heaven and hell

[debraran]

I was talking with some friends and we were thinking of why so many have a hard time with the concept of heaven and hell and wanting to be there (or not)
I thought it was because both in a sense were hard to imagine. For some with awful lives here, they feel like they have a “hell on earth” and don’t fear more, although it’s eternal. Heaven is so wonderful and beautiful, it is not an easy concept either. As humans, imagining a place where you love everyone, where there is no emotions like lust, hate, jealousy, etc. is almost impossible. It’s part of what makes someone human. A girlfriend said to imagine seeing men and not feeling anything sexual is odd, but that wont exist so it isn’t necessary. The not so perfect parts of us sometimes isn’t “evil” just makes us as humans interesting and sets us apart from each other.
I don’t think it’s right, but I do think that when people can’t grasp something at all, it makes it less important. Or when they believe something to make it real, and then a theologian or church member tells them (right or wrong) that isn’t correct and they say, “forget it then, it’s beyond me”, they just live day by day and not with their “eye on God”.
I don’t know the answer, but I do hope our religious leaders can make Jesus and our Lady more real and “touchable” to many in the future. Anyone have thoughts on this?

 

[Just_wondering]

Well, I’m not Catholic yet - I don’t have any religion. Heaven is the reason I’m doubting religion, if that makes sense. I have a really hard time imagining how everyone who lived a good enough life and confessed their sins can go to heaven and be happy there - there are too many conflicting definitions of happiness. If being with my mother makes me happy, but she secretly always wished she’d never had kids, would I see her in heaven or not?

And what age are people in heaven - do babies grow up to reach their full potential in heaven, and if so can their parents recognize them? And do older people go back to the prime of their lives in heaven, and if so can their grandchildren recognize them?

I’ve basically decided that the hows and whys of heaven are not my problem right now. I focus on the parts of the Church’s teaching that I can understand and connect with. When I feel that God wouldn’t care so much about what I’m feeling, I talk to Mary about it because she’s a woman and she’d probably understand better. I am still very new in my faith - in my first six months of figuring all this out - and it makes sense to me just to worry about the parts that are within my understanding. For me, I leave Heaven up to God. I’ve got enough things to worry about on Earth for now.

 

[debraran]

Those things were touched on too…that’s what makes it so hard to grasp. You know you’ll like it better than earth, but as humans, to not care if someone is in hell or away from you, to be unattached to those feelings, is not something easy to grasp. There really aren’t relationships, just souls. Who was your husband or sister doesn’t really matter. That’s why some (not myself) believe in reincarnation, they feel souls just keep purging themselves until perfection, but ties to anyone is not lasting, just part of a process.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Hi all
My understanding of heaven which I’ve gained from the church and saints is that you will be a soul in heaven when you die. Provided you make it. You get your body back at the reurrection and it will be like it was at it’s prime. Maybe a 16 yo body. You will recognise all other angels and saints in heaven. And you will recognise family and friends. The one virtue needed in heaven is charity. No need for the other theological virtues of faith and hope once there. We will love all because we see God in them. In heaven God will infuse blessings into us of an infinite variety throughout eternity. The existence will be bliss. Apparently we were made for the vision of God and will be perfectly happy once we have it. The infused blissful blessings, the vision of our Lady , and the angels and saints must be a bonus. St Augustine said you have made us for yourself o Lord and our hearts are restless until they rest in thee. This is why we are never fully satisfied- we were made for the vision of God. This is the reason for the greatest pain in hell too. We miss out on the beatific vision ( vision of God). Same with purgatory- we burn up with desire to see God in there. I am very saddened by so many people refusing to take any time to learn about important subjects like this. If heaven and hell exist shouldn’t it be the greatest concern in our lives. If we’re unsure if there real shouldn’t we devote much study to find the truth. Most people I know drift through life never taking any time to learn about the big questions in life. I’m glad the church’s teaching on many of these mysteries is deep and profound. If it weren’t I might not believe it. Just another fairy tale. We know infinity exists even though we can’t understand it. We know much about God even though we can’t fully understand Him. We are the finite trying to comprehend the infinite. How can concepts which touch on the infinite and are outside of our experience be easy to understand? This is why we ultimately need the gift of faith to understand such things. Without faith we cannot accept these mysteries. St Thomas Aquinas asked for the gift of understanding when he became a priest, He is one of the greatest minds that ever lived. Near the end of his life and after he had completed his masterpieces of theology, he had his mind illumined by God to understand the mysteries of the faith to a very high degree. He could not express what he understood because our language was inadequate. He wanted to burn all his work. Fortunately the lesser mortals around him wouldn’t let him. Our minds and languages are inadequate to fully understand such things. But we can still know a fair bit if we have faith and take the time to learn. God bless all.

 

[tmango]

I understand the questions that both of you have concerning heaven and hell. It is a difficult concept to understand, but that is why those of us trying very hard to be faithful to our Lord, must walk in faith, not by sight. Questioning is good, but when one questions their faith, they must search for the answers. As Jesus has said, “knock and the door will be opened,” “ask and it will be given to you.” Faith is an ongoing process. You have to study your faith, and then try to live that faith as best you can.

The catholic faith believes in purgatory. This is a wonderful gift from God. Since a lot of us believe in heaven or hell, purgatory allows those of us that are not pure in heart to become purified before we can see the face of God. Think of it as the sun in the sky. You cannot look directly at the sun and see it. It is far too bright for our naked eye to behold it. This is similar to God. You cannot look at Him directly, without first removing all the damage caused by sin.

You speak of happiness and the many different things that make us happy, but true happiness is loving and being loved. You love your parents, your children, and your many friends. Not much means anything if we do not have that love. Material things are of no meaning without the love of another person in our life. That is Jesus…Love. He is the ultimate love. He gave His life and suffered all those humiliations and even the cross, when He did not have to…all because of His love for us.

Jesus asks us to love Him and to follow His commandments. When one looks at those 10 commandments, we see the foundation of most of the world’s laws. They make for a better world, when everyone follows them.

Look at it this way. Think of a time when you met someone and fell in love. You thought about that person constantly and wanted to always be with that person, then something happened and you knew you would never see that person again. That is how it will be at judgement. You will see Jesus and know all the love he had for you, but you ignored His callings and put other people and things ahead of Him. At judgement, you realize He is everything you ever hoped to have, but you chose differently. Your hell will be knowing that, forever, you will never see Him again. In our weak human terms, this would be difficult indeed to live with, but when you look at this in the spiritual light, this will be unbearable.

There are so many questions, and a lot of them do not have answers. You can only go by faith. This is why it is a straight and narrow road, and a difficult one to follow, especially in these fast paced days. But one thing for sure, you can live the most sinful life, ignoring our Lord every day of your life, and at your last breath, ask Him for mercy, and He will grant you His mercy. That is the depth of His love for us.

I understand you, because I, too, wonder and question things around me. I search for the answers in scripture, the catholic catechism, books of the saints, and just by praying for the grace of intellect so that I may understand His Word.

I will pray for you, too, that you receive the grace needed to let you walk by faith, not by sight.

I hope I have not rattled on too long. Forgive me if I have.

 

[Eileen_T]

. . . I am very saddened by so many people refusing to take any time to learn about important subjects like this. If heaven and hell exist shouldn’t it be the greatest concern in our lives. If we’re unsure if there real shouldn’t we devote much study to find the truth. . .

I totally agree. I am reminded of a line in The Matrix when they are looking at people going about their lives and one character comments about how they are all oblivious to reality.

People are living for today and for themselves and shrug off anything to do with finding out about Eternity and what it will mean.

 

[debraran]

To be charitable, I think some people just find it overwhelming and it gives them a headache! It is scary to think of yourself so different, so lacking of the things that you understand and know. Sometimes when something is so foriegn to you, people treat it like hard math, “I’ll just let it go and do something else”.
I remember a nun at EWTN saying in tears how much she missed Mother Angelica’s old personality…her impatience, her little jabs (done with love) her sarcastic wit…now she was peaceful, loving and quieter, but she still mourned the very things that will be purged from all of us. It’s just a human response. Evil wont be missed, but it is just so hard to imagine beauty and niceness ALL the time.
My son in college said to me the other day, Why are we here? It’s like a game, let these people try to get to the end, the prize and see who makes it…kids are abused from birth, killed, set on fire, our world is so crazy. I wish we all had good spirtual advisors, but alas we have to hunt as with this site. : )

 

[tmango]

The best spiritual adviser one can have is one’s own heart. It all begins with self. Knowing oneself and understanding that we have very little control over our lives. We walk on a tightrope from one second to the next. At any moment, our lives can change for the better or for the worse. This is where faith comes in. You either have it or you don’t. Faith enough to know that no matter what happens, you are not alone. Faith enough to know that when you are at your weakest, and you believe you cannot go another moment, that Jesus will lift you up and carry you for as long as it takes for you to get enough strength to stand on your own. It is really quite simple. It is all about love. Nothing more.

We tend to complicate everything by sometimes looking far too deeply into matters, when all the time the answer is on the surface. True, we should ask questions and seek spiritual guidance from a priest for some things, but it all begins within ourselves. If we do not know what is within us, how can we know what questions to ask, and if we do not know our faith, how will we know if the answers we do get are correct?

It all starts with a first step, and it is a life long process. It is also a very fulfilling process once you get comfortable walking in His sandals. Take your time and pray for understanding. Pray the rosary. It is very powerful, and it is the gospel.