Heaven

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But Jesus ascended and Mary was assumed to… somewhere. Where ARE they? :confused:
We can’t know that it’s a phiscal space or place in our universe. It’s probably inconceivable to us anyway so we can only attempt to use human concepts and terms to understand it. Either way we know that it’s definitely a state, of union with God that causes ineffable, boundless happiness.
 
If you’re looking for Jesus you’ll find Him with His mother!!

This may come as news to you, but it is a misconception to believe God is not a personal being distinct from the universe—that He is the same as the universe.
Heaven, Hell and Purgatory are not just names given to those spheres of energy or products of our minds or the result of our attempt to describe something we do not fully understand.
They are physical realities.
God is a personal being who created the whole universe distinct from Himself and invited angels and man to share His eternal glory.
Since man has body and soul, his perfect reward or punishment must be both spiritual and material.
God, who acts perfectly in everything, made distinct material places for both the good and the evil men to stay after their judgment.
This good material place is called Heaven and the evil material place is called Hell.
Christ Himself also needs a material place to stay in accordance with the requirements of His perfect human-divine nature.
The Angels who were in the spiritual sphere adoring God are also in the material Heaven - at least after the resurrection of Our Lord - to glorify and serve Our Lord and Our Lady, their King and Queen.
Since Jesus Christ is God and Man, it is from a material place, Heaven, that He governs the universe He created.

And Mary Christmas to all members of the Body of Christ, wishing you a Catholic supernatural peace. And may it be conserved in you throughout the year to come.
 
If you’re looking for Jesus you’ll find Him with His mother!!

This may come as news to you, but it is a misconception to believe God is not a personal being distinct from the universe—that He is the same as the universe.
Heaven, Hell and Purgatory are not just names given to those spheres of energy or products of our minds or the result of our attempt to describe something we do not fully understand.
They are physical realities.
God is a personal being who created the whole universe distinct from Himself and invited angels and man to share His eternal glory.
Since man has body and soul, his perfect reward or punishment must be both spiritual and material.
God, who acts perfectly in everything, made distinct material places for both the good and the evil men to stay after their judgment.
This good material place is called Heaven and the evil material place is called Hell.
Christ Himself also needs a material place to stay in accordance with the requirements of His perfect human-divine nature.
The Angels who were in the spiritual sphere adoring God are also in the material Heaven - at least after the resurrection of Our Lord - to glorify and serve Our Lord and Our Lady, their King and Queen.
Since Jesus Christ is God and Man, it is from a material place, Heaven, that He governs the universe He created.

And Mary Christmas to all members of the Body of Christ, wishing you a Catholic supernatural peace. And may it be conserved in you throughout the year to come.
God is Spirit. He and heaven are quite inconceivablet to us in the present state we find ourselves in. So we can speculate all we want about these things but in the end 1 Cor 2:9 states it best.
 
God is Spirit. He and heaven are quite inconceivablet to us in the present state we find ourselves in. So we can speculate all we want about these things but in the end 1 Cor 2:9 states it best.
Heaven Exists And Is A Place

Of course God is a pure spirit. But He is distinct from His creation.
And we don’t need to speculate. This is Catholic doctrine on on Heaven, Hell & Purgatory.
That’s the Catholic concept. Yours is denial of Heaven as a physical place.
At the moment the Divine Word became incarnate, the Second Person of the Trinity adopted a human form in space and time.
He instituted the Eucharist and becomes substantially present in the visible consecrated Hosts.
Next to God the Father’s (physical) throne in Heaven, at His right hand, is seated Our Lord Jesus Christ. This is a fundamental dogma of our Creed.

These verses speak of His gifts (not Heaven).

1 CORINTHIANS - Chapter 2
9 But as it is written: That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him:

ISAIAS - Chapter 64
4 From the beginning of the world they have not heard, nor perceived with the ears: the eye hath not seen, O God, besides thee, what things thou hast prepared for them that wait for thee.

The Holy Spirit shows and reveals to us what and how great are the gifts (the miracles, wisdom, virtues, and grace of Christ) given to us, the Apostles, by God, and to others who love God—so great indeed that eye has not seen them, nor have they entered into the heart of man.
 
Heaven Exists And Is A Place

Of course God is a pure spirit. But He is distinct from His creation.
And we don’t need to speculate. This is Catholic doctrine on on Heaven, Hell & Purgatory.
That’s the Catholic concept. Yours is denial of Heaven as a physical place.
At the moment the Divine Word became incarnate, the Second Person of the Trinity adopted a human form in space and time.
He instituted the Eucharist and becomes substantially present in the visible consecrated Hosts.
Next to God the Father’s (physical) throne in Heaven, at His right hand, is seated Our Lord Jesus Christ. This is a fundamental dogma of our Creed.

These verses speak of His gifts (not Heaven).

1 CORINTHIANS - Chapter 2
9 But as it is written: That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him:

ISAIAS - Chapter 64
4 From the beginning of the world they have not heard, nor perceived with the ears: the eye hath not seen, O God, besides thee, what things thou hast prepared for them that wait for thee.

The Holy Spirit shows and reveals to us what and how great are the gifts (the miracles, wisdom, virtues, and grace of Christ) given to us, the Apostles, by God, and to others who love God—so great indeed that eye has not seen them, nor have they entered into the heart of man.
Ok, then show me Catholic doctrine that states that heaven is a physical place. Its fine with me; just not aware of any such teaching.
 
I’ve asked before, long ago, and am hoping for some new insights…where exactly is heaven? Is it like the priest on the New Theological Movement says, that it’s in a glorified, uncontainable place outside our universe or where?
THAT"S as good of a guess as any:thumbsup:

Where exactly we do not know; however we CAN know WHAT it is:)

GBY

Merry Christmas
 
THAT"S as good of a guess as any:thumbsup:

Where exactly we do not know; however we CAN know WHAT it is:)

GBY

Merry Christmas
Thanks and Merry Christmas to you and everybody here!
 
I’ve asked before, long ago, and am hoping for some new insights…where exactly is heaven? Is it like the priest on the New Theological Movement says, that it’s in a glorified, uncontainable place outside our universe or where?
Blessed Henry Suso (1295 - 1366) Dominican and German mystic

-Now, then, ascend thou on high with Me. I will carry thee thither in spirit, and will give thee, after a rude similitude, a distant glimpse into the future. Behold, above the ninth heaven, which is incalculably more than a hundred thousand times larger than the entire earth, there is another heaven which is called Coelum Empyreum, the fiery heaven, so called, not from its being of fire, but from its immeasurably transparent brightness, which is immovable and unchangeable in its nature; and this is the glorious court in which the heavenly hosts dwell, where the morning star with the rest praises Me, and all the children of God rejoice.

There stand, encompassed with inconceivable light, the everlasting thrones, from which the evil spirits were hurled, in which the elect are seated. See how the delightful city shines with beaten gold, how it glitters with costly jewels, inlaid with precious stones, transparent as crystal, reflecting red roses, white lilies, and all living flowers. Now, look on the beautiful heavenly fields themselves. Lo! here all delights of summer, here sunny meads of May, here the very valley of bliss, here the glad moments are seen flitting from joy to joy; here harps and viols, here singing, and leaping, and dancing, hand in hand for ever! here the gratification of every desire, here pleasure without pain in everlasting security!

Now, look how the countless multitude drink to their hearts’ desire at the living fountains of gushing water; look how they feast their eyes on the pure, clear mirror of the revealed Divinity, in which all things are made plain and evident to them. Steal a little nearer, and mark how the sweet queen of the celestial kingdom, whom thou lovest with so much ardour, soars aloft in dignity and joy over the whole celestial host, reclining tenderly on her beloved, encircled with rose-flowers and lilies of the valley. See how her ravishing beauty fills with delight and wonder all the heavenly choirs.

Oh, now behold what will rejoice thy heart and soul, and see how the mother of compassion has turned her compassionate eyes towards thee and all sinners, and how powerfully she appeals to her beloved Son, and intercedes with Him. Now, turn round with the eyes of thy pure understanding, and behold also how the high seraphim and the love-abounding souls of the seraphic choirs blaze up perpetually in Me; how the bright company of the cherubim have a bright infusion and effusion of My eternal inconceivable light, how the high thrones and hosts, the lordships, powers, and dominations, regularly fulfill My beautiful and eternal order in the universality of nature.

Mark, too, how the third host of angelic spirits executes My high messages and decrees in the particular parts of the world; and see, how lovingly, how joyfully, and variously the multitude is marshalled, and what a beautiful sight it is! Turn next thy glance and see how My chosen disciples and best beloved friends sit in repose and honour upon their awful judgment-seats, how the martyrs glitter in their rose-coloured garments, the confessors shine in their vernal beauty, how refulgent the virgins appear in their angelic purity, how all the heavenly host overflows with divine sweetness! Oh, what a company! Oh, what a joyous band!

Blessed, thrice blessed is he who was born to dwell where they dwell! Lo, to this very fatherland I shall carry home from misery and tribulation, arrayed in all the richness of her rich morning gift, My beloved bride in My arms. I shall adorn her interiorly with the beautiful garment of the eternal light of that glory which will exalt her above all her natural powers. She will be clothed exteriorly with the glorified body, which is seven times brighter than the sun’s light, swift, subtle, and to suffering, impassive; then I shall put on her the crown of delight, and on the crown a golden garland.

catholictreasury.info/books/eternal_wisdom/ew13.php
 
The Catholic Church always taught Heaven is a place.

**Rite of Baptism
**
The minister of baptism asks the following questions:
  • Do you believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
  • Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
  • Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
To each question, the catechumen, or, in the case of an infant, the parents and sponsor(s) (godparent(s)) in his or her place, answers “I do.” Then the celebrant says:
This is our faith. This is the faith of the Church. We are proud to profess it, in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And all respond: Amen.

**The Heavenly Session
**
APOSTLES’ CREED. A formula of belief, in twelve articles, containing the fundamental doctrines of Christianity, whose authorship (in substance if not in words) tradition ascribes to the Apostles.

…He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead….

Apostles’ Creed still remains the most common profession of the Christian faith in the world.

The Session of Christ is one of the doctrines specifically mentioned in the Apostles’ Creed, where “sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty” immediately follows the statement of the Ascension.
In the Bible, the “right hand” is the special ‘place’ of honour.
  • According to the Book of Acts, Acts 2:33, after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension, he was “exalted to the right hand of God.”
  • The idea of Christ’s heavenly session appears a second time in the account of Peter’s preaching in the Book of Acts. In Acts 5:31, Peter says that God exalted Jesus, “to his own right hand”
  • In the Epistle to the Hebrews, Hebrews 10:12, it says that Jesus “sat down at the right hand of God,” after he had “offered for all time one sacrifice for sins.”
  • Other New Testament passages that speak of Christ as being at God’s right hand are Ephesians 1:20 (God seated Christ “at his right hand in the heavenly realms”) and 1Peter 3:22 (Jesus has “gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand”).
  • In Matthew Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62, Jesus says to Caiaphas, “you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power”.
  • Acts 7:55 says that, as he was dying, Saint Stephen saw Jesus ‘standing’ at the right hand of God.
  • In the Book of Revelation, Revelation 2:1, on the other hand, Jesus is referred to as ‘walking’ among the seven golden lampstands.
**Bodies Exist In A Place
**
Jesus Christ, yesterday, today, and forever…
having become man, the Son of god will always remain man.

If heaven is not a material place, then where does the glorified humanity of Jesus, and of Mary, reside, and what about our glorified bodies at the end of time? They may be glorified, but they are still bodies and not completely spiritual.
Our bodies will decay and return to the dust from which they come. But only for awhile. In God’s own time, provided we have been faithful to the divine will before death, these dead bodies will walk and speak and hear and see again. They will be glorified. This means they will be immortal, never to die again. They will be resplendent with beauty, never again endure pain, and will be able to move through space and matter, not unlike the risen body of Jesus Christ.

The Book of Revelation describes the Seven Spirits of God which surround the throne, and John wishes his readers in the Seven Asian churches to be blessed with grace from God, from the seven who are before God’s throne, and from Jesus Christ in Heaven. John states that in front of the throne there appears to be “a sea of glass, clear as crystal”, and that the throne is surrounded by a lion, an ox, a man, and a flying eagle; each with six wings and covered with eyes, who constantly cry “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come” repeatedly. It is also said that "out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices.”
This bride is the “celestial Jerusalem” which here signifies at times its actual place in Heaven and at times the Blessed.

What’s to prevent God as pure Spirit from having a physical presence?
What’s to prevent God from having a throne in Heaven?
 
Are Jesus and Mary’s bodies resurrected bodies and are they spiritual bodies?
 
Are Jesus and Mary’s bodies resurrected bodies and are they spiritual bodies?
Wow!!:hmmm:
What the deal is?
You joined this forum 11 yrs. ago and you don’t know the answer to that question?
Tell me something…
Who would it take for you to believe?
Maybe you should start a poll thread.
Or maybe start reading a catechism.
 
Wow!!:hmmm:
What the deal is?
You joined this forum 11 yrs. ago and you don’t know the answer to that question?
Tell me something…
Who would it take for you to believe?
Maybe you should start a poll thread.
Or maybe start reading a catechism.
Maybe you should practice more charity.
 
The Church in her wisdom just doesn’t get real specific about the nature of heaven. From the section on the catechism titled “Heaven”:

1024 This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity - this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed - is called “heaven.” Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.

And in the same section she continues, with similar understanding to that which I’ve already posted:

1027 This mystery of blessed communion with God and all who are in Christ is beyond all understanding and description. Scripture speaks of it in images: life, light, peace, wedding feast, wine of the kingdom, the Father’s house, the heavenly Jerusalem, paradise: "no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him."603
 
I think the CCC is quite ambiguous and as you can cite your position there I could do the same, such as:
CCC #663
Henceforth Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father: “By ‘the Father’s right hand’ we understand the glory and honor of divinity, where he who exists as Son of God before all ages, indeed as God, of one being with the Father, is seated bodily after he became incarnate and his flesh was glorified.”

I cannot accept all the revealing references in Holy Scripture as merely metaphorical.

If our physical bodies are to be resurrected and glorified, that means some kind physical place will be required for our eternal existence.

Jesus’ and Mary’s bodies are in heaven.
Why would bodies not be in a place?

Of course Heaven is not an earthly space but whether it is outside the universe in a non-containing place or a glorified place, it is still a place rather than a state.

If wherever God is, there is Heaven and since God is everywhere, Heaven is everywhere.
This would deny Hell.
Surely Hell is distinct from Heaven.

Hell is indeed a place. While the fallen angels need no material dwelling in which to be localized, after the general judgment, the human denizens of Hell will certainly need a (material) place for their flesh to occupy. This is part of the dogma of the resurrection of the body. The same is true of Heaven, with this difference only: We know there are bodies in Heaven now (Jesus and Mary at least), but we know no such thing concerning Hell.

Heaven means this place, and especially this condition, of supreme beatitude. Had God created no bodies, but only pure spirits, heaven would not need to be a place; it would signify merely the state of the angels who rejoice in the possession of God. But in fact heaven is also a place. There we find the humanity of Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the angels, and the souls of the saints. Though we cannot say with certitude where this place is to be found, or what its relation is to the whole universe, revelation does not allow us to doubt of its existence.
~Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange
 
Are Jesus and Mary’s bodies resurrected bodies and are they spiritual bodies?
The Doctrine of the RCC is that they are BOTH:thumbsup:

[THEY WERE] -ASSUMED INTO HEAVEN

2nd. Kings 2: 8-14 Then “Eli’jah took his mantle, and rolled it up, and struck the water, and the water was parted to the one side and to the other, till the two of them could go over on dry ground. When they had crossed, Eli’jah said to Eli’sha, “Ask what I shall do for you, before I am taken from you.” And Eli’sha said, “I pray you, let me inherit a double share of your spirit.” And he said, “You have asked a hard thing; yet, if you see me as I am being taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if you do not see me, it shall not be so.” And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Eli’jah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Eli’sha saw it and he cried, “My father, my father! the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!” And he saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and rent them in two pieces. And he took up the mantle of Eli’jah that had fallen from him, and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan. Then he took the mantle of Eli’jah that had fallen from him, and struck the water, saying, “Where is the LORD, the God of Eli’jah?” And when he had struck the water, the water was parted to the one side and to the other; and Eli’sha went over.”

Gen. 5: 22-24 Enoch walked with God after the birth of Methu’selah three hundred years, and had other sons and daughters. Thus all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. [ASSUMED Body and Soul into Heaven].

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.

NOTE Jesus Ascended, while Mary and the OT men were ASSUMED:thumbsup:

GBY

Here for your consideration is some history
 
Merry Christmas all! Hope to see you in heaven, whatever and wherever that may be, if we don’t meet beforehand. 🙂
 
  • Spirits don’t have bodies.
  • Souls (spirits) are immortal.
  • Our bodies will one day be immortal too.
  • We die because we are sinners.
  • Our body separates from the soul as the penalty for sin.
  • After our particular judgment the soul that is separated from the body goes to heaven, hell or purgatory.
  • Our bodies stay behind and immediately they begin to decay.
  • Our bodies will remain in the earth until the day of final judgment, when God will raise them back to life and reunite them forever to our souls.
  • Christ rose from the dead as the first fruits of those who sleep.
  • Our risen body will receive along with the spirit its well-earned reward.
  • Our risen bodies will be glorified.
  • They will be made immortal never to die again.
  • They will have a will that is united with God.
  • They will move with the speed of light, beautiful beyond conception, shining with the radiance of the sun…
  • We will live in a society, meet people, be together, see each other, hear each other, touch each other, be together with our families and loved ones, talk things over in the company of the Saints…
:love::angel1::bounce::heaven::hug3:
 
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