Heaven

[Nickkname]

Non-Catholics: I know what the Church teaches about heaven, but I was wondering what your churches and religions teach about heaven. Is it the same as the Church’s, or is it different?

Also, please don’t let this thread dissolve into a major theological dispute or an argument over who’s right and who’s wrong. There is enough of that already on the CAF. Thank you very much! ^___^

 

[Nickkname]

Here is the Church’s teaching on heaven, taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

II. Heaven

1023 Those who die in God’s grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they “see him as he is,” face to face:596

By virtue of our apostolic authority, we define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ’s holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .) already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment - and this since the Ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven - have been, are and will be in heaven, in the heavenly Kingdom and celestial paradise with Christ, joined to the company of the holy angels. Since the Passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ, these souls have seen and do see the divine essence with an intuitive vision, and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature.597

1024 This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity - this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed - is called “heaven.” Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.

1025 To live in heaven is “to be with Christ.” the elect live "in Christ,"598 but they retain, or rather find, their true identity, their own name.599

For life is to be with Christ; where Christ is, there is life, there is the kingdom.600

1026 By his death and Resurrection, Jesus Christ has “opened” heaven to us. the life of the blessed consists in the full and perfect possession of the fruits of the redemption accomplished by Christ. He makes partners in his heavenly glorification those who have believed in him and remained faithful to his will. Heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ.

1027 This mystery of blessed communion with God and all who are in Christ is beyond all understanding and description. Scripture speaks of it in images: life, light, peace, wedding feast, wine of the kingdom, the Father’s house, the heavenly Jerusalem, paradise: "no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him."601

1028 Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man’s immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. the Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory “the beatific vision”:

How great will your glory and happiness be, to be allowed to see God, to be honored with sharing the joy of salvation and eternal light with Christ your Lord and God, . . . to delight in the joy of immortality in the Kingdom of heaven with the righteous and God’s friends.602

1029 In the glory of heaven the blessed continue joyfully to fulfill God’s will in relation to other men and to all creation. Already they reign with Christ; with him "they shall reign for ever and ever."603

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596 ⇒ 1 Jn 3:2; cf. ⇒ 1 Cor 13:12; ⇒ Rev 22:4.

597 Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000; cf. LG 49.

598 ⇒ Phil 1:23; cf. ⇒ Jn 14:3; ⇒ 1 Thess 4:17.

599 Cf. ⇒ Rev 2:17.

600 St. Ambrose, In Luc., 10, 121: PL 15, 1834A.

601 ⇒ 1 Cor 2:9.

602 St. Cyprian, Ep. 58, 10, 1: CSEL 3/2, 665.

603 ⇒ Rev 22:5; cf. ⇒ Mt 25:21, ⇒ 23.

 

[Sam_777]

Non-Catholics: I know what the Church teaches about heaven, but I was wondering what your churches and religions teach about heaven. Is it the same as the Church’s, or is it different?

In Islam:

• Marriage with 72 Virgins (i.e., sex) .
• Gardens and fountains, (Quran 15:45)
• Bubbling spring, thrones, cushions, rich carpets, (Quran 88: 12) .
• People in paradise will be be served by handsome youths, (Quran 52:24)
• Rivers of water, rivers of milk, rivers of wine, rivers of honey, all kinds of fruits, (Quran 47:15).
• Garments of fine silk and heavy brocade, bracelets of silver, (Quran 76:21)
• Vessels of silver and goblets of crystal (Quran 76:15) .
• Meat will be served (Quran 52:22)

 

[Nickkname]

In Islam:

• Marriage with 72 Virgins (i.e., sex) .
• Gardens and fountains, (Quran 15:45)
• Bubbling spring, thrones, cushions, rich carpets, (Quran 88: 12) .
• People in paradise will be be served by handsome youths, (Quran 52:24)
• Rivers of water, rivers of milk, rivers of wine, rivers of honey, all kinds of fruits, (Quran 47:15).
• Garments of fine silk and heavy brocade, bracelets of silver, (Quran 76:21)
• Vessels of silver and goblets of crystal (Quran 76:15) .
• Meat will be served (Quran 52:22)

Fascinating. It’s a beautiful image of heaven, too, I think. But you didn’t give a quote for the 72 virgins. Is it an oral tradition? (Note: I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate over the 72 virgins…).

 

[ralphinal]

In Islam:

• Marriage with 72 Virgins (i.e., sex) .
• Gardens and fountains, (Quran 15:45)
• Bubbling spring, thrones, cushions, rich carpets, (Quran 88: 12) .
• People in paradise will be be served by handsome youths, (Quran 52:24)
• Rivers of water, rivers of milk, rivers of wine, rivers of honey, all kinds of fruits, (Quran 47:15).
• Garments of fine silk and heavy brocade, bracelets of silver, (Quran 76:21)
• Vessels of silver and goblets of crystal (Quran 76:15) .
• Meat will be served (Quran 52:22)

What about being close to God? Seeing the Face of God? IS that not in Islamic Heaven?

 

[Publisher]

Non-Catholics: I know what the Church teaches about heaven, but I was wondering what your churches and religions teach about heaven. Is it the same as the Church’s, or is it different?

Also, please don’t let this thread dissolve into a major theological dispute or an argument over who’s right and who’s wrong. There is enough of that already on the CAF. Thank you very much! ^___^

Most Friends believe in an “after life”…but it is not the “after life” that matters…it is this life…eternity begins now…it is a present reality…if the eternal quality of life continues after death…great…but for most Friends I know…“heaven” begins now among us in the Gathered Meeting…eternity begins each day with us as we share the love of God and walk in the Light.

Most of us believe we will one day be Called back to the Presence…but we believe we live in the Presence already…it has been said among us…“If you want to play the piano in heaven…you’d better start taking lessons now.”

 

[Evlogitos]

The Orthodox view heaven as standing in the presence of the unmediated energies of God, eternally.

Incidentally, this is also how the Orthodox view hell (gehenna).

The difference lies in the state of the soul. The righteous souls who have become “partakers of the Divine Nature” (2 Pet. 1:4), having humbled themselves, will experience the energies of God as joy, love, peace passing understanding, friendship, union, light, and glory. The unrighteous, because they hate God, will experience them as fire and torment.

 

[Nickkname]

The Orthodox view heaven as standing in the presence of the unmediated energies of God, eternally.

Incidentally, this is also how the Orthodox view hell (gehenna).

The difference lies in the state of the soul. The righteous souls who have become “partakers of the Divine Nature” (2 Pet. 1:4), having humbled themselves, will experience the energies of God as joy, love, peace passing understanding, friendship, union, light, and glory. The unrighteous, because they hate God, will experience them as fire and torment.

Ooh, now that’s a new way to look at heaven and hell! So everyone goes to the same “place”, but not everyone experiences God’s prescence the same way, just in accordance to the state of their souls?

 

[wmscott]

In Islam:

• Marriage with 72 Virgins (i.e., sex) .
• Gardens and fountains, (Quran 15:45)
• Bubbling spring, thrones, cushions, rich carpets, (Quran 88: 12) .
• People in paradise will be be served by handsome youths, (Quran 52:24)
• Rivers of water, rivers of milk, rivers of wine, rivers of honey, all kinds of fruits, (Quran 47:15).
• Garments of fine silk and heavy brocade, bracelets of silver, (Quran 76:21)
• Vessels of silver and goblets of crystal (Quran 76:15) .
• Meat will be served (Quran 52:22)

with all due respect, are the virgins and handsome youths in hell? Who are they? What did they do to deserve being a servant for all eternity? Sounds like this heaven is a little awkward.

 

[Evlogitos]

Ooh, now that’s a new way to look at heaven and hell!

Actually, it’s a very old way, based on the Fathers of the early Church.

So everyone goes to the same “place”, but not everyone experiences God’s prescence the same way, just in accordance to the state of their souls?

Exactly. You see, Orthodoxy upholds two things above all: the love of God, and the absolute free will of man.

God is Love. This means that God “is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

“The gift of God is eternal life.” Man was created with the purpose of standing always in God’s presence in a communion of light and love. Man has done his darndest to break this covenant, but the Lord’s promises are always kept, even to the ungrateful.

The distinction comes because of the way we view the nature of man. We believe that the sin of Adam brought the curse of death upon him and upon all his descendants, and it is for this reason that our nature is weakened and we experience strife and struggle in the flesh. But Christ came as the second Adam, the new Adam, and as Adam, the Man gave death to all men, so the Son of Man gives life to all men.

Thus, all men will be raised on the last day: “where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

So man’s destiny is to possess eternal life, and stand in the unmediated presence of the Grace of God (which we believe to be manifest in His uncreated glory). However, because man is given free will to love God or to hate Him, the end effect of those who partake of His glory will be dramatically different. The righteous will rejoice, because they have made their hearts into “mirrors,” gladly reflecting the glory of the Lord and becoming glorified in their own right. The unrighteous, however, whose hearts are far from God, will experience God’s glory as something they detest in eternity, even as they detested it in life, and thus, rather than illuminating them, the light of God will blind and torment them. It is imperative to note, however, that this is not because God does not extend all His love and mercy toward them; it is because they, in their own free will, have decided to hate His love and mercy, therefore experiencing it as something painful and unpleasant.

Thus, the idea that a loving God “sends people to hell” is preposterous to the Orthodox; God does not decree that anyone not measuring up gets burnt to a crisp. Instead, God bestows his mercy and glory upon all men, but some have freely chosen, in the darkness of their hearts, to hate God’s gifts, thereby experiencing them as torment.

 

[Nickkname]

with all due respect, are the virgins and handsome youths in hell? Who are they? What did they do to deserve being a servant for all eternity? Sounds like this heaven is a little awkward.

Please, no theological debates. I hope and pray that this thread just be about the topic of heaven. It’s meant to be a common ground among all religious, Catholic and non-Catholic, where all can discuss, dialogue, rather than debate, their different beliefs on heaven. And I chose heaven because it’s better to lift one’s mind to heavenly things than to bring it down to earthly things or things beneath the earth. I hope that this clears up the issue.