Heb. 10:5 and Ps. 39:7

  • Thread starter Thread starter anon91549587
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

anon91549587

Guest
“Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not: but a body thou hast fitted to me “

in hebrews 10:5 does not match with Psalm 39:7 (DR bible) or 40:7

“Sacrifice and oblation thou didst not desire; but thou hast pierced ears for me”

Why is this?
 
Last edited:
The root cause of the difficulty seems to be a significant difference between the Hebrew and Greek (Septuagint) texts of v. 7. This is how the Jerusalem Bible translates the Hebrew text:

You, who wanted no sacrifice or oblation, opened my ear, you asked no holocaust or sacrifice for sin; then I said, ‘Here I am! I am coming!’

adding in a footnote,

God sees to it that his servant knows his will, cf. Is 50:5. A Greek variant, ‘You have fashioned a body for me’, was interpreted messianically and applied to Christ, Heb 10:5f.
 
So was this added by the original LXX men or added in later revisions? Prolly the latter i presume?
 
There are several issues at play:
  1. Ps 40:6 in Hebrew uses a very idiosyncratic idiom: אָזְנַיִם לִכְרוֹת aznayim lichrot ‘to dig ears’. The general meaning is ‘to give the ability to hear and obey God’.
  2. Uncertainty about how Ps 40:6 is used by Paul: is his use of σῶμα soma (‘body’) instead of ὠτία otia (the Greek translation of aznayim ‘ears’) because this is what was in his edition of the LXX, or did he purposefully use soma in an original exposition of Ps 40:6?
  3. Scholarly analysis of the LXX manuscript tradition for 40:6 (39:7 in the LXX) has many uncertainties. All manuscripts (which all date after the 4th century AD) read soma, but it’s uncertain whether this is original to the pre-Christian text of the LXX, a later Christian addition to make the verse conform to Hebrew 10:5, or a scribal error (otia can easily be misread for soma due to the particular style of writing in ancient Greek manuscripts). The provenance of soma in the LXX is uncertain primarily because Ps 39 (and most other psalms) is a very literal translation of the underlying Hebrew, and so a divergence like soma and aznayim sticks out.
 
Bithynian said:
Uncertainty about how Ps 40:6 is used by Paul: is his use of σῶμα soma (‘body’) instead of ὠτία otia (the Greek translation of aznayim ‘ears’) because this is what was in his edition of the LXX, or did he purposefully use soma in an original exposition of Ps 40:6?
Click to expand...
Paul is solid as a rock.
 
The Hebraic Roots Bible (available as a PDF) uses the “body” version in Psalm 40.

ICXC NIKA
 
Most all modern translations of the Greek Septuagint and Latin Vulgate (the oldest Scriptural Source Documents)
  • are already acceptable .
Catholicism does not sit solely upon the Bible
which in the modern form (included the NT) came into existence around 400 AD
 
GEddie said:
The Hebraic Roots Bible (available as a PDF) uses the “body” version in Psalm 40.
Click to expand...
Here is an online edition, with the words “But a body You have prepared for me” in Ps.40:6.


If this translation really sticks closely to the Hebrew OT, and yet uses the “body” form of this verse, that would suggest that someone has found a Hebrew manuscript with this variant reading. Is that possible?
 
Last edited:
BartholomewB said:
If this translation really sticks closely to the Hebrew OT, and yet uses the “body” form of this verse, that would suggest that someone has found a Hebrew manuscript with this variant reading. Is that possible?
Click to expand...
No such manuscript I’m afraid. The only Hebrew text tradition that has preserved Ps 40:6 is the Masoretic Text, and the manuscripts uniformly read ‘ears’ rather than ‘body’.
 
Conclusion: As far as Psalm 40 goes, the Hebraic Roots Bible might more properly be titled the Hellenic Roots Bible. Would that be a fair comment?
 
BartholomewB said:
the Hellenic Roots Bible
Click to expand...
It’s a very idiosyncratic translation. I skimmed through the introduction and the translator (a single person) notes ‘I am neither a Hebrew or Aramaic scholar’ and, more pertinent to the topic at hand, that:
In Psalm 40:6 the Masoretic text has purposely changed the phrase “a BODY you have prepared for me”, as properly quoted again in Hebrews 10:5, and verified by the Septuagint and also the Dead Sea Scrolls to the phrase “you have opened up my ears.”
Click to expand...
Which is a bizarre explanation, to say the least. As I mentioned, Ps 40:6 isn’t even preserved amongst the DSS. Ps 40 is only found in one manuscript, 11QPsd, and only the first verse survives.
 
Sorry i am not up to speed is the Hebraic roots bible associated with the hate group ?
 
anon91549587 said:
Sorry i am not up to speed is the Hebraic roots bible associated with the hate group ?
Click to expand...
Definitely not associated with any hate group. It looks like it’s associated with an evangelical Messianic Jewish church in Israel.
 
Catholic Bibles in all languages and translations are allowable…
 
Thank you for all these detailed sleuth work . I do have a tanakh beside me by Israel 365. Reading it reverted me back to Catholicism.

Here it reads

You gave me to understand that you do not desire sacrifice and meal offering ; you do not ask for burnt offering and sin offering .
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top