Heaven and Hell

[Empyrean1986]

How does one feel about this passage:

"Heaven is eternal existence in Heaven in God’s loving presence…

Hell is also eternal existence in His loving presence, but, according to saint Isaac of Syria, they “will be chastised with the scourge of love. How cruel and better this torment of love will be. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart which has sinned against love is more piercing than any other pain.” For the evil, “eternity of Hell” is not the deprivation of the love or presence of God but rather the eternal existence in the presence of a love which is unwanted, rejected and despised. (St. Ann Church)"

Is this compatible with Catholicism, that God gives light to those in Heaven but to those who excommunicate themselves from his love, being in the presence of his love but (under the veil of sin) only experience a storm of separated communion making them unable to obtain the beatific vision and communion with the kingdom of God. God’s love to the sinners surrounds them and is freely given them but THEY are unable to participate in it? It is as though Hell isn’t specifically God INFLICTING punishment but is the result of the free deluge of God’s love resisted. And Hell could still be justice because the presence of God is both mercy and justice. Those in original sin may truly go to limbo (natural happiness) because while they still are unable to see God’s face they have not done any mortal acts against the love and divinity that is upon them (which would bring upon physical pain ‘poena sensus’ if they were in mortal sin).

(the site also believes that a gulf is separated between the two existences as in the case of Lazarus (in communion with God’s love and in light and Abraham’s bosom) and Dives (in the same presence but in an inability to commune with it.)

This could be why we are truly ‘judged according to our love’? Is it also possible that God mourns those lost in Hell?

ERIC

 

[DustinsDad]

…Hell is also eternal existence in His loving presence…but to those who excommunicate themselves from his love, being in the presence of his love but (under the veil of sin) only experience a storm of separated communion making them unable to obtain the beatific vision and communion with the kingdom of God…

Oh, I suppose it could be theorized or viewed or speculated at in such a way perhaps and not be explicitly violating anything that has been defined. But honestly - I don’t like it at all and I’m not sure one could do so safely. I think it denies so much of tradition and what the vast majority of saints and doctors down through the ages have said regarding Hell. It even seems to contradict, at least on the surface, how the Bible describes Hell.

I don’t know, I’d be careful.

I’d also like to read it all in context and see exactly who it is coming from.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[bpbasilphx]

As St. John Chrysostom said, “You ask where hell is, but why do you want to know? Let’s learn not where it lies hidden, but how to avoid it.”

 

[palmas85]

How does one feel about this passage:

"Heaven is eternal existence in Heaven in God’s loving presence…

Hell is also eternal existence in His loving presence, but, according to saint Isaac of Syria, they “will be chastised with the scourge of love. How cruel and better this torment of love will be. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart which has sinned against love is more piercing than any other pain.” For the evil, “eternity of Hell” is not the deprivation of the love or presence of God but rather the eternal existence in the presence of a love which is unwanted, rejected and despised. (St. Ann Church)"

Is this compatible with Catholicism, that God gives light to those in Heaven but to those who excommunicate themselves from his love, being in the presence of his love but (under the veil of sin) only experience a storm of separated communion making them unable to obtain the beatific vision and communion with the kingdom of God. God’s love to the sinners surrounds them and is freely given them but THEY are unable to participate in it? It is as though Hell isn’t specifically God INFLICTING punishment but is the result of the free deluge of God’s love resisted. And Hell could still be justice because the presence of God is both mercy and justice. Those in original sin may truly go to limbo (natural happiness) because while they still are unable to see God’s face they have not done any mortal acts against the love and divinity that is upon them (which would bring upon physical pain ‘poena sensus’ if they were in mortal sin).

(the site also believes that a gulf is separated between the two existences as in the case of Lazarus (in communion with God’s love and in light and Abraham’s bosom) and Dives (in the same presence but in an inability to commune with it.)

This could be why we are truly ‘judged according to our love’? Is it also possible that God mourns those lost in Hell?

ERIC

I am not a sola scriptura type, byt scripture does describe Hell ina very good way, quite often in fact and warns us repeatedly to avoid it at all costs.

I don’t think it really needs much expansion. It is a horrible place of punishment for our transgressions against the glory and majesty of God.

I have heard preachers, mainly evangelical protestants, since you won’t find many others anywhere who even acknowledge the existence of Hell, who say that we cannot understand Hell because we have never seen Heaven, I think that is a good explanation.

 

[DustinsDad]

I am not a sola scriptura type, byt scripture does describe Hell ina very good way, quite often in fact and warns us repeatedly to avoid it at all costs.

I don’t think it really needs much expansion. It is a horrible place of punishment for our transgressions against the glory and majesty of God.

I have heard preachers, mainly evangelical protestants, since you won’t find many others anywhere who even acknowledge the existence of Hell, who say that we cannot understand Hell because we have never seen Heaven, I think that is a good explanation.

I agree with all that - the only thing I’d add is that there are saints, mystics and approved private revelations from folks who have been given a glimpse - reading such accounts causes one to tremble.

I suspect that as heaven is above and beyond what we could ever imagine - so to hell is below and worse than we could ever imagine. We are finite creatures in the veil of space and time - who can fathom eternity - of glory and blessedness…or of torment and damnation. Awesome stuff - and scary stuff.

The problem I have with the OPs account of hell is that I don’t think it does justice to just how bad hell really is. Kind of softens it a bit.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[stmaria]

QUOTE=Empyrean1986;3151952]How does one feel about this passage:

"Heaven is eternal existence in Heaven in God’s loving presence…

Hell is also eternal existence in His loving presence, but, according to saint Isaac of Syria, they “will be chastised with the scourge of love. How cruel and better this torment of love will be. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart which has sinned against love is more piercing than any other pain.” For the evil, “eternity of Hell” is not the deprivation of the love or presence of God but rather the eternal existence in the presence of a love which is unwanted, rejected and despised. (St. Ann Church)"

I recently hear a Jesuit speaking on a late night talk show. He was an astronomer at the Vatican Observatory. He was asked if there is a devil. He avoided that answer by saying, " as a Catholic I must say that evil is the absence of good."
Sounds like he would embrace the OP passage on hell. Of course, after all, he is a Jesuit.

 

[SFD]

stmaria:

Sounds like he would embrace the OP passage on hell. Of course, after all, he is a Jesuit.

stmaria,

He could have very well been a Dominican, for that matter.

SFD