Heaven or Hell?

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freesoulhope:
I respect your love, forgive me for saying so but, it is only those who repent in thier heart. The thief did not know God until he was crucified next to him, his heart was Good, because his heart wanted Good and was sorry.

If any soul should die before they know God and his church, then i believe their fate will depend on the quality of thier hearts, what they wanted, what there dreams were. If God finds the love of evil in you, then no ignorance will save you, the love of sin and the love of God will be tested on jugdement day. ( at least this is what i believe) If by just saying an empty sorry because we dont want to go to hell will save us, then everybody is going to heaven!
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I’m not sure whether you’re disagreeing with me or not - it seems to me we’re on the same wavelength but you say “forgive me for saying so but…” and then seem to say the same thing…? :confused:
 
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Balance:
More thoughts:
None of us are worthy of heaven. Again, I find it extraordinary that people can sit here and say “Most people will end up in hell” but not say too “and possibly me with them.” or “1/3 of people will go to hell” but not wonder “maybe I won’t make it to the 2/3.” What is it that makes us **so sure ** of our own salvation and so sure that others we see around us don’t merit that same salvation?

None of us are worthy for heaven. We’re all conscious of our sin - at least, we think we are conscious of it - but we’re not fully aware of the real extent of it. If we were, we wouldn’t be so sure that we’re in the company of the happy few on the narrow road.

None of us are worthy of heaven - on our own anyway. We are only worthy through Christ’s mercy. Again, we’ve all, presumably, experienced God’s forgiveness in our lives. How then can we doubt that he won’t extend that same forgiveness to every human - even those **we consider ** to be “the worst sinners”? (And note that “we consider” - who are we to look at another’s sin and judge it worse than our own?)
Have we not read the Parable of the Prodigal Son? Or, having read it, have we not understood it?

Matthew 7:13ff - don’t be too quick to read this literally. (A literal reading, after all, suggests that there is an actual narrow road and narrow gate that we have to look for - where would that be?) It’s a metaphor, and as such needs careful interpretation. It needs to be put alongside all other scripture, and all other Church teaching on salvation and redemption. It’s interesting that the Catechism calls this verse not a literal description of the path to salvation, or method of salvation, or suggestion of the numbers that will go to heaven or hell, but a “call to conversion.” (CCC 1036). Not a call to find the narrow road and stay on it and you’ll be OK, but a continual call to conversion, to walking with Christ.
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I share your love, But reality is harsh, But fare. Lets hope and prey that we all Go to heaven, but we must not promote the idea, that you can just live your life and hope for the best, never seeking never caring if There is a God. What would be the point of a religious institution such as the Catholic Church if you can just live your life in ignorance Of God and religion? There are Good people such as my mum who wants a better world and wants workers to be paid fairly, but she hates God and she promote abominations in her ignorance of him, she doesnt care about the conseqences. Now i dont want my mum to Go to hell, but lets not fool are selves here. If your not of God then your Of the world and it is very rear that you find fresh berrys among rotting fruit.

What we can do however, is prey that they will be enlightened “in this world Before they rot away completly” and not the next! 🙂
 
Dear Balance, you speak for me in this thread. Even though I do not believe in God, but in my imagination if there would be a God, he would be someone like you described. With true justice (which you call mercy), no anger, no vengence, no judging, no micromanaging of our lives. Allowing our misdeeds, but forgiving them. This belief does not absolve me from trying to be good, loving and caring. It is not a get-out-of-jail card. It does not allow me to lie, cheat or kill wantonly.

Thank you for expressing my thoughts. 👍
 
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bones_IV:
The Church fathers say that more people end up in hell than in heaven.
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And the Blessed Mother says otherwise. So guess what? I know which side I’m on. 🙂
 
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bones_IV:
The Church fathers say that more people end up in hell than in heaven.
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Nobody knows. Nobody!! Scripture implies many will end up in Hell.
 
As I said though. In my initial vote I chose hell (I didn’t see purgatory lumped on with heaven when I first voted, but no matter). In my life I work to keep me from becoming damned, and those I come into contact with from ending up there too. If God judges hell for me, then his judgement is just and logically good. That’s where I should go. I try not to muddle too much thinking about purgatory. It’s a binary solution to me. 0 or 1, yes or no, on, or off, good or evil, Heavenor Hell. I just feel I am deserving of hell, but I’ll kep the fear alive in me that God may take mercy on me in the end.

I chose hell in THIS vote, but I choose God for my life.

emp.
 
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masterjedi747:
And the Blessed Mother says otherwise. So guess what? I know which side I’m on. 🙂
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The Blessed Mother said otherwise? Where? I don’t recall Mary ever saying that. Provide the evidence.
 
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thistle:
Nobody knows. Nobody!! Scripture implies many will end up in Hell.
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When I said that more people end up in hell than in heaven I was not implying that I knew the number.
 
I remember Fr. Ambrose on here saying something once, to the effect of:

If more people wound up in the kingdom of satan, than in the Kingdom of God, isn’t that, in a way, saying satan has won? Saying that satan his trumped God; has seduced more people into Hell than God could into Heaven? And furthermore, what was the point of creating and redeeming an entire human RACE if the majority will wind up in agony for all of existence?

I most certainly believe the majority make it to Heaven, albeit through Purgatory first.

Oh yeah!

And if one is familiar with the Prayer of St. Gertrude, as revealed by Christ, it releases 1000 souls upon it being said. Why is it measured in the THOUSANDS? Why not the TENS? Or even the ONES? Because there are many souls in Purgatory, of course! If there weren’t many more, He might as well make a prayer that empties all of Purgatory instead of doing it by the thousands!

And one last thing: God is love, and loves us, and wants to be with us. I agree with an earlier poster that God would rather “exploit loopholes” to save us rather than “exploit” them to condemn us. The fact that he has given us the Church, the Sacraments, the Rosary and various other prayers (“Jesus, Mary, I love you-save souls!” saves a soul each time it is prayed. For apparition details, ask Google ;).) shows us that He wants us into Heaven, and has given us more than enough tools neccessary to achieve that desire.

[EDIT] And, of course, I remember reading an article that said something like: God has not hinted well to us how many souls will merit Paradise. If we believed that the majority would, would we not become lax in our faith? If we believed the majority would parish, would we not become lazy and cruel? And if it were struck down the middle, would we not rejoice at the damnation of another, as it increases our own likelihood of having the Beatific Vision.
 
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bones_IV:
The Blessed Mother said otherwise? Where? I don’t recall Mary ever saying that. Provide the evidence.
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I was actually only referencing/trusting the arguments made in posts #5 and #7 of this thread. I don’t have the source. But I agree with you, some docummented evidence for this claim would be nice. And while we’re on this issue, I’d like to see your evidence concerning the Church Father’s opinions. (Notice that I also gave your claim the benefit of the doubt, as well.)
 
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bones_IV:
The Church fathers say that more people end up in hell than in heaven.
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This is the same as saying a particular verse in the Bible says that more people go to hell than heaven. We have to take anything a Church Father, or Saint, or theologian, says and put it into context - how does it fit in with everything else the Scriptures, and the Tradition of the Church, says about salvation and redemption.
We reveal a lack of understanding of how God speaks to his people if we take one verse, or one quote, and say that it is definitive on a particular topic.
 
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Balance:
This is the same as saying a particular verse in the Bible says that more people go to hell than heaven. We have to take anything a Church Father, or Saint, or theologian, says and put it into context - how does it fit in with everything else the Scriptures, and the Tradition of the Church, says about salvation and redemption.
We reveal a lack of understanding of how God speaks to his people if we take one verse, or one quote, and say that it is definitive on a particular topic.
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I agree.

I think that people of faith would be judged more serverly. I think you would find in hell mostly, false profits, people who teach false things, and people who sow division, and dominate, basically anybody who refuses forgivness, and love. Im not sure however, what would happen to sombody who is brainwashed by falsity.
 
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malachi_a_serva:
I think the Biblical eveidence is overwhellming. Most will go to Hell. So many that God the Father had to sacrifice his only begotten son…to give fallen man an opportunity for salvation.
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“Biblical evidence” is a funny way of saying it. If you mean that only the Bible has anything to say on the topics of salvation and redemption, that’s an incorrect view. Any Bible verse, or verses, have to be read alongside the teaching of the Church, and the Church has never taught that most people will go to Hell.

Also, you contradict yourself - “Because most people will go to Hell, God sent Jesus to be a means of salvation.” If most still go to Hell, Jesus’ perfect sacrifice seems to be… imperfect, which is of course, unthinkable.
 
Balance said:
“Biblical evidence” is a funny way of saying it. If you mean that only the Bible has anything to say on the topics of salvation and redemption, that’s an incorrect view. Any Bible verse, or verses, have to be read alongside the teaching of the Church, and the Church has never taught that most people will go to Hell.

Also, you contradict yourself - “Because most people will go to Hell, God sent Jesus to be a means of salvation.” If most still go to Hell, Jesus’ perfect sacrifice seems to be… imperfect, which is of course, unthinkable.
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Jesus Christ, only provided a means for us to be with the father in heaven. Jesus is the perfect living sacrafice, he is the perfect son, a model of what he wants his children to be, and mary is the perfect model and duaghter.( He is the way, the truth and the light, and only through him can we be with the father). He did not however, burn in hell for are sins, he is not a scape goat, we still have free will.
 
It’s not my job to decide who goes, so I don’t worry about it. It’s in God’s hands.

And I have more than enough work, just keeping myself in line, without adding to it by trying to discern who’s going where. 😛
 
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cocot:
Where do you think most souls wind up?
For me, I have an ever changing view.
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Only two things can happen period. You either conform with God’s Laws and become an immortal like Him, Romans 2:6-11 or you die forever, Ezekiel 18:4-9 for example.

There are at least 3 ressurections God has designed so as to be fair with all that have ever lived. I am confident that throughout each of these more people will chose immortality rather than death.
 
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