Heavenly Father or God-Mormon

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How blessed you are! May Our Lord and His (and our) Ever-Virgin Mother continue to bless you.

Paul
 
This is my answer to the two posts above, both of which ask the same question: why does God keep us from having a relationship with our Mother in Heaven?

The answer is…He doesn’t.

We are eternal beings. WE believe that we had a loving relationship with our Parents before we came to earth, we will have such a relationship again when we go home, and our time here on earth is very brief for the amount of learning and work we have to do.

Very brief. If we are very fortunate, we have 80 to 100 years here…compared to eternity?

Pffft.

So if we aren’t told everything right here and right now, we’ll learn it all eventually.

As for me, my time on earth is going to be shorter than that. I probably won’t make seventy…but for some reason, I just can’t get all that upset about all the wonderful things I don’t know yet, because I will get to learn them.
 
iepuras said:
Thanks for posting this. These are my thoughts exactly.

As a Mormon, I was always taught that Heavenly Father is the actual father of my spirit much like how my father on earth is the father of my physical body. If this is the case, what kind of father prevents his children from having a relationship with their mother? A cruel and abusive one.

I cannot tell you how elated I was when I learned about Mary and her role in salvation history in RCIA. All the former Protestants in my RCIA Class struggled with it. I loved it because Mary is one of the things my heart had been aching for.

Have a blessed Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary!
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Mormons teach that God will not allow us to know our Heavenly Mother is this mortal state because she is “too sacred” and perhaps people would somehow dishonor her, and Heavenly Father would never permit that.

This smacks of Islam, where women are so “sacred” that they must wear burkhas and cannot drive a car or go out of the house without a male relative to escort them. To me, this sacred-ness looks a lot like bondage.

Are women so fragile, and is a righteous man so thin-skinned that they cannot slough off the barbs of fools? Methinks ye underestimate us.

I see a woman on a pedestal - but she is chained to that pedestal with no way to escape. That is Islam and that is Mormonism. It is no wonder that LDS women suffer the US’s highest rate of female clinical depression, anti-depression meds and suicide.

Lord, rescue them.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
dianaiad said:
This is my answer to the two posts above, both of which ask the same question: why does God keep us from having a relationship with our Mother in Heaven?

The answer is…He doesn’t.

We are eternal beings. WE believe that we had a loving relationship with our Parents before we came to earth, we will have such a relationship again when we go home, and our time here on earth is very brief for the amount of learning and work we have to do.

Very brief. If we are very fortunate, we have 80 to 100 years here…compared to eternity?

Pffft.

So if we aren’t told everything right here and right now, we’ll learn it all eventually.

As for me, my time on earth is going to be shorter than that. I probably won’t make seventy…but for some reason, I just can’t get all that upset about all the wonderful things I don’t know yet, because I will get to learn them.
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The supposed one true church certainly keeps its members from having a relationship with Heavenly Mother. Women have been excommunicated from the LDS church for advocating prayer to Heavenly Mother. There are probably a fair number of LDS women who do pray to her, but they really cannot talk about it or they may end up being disciplined.

Since you like analogies, here’s one. A child is going off to college. She will be gone for only four years. Compared to her total life, this is a very short time. Her father tells her that she has a great loving relationship with both him and her mother. That relationship will continue when she comes back home in four years. However, when she is away at college, she can only call home and talk to her father. He will tell her about himself and what he is up to, but she won’t be able to talk to her mother or learn what is going on with her during those four years. In fact, if she even asks about her mother or expresses a desire to talk to her, she could get in trouble. He tells her that it is ok because she will have a great loving relationship with her mother again.

If your neighbor treated his daughter this way, I would expect you to be shocked because it goes against what a loving family relationship should be. And you see nothing wrong when your Heavenly Father does the same thing? 🤷
 
iepuras said:
The supposed one true church certainly keeps its members from having a relationship with Heavenly Mother. Women have been excommunicated from the LDS church for advocating prayer to Heavenly Mother. There are probably a fair number of LDS women who do pray to her, but they really cannot talk about it or they may end up being disciplined.

Since you like analogies, here’s one. A child is going off to college. She will be gone for only four years. Compared to her total life, this is a very short time. Her father tells her that she has a great loving relationship with both him and her mother. That relationship will continue when she comes back home in four years. However, when she is away at college, she can only call home and talk to her father. He will tell her about himself and what he is up to, but she won’t be able to talk to her mother or learn what is going on with her during those four years. In fact, if she even asks about her mother or expresses a desire to talk to her, she could get in trouble. He tells her that it is ok because she will have a great loving relationship with her mother again.

If your neighbor treated his daughter this way, I would expect you to be shocked because it goes against what a loving family relationship should be. And you see nothing wrong when your Heavenly Father does the same thing? 🤷
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A powerful analogy. Well done, iepuras!

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
dianaiad said:
This is my answer to the two posts above, both of which ask the same question: why does God keep us from having a relationship with our Mother in Heaven?

The answer is…He doesn’t.

We are eternal beings. WE believe that we had a loving relationship with our Parents before we came to earth, we will have such a relationship again when we go home, and our time here on earth is very brief for the amount of learning and work we have to do.

Very brief. If we are very fortunate, we have 80 to 100 years here…compared to eternity?

Pffft.

So if we aren’t told everything right here and right now, we’ll learn it all eventually.

As for me, my time on earth is going to be shorter than that. I probably won’t make seventy…but for some reason, I just can’t get all that upset about all the wonderful things I don’t know yet, because I will get to learn them.
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Hmmm, so… “You can’t have a relationship with your mother while you are alive. But if you follow all the rules and do everything the men tell you to do, and pay 10% of everything you earn, then after you are dead I will let you have a relationship with your mother.”

Does that seem like a loving father’s treatment of his daughters? I have two daughters and I would never treat them that way, nor would my dear wife allow me to.

If you think that is God’s way of treating His daughters, then may God have mercy on your daughters!

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
dianaiad said:
Like I said, don’t take that analogy very far. It’s not all THAT good, especially since “God” is not a job, but Who He IS. The Three don’t ‘Trade off,’ but are all three God, all the time.

But it’s “God,” not “Gods.”

Oh, never mind…I’m not doing a great job here.
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LDS writings, including from Joseph Smith, refer to them as both “God” and “Gods”.
 
LivingWaters7 said:
LDS writings, including from Joseph Smith, refer to them as both “God” and “Gods”.
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Including The Pearl of Great Price, which teaches the Mormon idea of a Council of Gods, which in turn Joseph Fielding Smith taught that is what the Mormon Godhead refers to. A Council of three Gods, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Which of course has no relationship to the Christian doctrine of Trinity. None, whatsoever.
 
dianaiad said:
This is my answer to the two posts above, both of which ask the same question: why does God keep us from having a relationship with our Mother in Heaven?

The answer is…He doesn’t.

We are eternal beings. WE believe that we had a loving relationship with our Parents before we came to earth, we will have such a relationship again when we go home, and our time here on earth is very brief for the amount of learning and work we have to do.

Very brief. If we are very fortunate, we have 80 to 100 years here…compared to eternity?

Pffft.

So if we aren’t told everything right here and right now, we’ll learn it all eventually.

As for me, my time on earth is going to be shorter than that. I probably won’t make seventy…but for some reason, I just can’t get all that upset about all the wonderful things I don’t know yet, because I will get to learn them.
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Interestingly, while Protestants and Catholics share belief in the orthodox Trinity as promulgated by the Council of Nicaea, it is Catholics and Mormons who both profess belief in a “Heavenly Mother”, though by this title we refer to two very different persons. Catholics do have a very special spiritual relationship with Mary as our adopted Heavenly Mother in this life, and will even more so in the next. For Protestants this is one of the biggest stumbling blocks when examining Catholicism. My wife is Pentecostal, and she is extremely wary of my devotion to the Blessed Mother. Do Mormons find our Marian devotion equally off-putting?
 
dianaiad said:
If God the Father also had a father…and we believe that He probably did. After all, Jesus the Christ certainly had one, and is He not God?

But if He did, what does that mean to us, here and now? Not a thing. God created the universe and everything in it. There is nothing that exists that was not created by Him.

So…???

Seems a lot simpler to me than a whole pantheon of angels and demons and everything else that many Christians have come up with.
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Refusing to examine why the Creator of God is not worshiped is unimportant?

So we’re just not allowed to ask that question? When you say that God created the universe and everything in it, you can only say that in the sense that there’s only one God of this world. Countless Gods exist in who rule over other worlds, as the hymn states. Mormons believe in more gods and godesses than any hindu or pagan I’ve ever seen or heard about.

You’ll say “…but we only worship the Father, drac!”. I understand that, but to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the Father came forth from creation. Even the word ‘creation’ itself has a rather peculiar definition in LDS faith. Joseph Smith, in the King Follett sermon, said that God does not create in this sense of bring matter forth from nothingness. He “creates” in the sense that He re-organizes matter. So, The Father, evidently, could not say “Be!” and have the universe come into existance.

So, it follows that matter has existed longer than God has [wa audhubillah]. There’s no way around that.

Doesn’t that trouble you?
 
andrewstx said:
This is an outgrowth of the thread: Do Mormons believe, but from a different approach. This thread is not intended as an insult to LDS people at all.

But who do Mormons put their faith in? God or Heavenly Father? Are they the same? I personally am an ex-Mormon so I know a little about it.

Mormons as they speak hardly refer to God. It is Heavenly Father they speak of and rarely God.

Heavenly Father as a phrase is not unique to Mormons. Orthodox Christians use the phrase, but with a different meaning. Heavenly Father is not alone, or as I see it divine. H F is a glorified human male who supposedly worked his way up to H F status. H F is not omnipotent, or omniscient according to me understanding of Mormon ideas. H F had another H F before him. And his children (male only) can themselves work their way up to H F status.

To me Mormonism is as close as it comes to being an Atheistic religion, or perhaps related to New Age religion. New Age people do not believe in a God who is outside themselves, or alternately they are God themselves.

But whatever they are, Mormons are not orthodox Christians. For one thing they believe in three separate divine beings, not one God in the Holy Trinity.

So what are your opinions on this? Mormon output is accepted and expected.
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As a Mormon, I was taught that calling God, God, was disrespectful to God. So Heavenly Father was the respectful term to use, and the term meant, God.
 
RebeccaJ said:
As a Mormon, I was taught that calling God, God, was disrespectful to God. So Heavenly Father was the respectful term to use, and the term meant, God.
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Pretty much, yes. when we address Him in prayer, the term of respect is “Heavenly Father.” or “Our Father in Heaven.” We do use the term “God” in conversations, however.

Here’s how we feel.

youtube.com/watch?v=XNe3Ea3eyNI
 
PaulDupre1 said:
Mormons teach that God will not allow us to know our Heavenly Mother is this mortal state because she is “too sacred” and perhaps people would somehow dishonor her, and Heavenly Father would never permit that.

This smacks of Islam, where women are so “sacred” that they must wear burkhas and cannot drive a car or go out of the house without a male relative to escort them. To me, this sacred-ness looks a lot like bondage.

Are women so fragile, and is a righteous man so thin-skinned that they cannot slough off the barbs of fools? Methinks ye underestimate us.

I see a woman on a pedestal - but she is chained to that pedestal with no way to escape. That is Islam and that is Mormonism. It is no wonder that LDS women suffer the US’s highest rate of female clinical depression, anti-depression meds and suicide.

Lord, rescue them.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
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Paul, I challenge that. According to every study I have seen, a couple of things hold true, specifically in the state of Utah where the highest population of Mormons is found.

First: Utah leads the nation as ‘happiest state,’

It also is in the top five ‘most depressed,’

It leads the nation as the state with the least alcohol and illegal drug use.

It is also one of the states that has the most anti-depressant prescriptions written.

The studies show this: those who are active and happy in their religion are the least likely to be depressed.

Those who are violating the laws and precepts of their religion are the most likely to be depressed (and the above two statements apply to all religions).

Since Utahns do not ‘self medicate’ by using drugs and alcohol, they are more likely to seek medical help and get anti-depressants.

There ARE no studies that I can find that come to the conclusions you just made a claim for, so…

How about providing it?

Or retract, whichever.

But go ahead; you made this claim. Care to support it?
 
RebeccaJ said:
On no, sappy Mormon videos! 😛

I have never heard in my entire life, my parents say the word God…nope.
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Well, perhaps your parents were more likely to talk to Him than about Him.

As to 'sappy Mormon videos…"

Sappy, you bet. I like ‘sappy.’ But there is nothing specifically “Mormon” about it. I think that any Christian could sing it and not be violating any of his or her beliefs.
 
dianaiad said:
Well, perhaps your parents were more likely to talk to Him than about Him.
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Perhaps more to do with my mom being a stickler for addressing people with their respective titles. Along the same lines of addressing someone by their first name…only done with friends.
As to 'sappy Mormon videos…"
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Sappy, you bet. I like ‘sappy.’ But there is nothing specifically “Mormon” about it. I think that any Christian could sing it and not be violating any of his or her beliefs.
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Could be, but I have a personal aversion to Janice Kapp Perry. 🤓
 
dianaiad said:
Paul, I challenge that. According to every study I have seen, a couple of things hold true, specifically in the state of Utah where the highest population of Mormons is found.

First: Utah leads the nation as ‘happiest state,’

It also is in the top five ‘most depressed,’

It leads the nation as the state with the least alcohol and illegal drug use.

It is also one of the states that has the most anti-depressant prescriptions written.

The studies show this: those who are active and happy in their religion are the least likely to be depressed.

Those who are violating the laws and precepts of their religion are the most likely to be depressed (and the above two statements apply to all religions).

Since Utahns do not ‘self medicate’ by using drugs and alcohol, they are more likely to seek medical help and get anti-depressants.

There ARE no studies that I can find that come to the conclusions you just made a claim for, so…

How about providing it?

Or retract, whichever.

But go ahead; you made this claim. Care to support it?
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Could be a lot of things. There is a new study going on at the University of Utah, to determine if air pollution is a factor. The air along the Wasatch Front, where most Utahns live, exceeds US Federal pollution standards frequently, and for long periods of time during the winter months.

I’m looking forward to their results, but it’s going to be a couple of years before their study is finished.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Could be a lot of things. There is a new study going on at the University of Utah, to determine if air pollution is a factor. The air along the Wasatch Front, where most Utahns live, exceeds US Federal pollution standards frequently, and for long periods of time during the winter months.

I’m looking forward to their results, but it’s going to be a couple of years before their study is finished.
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Well, given that my most recent visit to Cache Valley (where my daughters are) had me driving through Salt Lake City and the worst smog I have EVER dealt with (and I live just seventy miles from the LA Basin, for crying out loud!) you might have a point. 😉

But that isn’t what Paul claimed.
 
zaffiroborant said:
Talmage said the same thing about Traditional Christians.
You’re an atheist, your god isn’t a god he’s just an advanced man.
Nooo you’re an atheist, your god is immaterial, a nothing so you believe in nothing.🤷
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To be an atheist one must hold, as a fundamental belief, that there is no such thing as God. Clearly this is not what Mormons believe. As a Catholic I think that LDS theology is deeply flawed. I don’ think they understand him very well at all. But this does not translate into them rejecting out of hand even the existence of God, which defines atheism.
 
SteveVH said:
To be an atheist one must hold, as a fundamental belief, that there is no such thing as God. Clearly this is not what Mormons believe. As a Catholic I think that LDS theology is deeply flawed. I don’ think they understand him very well at all. But this does not translate into them rejecting out of hand even the existence of God, which defines atheism.
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Yep this applies to both accusations of atheism.
 
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