who acknowledge the Lord

2 Cor. 5:1-4

Yes, the passage tells us that the body does not last. But the passage also refutes the belief that man is composed of a body that is subject to death and a soul that is immortal. Notice it says in verse 4, “that mortality might be swallowed up of life” (KJV). In other words, our mortal bodies will be TRANSFORMED into one having eternal life [spirit]. This is clearly different from the immortal soul doctrine that teaches man has an immortal soul co-existing with the body which will DEPART or SEPARATE from the body when it dies.

2 Pet. 1:13

This passage speaks about “putting off” our mortal bodies. Why? So that it might be TRANSFORMED or CHANGED into spirit (2 Cor. 5:4).

“Behold I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall be CHANGED” (1 Cor. 15:51). How shall we be changed? “…THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY” (v. 52-53). That is how we shall be changed! And notice it does not say our immortal soul shall leave our dead body, but that our dead body itself shall CHANGE.

But is this for everyone? Will everyone “put on immortality”? Listen: “But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ” (verse 57). Yes, it’s not for everyone. That’s why Paul ends his letter with this exhortation: “Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord…” because ONLY THOSE WHO SHALL STAND STEADFAST for the faith HAVE THE PROMISE OF IMMORTALITY.”

Unlike the immortal soul doctrine, the Scriptures say plainly that eternal life is not for everyone.

Matt. 10:28

This verse is saying that mortal men can destroy human life, but God has ordained that everyone is going to be brought back to life again (John 5:28-29). Man can only destroy human life temporarily, but God can absolutely extinguish life if He deems it necessary.

The meaning of the passage is clouded because the word “soul” has lost its true meaning in religious circles. Actually, “soul” simply means “life.” Once this meaning is understood, Jesus’ statement becomes clear.

The word “soul” is translated from the Greek word psuche and the Hebrew word nephesh. Both words mean a living, breathing creature, when referring to man or animal. “Soul” NEVER means something immortal in man or animal. It simply pertains to the life of all physical creatures.

Lev. 17:11 for example can be just as accurately translated, “For the soul [Hebrew, *nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood.” Or, in the NT: “…the Son of man came to give his soul [Greek, *psuche] a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45) by pouring out His soul (life’s blood) in payment for sin (Isa. 53:12). “Soul,” then, refers to the physical life in man or animals.

The soul can be destroyed, as Jesus said in Matt. 10:28. The OT prophet Ezekiel also twice said: “The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Eze. 18:4, 20).

God can destroy the physical body and the soul or life. He has the power to resurrect the dead [as he once was in his physical body] and, if He then judges the person unworthy, the condemned will be thrown into the lake of fire to be utterly consumed. This is the second death from which there will be no resurrection (Rev. 20:14-15; Mal. 4:1). The body and life (soul) of the incorrigibly wicked will be destroyed forever by the fire of Gehenna (hell).

 

[Mailman]

while the ones who should suffer eternal damnation will experience:
11"And the (A)smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; (B)they have no rest day and night, those who (C)worship the beast and his (D)image, and whoever receives the (E)mark of his name."

Rev. 14:10-11

Notice that verse 8 gives the time setting of Rev. 14:11. It is speaking about the impending fall of “Babylon.” Verses 9 and 10 say: “…If any man worship the beast and his image and receive his mark… he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone…in the presence of the Lamb” – that is, at Christ’s second coming.

Those who have a part in this system of “Babylon,” and who receive this punishment from God, have “no rest day nor night” as long as they remain in that land falling under God’s wrath. They will either have to flee that area and seek God’s mercy or be tormented by sulfurous hellfire till they perish. Notice that this passage does not say these individuals are being tormented forever in an ever-burning hell. Verse 11 says: “…The SMOKE of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever…” Smoke is what remains of burned bodies.

Other passages clarify that the wicked will be completely destroyed, as in Mal. 4:1-3: “For, behold, the day cometh” – the time of the judgment, a future time – “that shall burn as an oven… and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch” (verse 1). This shows the wicked will not be tormented forever but will be burned up in the hellfire and turned into ashes. “And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ASHES under the soles of your feet…” (v. 3).

same with the rich man and Lazarus, where Lazarus was taken to Abraham’s bosom where " 24 he cried out and said, ‘(D)Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in (E)this flame.’

25"But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that (F)during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

This is a parable. But let’s take it literally and see what it says. The rich man, opening his eyes in his grave hades] in his resurrection, sees Abraham and Lazarus in his “bosom” – that is, his loving embrace. He also sees this awful flame of fire – the lake of fire which is about to destroy him forever – and he is terrified. His mouth goes dry. In this mental agony he cries out to Abraham so that he may “send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”

Now, if the rich man were in the kind of hell most people seem to believe, his whole body would be on fire and he would have called for at least a bucket of water. But, no, he asked only that Lazarus “dip the tip of his finger in water” – just a couple of drops. Isn’t that strange?

The flame, he said, was “tormenting” him. This word “tormented,” used in verses 24 and 25 is translated from the Greek word odunomai. This is defined as “to cause pain, to pain, distress; pain of body, but also, pain of mind; grief, distress.”

This rich man is resurrected mortal, just as he was before he died – not immortal like Lazarus. He sees this lake of fire. He knows the frightful and awful end awaiting him. He was about to be thrown into the fire and burned up. So he suffers such fear and mental anguish as he never experienced in his life. His tongue goes dry. He cries for a little water to cool his tongue. He is in that condition Jesus calls weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Notice that in this parable Jesus never said the rich man was going to suffer endlessly and forever – always burning, being on fire – yet never burning up. There is not one word here about how long this rich man’s agony is going to last.

God bless.

 

[ssjohn143]

I believe a small minority. Read the parable that Jesus taught in Mark 4 and Luke 8 regarding the sowing of seed (the Word). Only 25% of the seed fell on fertile soil and this is of those that have heard the “Word”. As you can tell by many of the posts on this site alone, not many believe in Jesus Christ or God in any way much less being in a person relationship with Them. I would go so far as to say that probably less than 10% of the world population are truly involved in a saving relationship with God. Sad I know but look at the apathy in all societies today. The few places faith in God seems to be growing are those where the persecution appears to be the greatest and harshest.

---

 

[MikiBee]

I think the great majority of people enter heaven. I know many people on this site will disagree with me, but I feel that if even one person enters hell, then the devil won, and I just can’t see God letting the devil win.

So if the majority go to hell as some think, then the devil has truly won.

 

[Fidei]

@ mailman, Why would Jesus preach to the fallen angels when demons cannot be saved? 2 Peter 2:4

Notice in I Pet. 3:19-20 (NIV) “After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water.”

He preached to the souls of the dead who were disobedient long ago during their life since the days of Noah… it did not mention Jesus went back in time to preach to demons.

Jesus’ objective in going to hades was to preach his mission and his name to the souls who have not heard of him since the days of Noah, thereby rescuing the souls of the dead imprisoned in hades before Christ.

Christ only died once (1 Peter 3:18) and He did it as a human and for humans. Thus, demons can’t be saved.

Those angels which never sinned, of course, have no need to be saved.

@ mailman, Paul is not speaking in codes when he spoke about those who are able to kill the body but is unable to kill the soul. scripture is plain about that.

This does not speak about us changing our state, it speaks about complete separation of the body and soul.
If this talks about our resurrected bodies, why would death even be an issue if we already attained perfection and eternal life?

this speaks of the present state, when we DO fear death, but the bible speaks not to fear it but to embrace it since it cannot do more to your soul which is immortal.

 

[Mailman]

@ mailman, Why would Jesus preach to the fallen angels when demons cannot be saved? 2 Peter 2:4

Notice in I Pet. 3:19-20 (NIV) “After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water.”

He preached to the souls of the dead who were disobedient long ago during their life since the days of Noah… it did not mention Jesus went back in time to preach to demons.

Jesus’ objective in going to hades was to preach his mission and his name to the souls who have not heard of him since the days of Noah, thereby rescuing the souls of the dead imprisoned in hades before Christ.

Christ only died once (1 Peter 3:18) and He did it as a human and for humans. Thus, demons can’t be saved.

Those angels which never sinned, of course, have no need to be saved.

Hi Fedei,
The text says, “imprisoned spirits” – in the original Greek, pneuma. It does not say “souls,” which in the Greek is psuche. Notice that in Matt. 10:28, “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul…,” the word translated “soul” is psuche in the original Greek.

Now, notice this text that speaks about a man being possessed by a demon: “And when the unclean spirit had torn him…” (Mark 1:26). Here, the word “spirit” is translated from the Greek pneuma, the same Greek word used in the term “imprisoned spirits” in 1 Peter. Clearly, Jesus was preaching to demonic beings in that passage.

Now, about 1 Peter 2:4, this text does not say demons cannot be saved – that they are already condemned. It says they were put in a place of restraint (Greek, tartaroo) “to be reserved unto judgment” – to await judgment.

And we have to believe these fallen angels are yet to be judged because Paul tells us that, “we shall [in the future] judge angels” (1 Cor. 6:3).

So, can fallen angels be saved? Can they be reconciled to God? The Bible speaks mainly about man’s salvation, not of fallen angels’. But there is one passage in the Bible which speaks of reconciliation “by Him [Jesus]” of “ALL THINGS unto Himself.” The passage is found in Colossians 1:14-20.

Notice that the term “all things” refers to “to all things created, that are in heaven [must include angelic beings], and that are in earth, visible [man] and INVISIBLE [the angels and demons], whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers…” (v. 16). It says, “…through the blood of His cross,” Christ is to reconcile all these things “unto himself, by him… whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.” (v. 20). That should answer our question whether fallen angels can still be reconciled to God.

@ mailman, Paul is not speaking in codes when he spoke about those who are able to kill the body but is unable to kill the soul. scripture is plain about that.

This does not speak about us changing our state, it speaks about complete separation of the body and soul.

I agree with you that this does not speak about a change in state. But this does not also say there is a soul that separates from the body at death. It merely shows that there is a distinction between soul and body. And that distinction is this: The body is the material flesh and blood that man is made of, and “soul” is the LIFE of that material body.

If this talks about our resurrected bodies, why would death even be an issue if we already attained perfection and eternal life?

This is not talking about our resurrected bodies. This is talking about man’s inability to completely destroy human life. Even though he may kill another, man cannot cause the ULTIMATE destruction of another’s life because God will eventually resurrect everyone back to life. This is telling us that God alone reserves to Himself the right to absolutely destroy life.

this speaks of the present state, when we DO fear death, but the bible speaks not to fear it but to embrace it since it cannot do more to your soul which is immortal.

Yes, it says that, except for the last part. Examine closely what the passage does say.

“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matt. 10:28).

Does it say we are not to fear death because our soul is immortal? Absolutely not. What it says is that we are not to fear those who CANNOT kill the soul, but we must fear Him who can kill it. If the soul CAN BE killed, then it follows that the soul is not immortal, right? It’s just that man cannot do it. He cannot kill the soul. It would take an act of its Creator to destroy it. And how will this be done? How will the Creator destroy the soul? He says He will, “destroy both soul and body IN HELL” – in the fires of Gehenna is where He will destroy it.

Rather than show the existence of an immortal soul, this passage in Matthew conclusively proves that the soul CAN be destroyed, and is therefore not immortal

God bless.

 

[Fidei]

I agree with you that this does not speak about a change in state. But this does not also say there is a soul that separates from the body at death. It merely shows that there is a distinction between soul and body. And that distinction is this: The body is the material flesh and blood that man is made of, and “soul” is the LIFE of that material body.

@ mailman. youve proven my point, if the soul is life, and the body is material (flesh and blood), why can mere man take away life (soul as you call it) when scripture says only God can kill the soul?
If somebody were to murder, wouldnt they also take away the life (soul) of their victim? this contradicts scripture that no man can kill the soul. God is Almighty, it shouldn’t be hard for him to destroy an immortal soul if he wills it since he “holds all things together”.

read a parallel passage:
Luke 12:4-5: “And I say to you, 'My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who after He has killed has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!”

hell is also often times called death since it was opened through sin. (Romans 6:23) therefore the “killing of the soul” means torment in hell.

Why would Jesus have us fear our Father who can “kill the soul”? (Luke 12:4-5; Matt. 10:28)
because he can throw us into everlasting contempt.
Matthew 25:4 “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Daniel 12:2: “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.”