Heaven question

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blueriver

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If Jesus says “No man has ascended into Heaven” John 3:13 why does Catholicism believe in afterlife immediately after death?
 
Well, because nobody was able to go to Heaven **before **Jesus redeemed us on the cross.
Now, it’s afterward. . .and it’s a different story.
 
Tantum ergo is right. Our Lord died for our sins, and then were we able to enter into the Eternal Gates.
 
Do not believe everything people say. When you die, you enter a deep sleep without dreams waiting for Jesus Christ. If you are dead in Him, when He’ll come you will resurrect to got to Heaven while the others will resurrect for their judgment. The Bible says the dead are “asleep”. They can do nothing more than wait.

Some churches support the lie that you immediately do to Heaven after your death because purgatory and prayers to saints are based upon that lie.
 
Cristian_B said:
Do not believe everything people say. When you die, you enter a deep sleep without dreams waiting for Jesus Christ. If you are dead in Him, when He’ll come you will resurrect to got to Heaven while the others will resurrect for their judgment. The Bible says the dead are “asleep”. They can do nothing more than wait.

Some churches support the lie that you immediately do to Heaven after your death because purgatory and prayers to saints are based upon that lie.
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Oh goodie my major:D
So you believe in soul-sleep?
 
Soul-sleep is a false teaching and unless someone is willing to look at the scriptures that provides the evidence then one can be led astray by this false teaching.Asleep in Christ is words that are really only a metaphor for one of God’s children who’s physcial body has died and their spirit going to Paradise.whether there is a purging of the soul is not the issue.We know that a child of God spirit will return to the one who gave it.Of course if one dies lost they find themselves in hell.
If you want to put forth the effort into learning soul-sleep is indeed a false teaching I will be glad to teach you in the scriptures on where our spirits go upon physcial death.
 
Cristian_B said:
Do not believe everything people say. When you die, you enter a deep sleep without dreams waiting for Jesus Christ. If you are dead in Him, when He’ll come you will resurrect to got to Heaven while the others will resurrect for their judgment. The Bible says the dead are “asleep”. They can do nothing more than wait.

Some churches support the lie that you immediately do to Heaven after your death because purgatory and prayers to saints are based upon that lie.
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Christ told the “good” thief he would be with Him this day in Paradise. Nothing about sleeping in Christ until the final judgment.
 
momor said:
Christ told the “good” thief he would be with Him this day in Paradise. Nothing about sleeping in Christ until the final judgment.
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Well I’m not sure that’s a good anti soul-sleep argument. Jesus went to ‘hell’ for 3 days first and then resurrected and then went to heaven after 40 more days on Earth, so it was more like 43 days later in Paradise.

However, Heaven is timeless, which is very hard for me to understand, so it’s as if Jesus and the thief were together the very next day because it’s out of time - in fact there aren’t any days in heaven, so Jesus did his best to describe it to the thief.
 
Cristian_B said:
Yes. Give me reasons not to.
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1 Thessalonians 4:13 Brothers,we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep,or to grieve like the rest of men,who have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

Can I ask you since you believe death is more or less a state of nothingness,not knowing anything until the Lord returns and you are resurrected out of your grave,then how is it do you think that if one is asleep in the ground,how can it be that God brings those who are asleep in Christ back with him on that great resurrection day?
The spirit’s come back and the graves will open and that is when the dead in Christ receive their glorified bodies.
We know Solomon said the dead know nothing and he was right.When someone dies,their spirit leaves the physcial body and that is the part of man that knows nothing and awaits the great resurrection.The spirit however goes on to be with the Lord and will return with the Lord on that day of resurrection.🙂
 
Jerok said:
Well I’m not sure that’s a good anti soul-sleep argument. Jesus went to ‘hell’ for 3 days first and then resurrected and then went to heaven after 40 more days on Earth, so it was more like 43 days later in Paradise.

However, Heaven is timeless, which is very hard for me to understand, so it’s as if Jesus and the thief were together the very next day because it’s out of time - in fact there aren’t any days in heaven, so Jesus did his best to describe it to the thief.
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But Jesus is God and God is in Paradise.
 
momor said:
But Jesus is God and God is in Paradise.
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John 14:9 Jesus answered,Don’t you know me,Philip,even after I have been among you such a long time?Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.How can you say,Show us the Father?

Yep,Jesus is God
 
So where in the Bible does it or doesn’t it say whether Heaven is immediate or not ?
 
Cristian_B said:
When you die, you enter a deep sleep without dreams waiting for Jesus Christ.

If you are dead in Him, when He’ll come you will resurrect to got to Heaven

while the others will resurrect for their judgment.

The Bible says the dead are “asleep”.
They can do nothing more than wait.

Some churches support the lie that you immediately do to Heaven after your death

because purgatory and prayers to saints are based upon that lie.
Click to expand...
**
Are you able to back up any of this with scripture? **
 
Cristian_B said:
Do not believe everything people say. When you die, you enter a deep sleep without dreams waiting for Jesus Christ. If you are dead in Him, when He’ll come you will resurrect to got to Heaven while the others will resurrect for their judgment. The Bible says the dead are “asleep”. They can do nothing more than wait.
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Woa! Slow down, skippy! I agree with Louemma here, soul-sleep is a false doctrine not supported by the Bible. “Sleep” is a euphemism. Check out these Scriptures:

1 Peter 3:19
In which he went and preached to the spirits in prison

It would be rather silly for our Lord to preach to those people who can’t hear Him! One thing also to note is that Jesus came to these people who apparently disobeyed the Lord from the time of Noah, see verse 20.

Apocalypse 6:9-10
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”

This is explicit proof that the dead are merely “asleep.” If they were in a deep dreamless sleep as you say, they could hardly call out to the Lord.

BTW, everyone, not just the damned are judged at Christ’s Second Coming [cf Mt 25:31-34].
Some churches support the lie that you immediately do to Heaven after your death because purgatory and prayers to saints are based upon that lie.
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Catholic Answers:
This Rock:
That should be enough to get you started, if you have anymore questions let us know.

🍿
 
blueriver said:
So where in the Bible does it or doesn’t it say whether Heaven is immediate or not ?
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I will give you a little scripture in each post because I just lost a whole post:)So I will Number this post as (1)

In Ecclesiates12:4 when the door to the street are closed and the sound of grinding fades;when men rise up at the sound of birds but all their songs grow faint (5)when men are afraid of heights and of dangers in the streets when the almond tree blossoms and the grass hoppers drags himself along and desire no longer stirred.Then man goes to his eternal home and mourners go about the streets.(6) Remember him-before the silver cord is severed,or the golden bowl is broken,before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,or the wheel broken at the well(7) and the dust returns to the ground it came from,and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

The silver cord spoken of in the scripture is representing the spirit of man and upon death the silver cord is cut.Same as with the pitcher.We know that when a pitcher is shattered what is in it will come out.By the scripture here we also know the body of man goes back to dust but the spirit inside the body returns to God.
 
POST (2)

The soul of man has never been in a state of nothingness upon death.(See the parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus(See Luke 16:19-31)

Before the cross the spirit of man went down into the heart of the earth.After the cross the spirit of man goes to Paradise.

We know Jesus told the theif"Today you will be with me in Paradise(See Luke 23:43)
Now people who teach soul-sleep say"the lord was in the grave for three days so this could not be.However we know by scripture that God is everywhere and at the same time!So we can be confident that if Jesus told the theif "Today you will be with me in Paradise then he was and it’s true because the word of God says this.
 
(3)

Let’s talk about Steven who was stoned to death.(See Acts 7:55 But Stephen,full of the Holy Spirit,looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.(56)Look,he said,I see heaven open and the son of man standing at the right hand of God.

In the scripture we know that Jesus is seated at the right hand of God.Do we suppose by Stephen seeing Jesus standing at the right hand of God that Jesus stood up to receive the spirit of Steven?
Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him,Stephen prayed,Lord Jesus,receive my spirit.(60)Then he fell on his knees and cried out Lord do not hold this sin against them.When he said this,he fell asleep.

We know that by the scriptures Jesus did in fact stand up to receive Stephen’s spirit! What a wonderful thing to know that our sweet Jesus will stand up to receive us into the kingdom of God.
Also we know that Stephen did not fall asleep but he died and Jesus stood up to receive Stephen’s spirit and his physcial body fell into the sleep of death.
 
(4)
Let’s move along to Paul.Paul was stoned and left for dead at Lystra(See Acts 14:19-20) we also know that he had some type of experience.either a vision or something we know as a life after death experience and Paul talks about this in (See 2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven.Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-God only knows.(3) And I know that this man -whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know but God knows(4) was caught up to Paradise.He heard in expressible things,things that man is not permitted to tell.

So by these scriptures,Paul tells us that Paradise is in the third Heaven and so by this we know that the theif is indeed up in Paradise and not down in the ground sleeping.Paradise is UP and not down.🙂
 
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