Heaven: Physical or Spiritual?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Duke_of_St_Paul
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Duke_of_St_Paul

Guest
I’ve been contemplating lately about heaven and whether is it a “spiritual” or physical abode. I read an article here at Catholic Answers which made me think of it even more. In this article the author noted that heaven was beyond our conception, and so if physical was a unlike this physical realm we presently preside in. I tend to lean toward “spiritual” because the thought of a physical abode seems “out of touch” with contemporary science; I parenthesize spiritual for the reason that it’s not relatable, like an apple to a pear. A pear is like an apple but when suggesting a pear is like an apple it really doesn’t do the taste of an apple justice—they aren’t the same.

I’d like to hear your thoughts as to whether heaven is either a spiritual abode or a physical abode. And please if you’re able, use references from scripture, catechism, or the writings of saints when posting.
 
Heaven is a place of embodied life ( pneumatikon soma).

This would seem to imply physicality, because our experience with bodies is a priori, and even by definition, physical.

However, physicality implies time, while Heaven is eternal

So the embodiedness is of a different quality to our known bodies. Saint Paul suggested this by his use of the term, “pneumatikon soma,” spiritual body (1Co 15).

ICXC NIKA
 
Paradise is presented as being physical, while having God visiting it, and angel protecting it. Heaven then might be spiritual, but have defined limits. Numerous passages in The Apocalypse, and the Prophets present thrones, seas of glass, etc.; so it 's does have defined areas. 🤷
 
currently spiritual, but will become physical after the end of the world.
 
If it contains physical bodies it must have a physical dimension to it.
 
Both…I am certain. Though, right now it may be more spiritual, but when the day comes that our God resurrects our bodies, as He has promised, we will be restored to physical form, I anticipate that Heaven, the New Jerusalem, will also take on a physical form for us to then reside. Personally, I can’t wait because He said He would then live among us. Wow!
 
If it contains physical bodies it must have a physical dimension to it.
I may be wrong, but as far as I know, there was only 3 people who entered heaven with their psychical bodies, Jesus, Enoch, and Ezekiel. I have wondered about this alot too, if heaven/hell is purely spiritual then how would it be possible for ANYONE (besides Jesus) to enter it psychically?

The only thing I can think of is heaven/hell is probably something/place, that cannot be described using man made terms, and is unique in nature.

The bible says people in Hell will experience gnashing of teeth, weeping and other psychical pains, as well, it also says people in heaven will experience great feelings, so Im not clear how this can be possible if only our spirits go to heaven or hell.

Ive also wondered about the whole time not existing in either place as well. I realize I am human and begin to speculate about it, but if we are in a place where time does not exist, then I dont see how a person/spirit could even experience any type of feelings, as that would imply ‘time’ spent…?? If time does not exist in either place, then a minute would be the same thing as 1000 yrs and other way around…GEEZ, im starting to get a headache just thinking about this LOL.
 
I may be wrong, but as far as I know, there was only 3 people who entered heaven with their psychical bodies, Jesus, Enoch, and Ezekiel. I have wondered about this alot too, if heaven/hell is purely spiritual then how would it be possible for ANYONE (besides Jesus) to enter it psychically?

The only thing I can think of is heaven/hell is probably something/place, that cannot be described using man made terms, and is unique in nature.

The bible says people in Hell will experience gnashing of teeth, weeping and other psychical pains, as well, it also says people in heaven will experience great feelings, so Im not clear how this can be possible if only our spirits go to heaven or hell.

Ive also wondered about the whole time not existing in either place as well. I realize I am human and begin to speculate about it, but if we are in a place where time does not exist, then I dont see how a person/spirit could even experience any type of feelings, as that would imply ‘time’ spent…?? If time does not exist in either place, then a minute would be the same thing as 1000 yrs and other way around…GEEZ, im starting to get a headache just thinking about this LOL.
Elijah not Ezekiel. :)🙂

And it’s physical, not psychical.

As to not having time: As human beings, we can already potentially experience something like it, at least saints who experience Bilocation can 🙂

ICXC NIKA
 
I may be wrong, but as far as I know, there was only 3 people who entered heaven with their psychical bodies, Jesus, Enoch, and Ezekiel. I have wondered about this alot too, if heaven/hell is purely spiritual then how would it be possible for ANYONE (besides Jesus) to enter it psychically?

The only thing I can think of is heaven/hell is probably something/place, that cannot be described using man made terms, and is unique in nature.

The bible says people in Hell will experience gnashing of teeth, weeping and other psychical pains, as well, it also says people in heaven will experience great feelings, so Im not clear how this can be possible if only our spirits go to heaven or hell.

Ive also wondered about the whole time not existing in either place as well. I realize I am human and begin to speculate about it, but if we are in a place where time does not exist, then I dont see how a person/spirit could even experience any type of feelings, as that would imply ‘time’ spent…?? If time does not exist in either place, then a minute would be the same thing as 1000 yrs and other way around…GEEZ, im starting to get a headache just thinking about this LOL.
Wish I could come up with a quote but I am reminded that we Catholics celebrate the Assumption of the Body of the Blessed Virgin Mary into Heaven upon her physical death. She ascended into Heaven in body and soul as did her son Our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe this occurred so that we on earth can believe by the examples our God has given us that His promises not only will come true but have already been shown by the two examples just given.
 
These were some of the words about Heaven that Bl. JPII spoke during the Wednesday audience on the subject…

***"In the context of Revelation, we know that the “heaven” or “happiness” in which we will find ourselves is neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but a living, personal relationship with the Holy Trinity. It is our meeting with the Father which takes place in the risen Christ through the communion of the Holy Spirit.

It is always necessary to maintain a certain restraint in describing these “ultimate realities” since their depiction is always unsatisfactory. Today, personalist language is better suited to describing the state of happiness and peace we will enjoy in our definitive communion with God.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church sums up the Church’s teaching on this truth: "By his death and Resurrection, Jesus Christ has “opened’ heaven to us. The life of the blessed consists in the full and perfect possession of the fruits of the redemption accomplished by Christ. He makes partners in his heavenly glorification those who have believed in him and remained faithful to his will. Heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ” (n. 1026).
  1. This final state, however, can be anticipated in some way today in sacramental life, whose centre is the Eucharist, and in the gift of self through fraternal charity. If we are able to enjoy properly the good things that the Lord showers upon us every day, we will already have begun to experience that joy and peace which one day will be completely ours. We know that on this earth everything is subject to limits, but the thought of the “ultimate” realities helps us to live better the “penultimate” realities. We know that as we pass through this world we are called to seek “the things that are above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God” (Col 3:1), in order to be with him in the eschatological fulfilment, when the Spirit will fully reconcile with the Father “all things, whether on earth or in heaven” (Col 1:20)." ***
ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2heavn.htm

So he says by participating in the Sacraments especially the Eucharist, exercising fraternal charity with everyone and actively appreciating the good things God has already given us… we begin to experience the essence of heaven here and now.
 
I’ve been contemplating lately about heaven and whether is it a “spiritual” or physical abode. I read an article here at Catholic Answers which made me think of it even more. In this article the author noted that heaven was beyond our conception, and so if physical was a unlike this physical realm we presently preside in. I tend to lean toward “spiritual” because the thought of a physical abode seems “out of touch” with contemporary science; I parenthesize spiritual for the reason that it’s not relatable, like an apple to a pear. A pear is like an apple but when suggesting a pear is like an apple it really doesn’t do the taste of an apple justice—they aren’t the same.

I’d like to hear your thoughts as to whether heaven is either a spiritual abode or a physical abode. And please if you’re able, use references from scripture, catechism, or the writings of saints when posting.
Excellent question! We know that those in Heaven will get their bodies back, so that would lean towards a physical place.

A good clue to look at is Jesus after the Resurrection. He was able to walk through walls and eat fish. Therefore, I’d imagine the resurrected body would be physical on some level, but not with the same restrictions we currently have. And therefore, Heaven must be physical on some level but perhaps not as we think of physical objects today.

Hopefully that helps!
 
Last Thursdays Gospel had the Pharisees asking Jesus about the coming of the Kingdom…

Luke 17: 20 - 25
  • Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, Lo, here it is!' or There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”
And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, Lo, there!' or Lo, here!’ Do not go, do not follow them. For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of man be in his day.

But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. *

Another insight comes through the account of the Transfiguration when Moses and Elijah appear with Jesus so seemingly physically, that the disciples offer to build them each a shelter.

They were to come to understand that John the Baptist was the predicted return of Elijah. We can see by that there is some sense of communion between people that is not strictly limited by our understood physical realities.
 
Over the weekend, I posted a topic about John Bosco’s vision of Heaven which seems to point to some kind of ‘natural’ reality in Heaven:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=838226&highlight=john+bosco

For those who just want a link to the vision itself, click this link:
americaneedsfatima.org/heaven-the-hope-of-our-souls.html

To answer your question about whether Heaven will be spiritual or physical, what is taught in the catechism is that the Earth will be renewed or glorified at the end of time. The Earth then becomes what is called in the bible ‘the New Earth.’ The link to the Catechism’s info is here:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm
 
I’ve been contemplating lately about heaven and whether is it a “spiritual” or physical abode. I read an article here at Catholic Answers which made me think of it even more. In this article the author noted that heaven was beyond our conception, and so if physical was a unlike this physical realm we presently preside in. I tend to lean toward “spiritual” because the thought of a physical abode seems “out of touch” with contemporary science; I parenthesize spiritual for the reason that it’s not relatable, like an apple to a pear. A pear is like an apple but when suggesting a pear is like an apple it really doesn’t do the taste of an apple justice—they aren’t the same.

I’d like to hear your thoughts as to whether heaven is either a spiritual abode or a physical abode. And please if you’re able, use references from scripture, catechism, or the writings of saints when posting.
I like the way Pope Benedict put it in one of his books: God is heaven-*He’s *what makes the place or state heavenly.
 
Heaven is deffinitely spiritual, It is union with God who is pure Spirit we are the lowest on the ladder of spiritual beings. Jesus took on our human nature and raised it to a higher level, especially in Mary who was named The Mother of Jesus (God-man) and the Queen of Angels. Jesus said “It has not entered the mind of man what God has prepared for those who love Him” This is not to say that we can not know something about Heaven. St. Thomas Aquinas gives an enlightening explanation of Heaven. He explains how our souls are united to God in the Beatific Vision. It will involve our intellects and wills, faculties of the soul. Our intellect will be filled with the truth which is God. our “will” will be possessed by the Good that is God. All our desires for happiness will be satisfied. Our body will remain physical but will undergo a change, it will be spiritualized. When Jesus resurrected from the dead He manifested this change. To prove He was not a ghost He allowed Doubting Thomas to feel His wounds, He ate with them. He also showed spiritual qualities.

a) Impassibility: the body would no longer be subject to human needs, pain,hunger, fatigue, heat or cold etc.
b) Brightness: the body will shine with a great radiance, glorified, like the sun.
c) Agility: the body will be able to pass through the universe with the speed of thought
d) Subtility or Spirituality: the body will pass through material substances.

“What is made a natural body will arise as a spiritual one”

Hell is the opposite. The intellect will exist in darkness, never knowing the truth which is God for whom it was created. The “Will” will never be happy enjoying the Good that is God. There will no love only hatred, eternal agony and frustration, despair and sadness. Also there will be an everlasting fire, even the rebellious angels will be subjected to the fire as a humbling punishment. Satan would destroy himself if he could. All of this suffering was due to Free Will. God gave us free will to be like Him, and a choice was made,He was rejected and Hell was created as a natural consequence, God did not create Hell.it is the absence of God. All of Gods’ acts are good. A note to Mikekle: I get headaches too, but keep on trucking, its’ worth it. Thanks for the laugh Geeez!:D:D
 
Hey guys! I just read this book online written by a priest during the 1870s. It has probably the best description of the Beatific Vision I have ever come across. Not to mention, it also discusses the pleasures possible in the glorified bodies. But definitely, the Beatific Vision is a good bit clearer to me than it was before.

Here’s the link:
openlibrary.org/books/OL7198096M/The_happiness_of_Heaven
 
Care to share some highlights?
“This vision of God is an intellectual act by which the soul is filled to overflowing with an intuitive knowledge of God; a knowledge so perfect and complete that all the knowledge of Him attainable, in this world, by prayer and study, is like the feeble glimmer of the lamp compared to the dazzling splendor of the noonday sun.”
  • So, our vision of God is not in the physical sense of seeing him with the eyes, but more like knowing him much more than we ever could in this world.
“In explaining this partaking of the divine nature in heaven, theologians make use of a very apt comparison. If, say they, you thrust a piece of iron into the fire, it soon loses its dark color, and becomes red and hot, like the fire. It is thus made a partaker of the nature of fire, without, however, losing its own essential iron-nature. This illustrates what takes place in the Beatific Vision in relation to the soul. She is united to God, and penetrated by Him. She becomes bright with His brightness, beautiful with His beauty, pure with His purity, happy with His unutterable happiness, and perfect with His divine perfections. In a word, she has become a partaker of the “divine nature,” while she retains her created nature and personal identity.”

-So, we do not lose our personality in Heaven, but we become more like God in His attributes.

“Not only shall we thus retain our personality, when united to God in the Beatific Vision, but we shall, moreover, retain all that belongs to the reality of human nature. For, as St. Thomas teaches, “the glory of heaven does not destroy nature; but perfects it.”* Therefore, when Scripture tells us that “we shall be changed,” we must not imagine that we shall be changed into angels, or into some other nature different from the human. The change means a supernatural elevation and perfection of our whole nature, and not its destruction. The transition or change of the child into the man neither changes nor destroys the faculties of his mind nor the senses of his body; neither does it create new powers or faculties which he had not before. His gradual growth into manhood only develops and perfects what the hand of God had placed in his nature on the day of his creation.”

In the chapter called ‘The Life of the Blessed in Heaven’, this part really stuck out to me:
“2. The life of heaven is one of rest. St. John says: “And I heard a voice from heaven, saying to me, Write: Blessed are they that die in the Lord. From henceforth now, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors.”* This is one of the most captivating features of heavenly life for the poor, and for all others who labored much in this world. It also gives the most exquisite consolation to those who, on account of peculiar difficulties in the practice of virtue, have been fatigued and wearied almost unto death. Their whole spiritual life was one of continual labor and struggle, which at times so disheartened them, that they felt strongly tempted to give up all further attempt at Christian perfection, and to seek consolation and rest in the pleasures of this world. Oh, how happy they now are! How grateful to God, who gave them the grace of final perseverance! They now enter into their rest, which shall never more be disturbed by toil or struggle. They now live a life of everlasting rest, though not one of inactivity. For, as we have already seen, the life of heaven is not one of inactivity, but one in which every energy of mind and body has its full and free action. As our life in heaven is a participation of the life of God himself, it must resemble that Divine Life, which, while it is ineffable rest, is ever active and operative in the creation, conservation, and government, not only of our own world, but of those millions of other worlds that shine above our heads. Nevertheless, this continual exercise of our manifold faculties in heaven, does not, as in this world, generate fatigue, weariness, or disgust; but is the never-failing source of the highest and most rational pleasure.”

-This part in bold really struck me as interesting, because it reminded me of something that Dr. Peter Kreeft had said in one of his books on Heaven, that God may allow us to co-create with Him. Kreeft says this on pg. 111 in “Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Heaven, But Never Dreamed of Asking” - “…our love of artistic creation is both a shadow of the Creator in whose image we are created and a foreshadowing of our creative task to come in Heaven. For our power over nature in Heaven may well extend to co-creating, in union with God…” In other words, does our love of creating, whether in art, music, or writing stories, point to some kind of creative power in Heaven, once our wills have been aligned to the will of God? And according to the words of Fr. Boudreau, just what does this activity exactly consist of? We can only ponder, but will not know anything for certain until we join the ranks of the Blessed (hopefully).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top