Hebrew Catholic Association

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I think that’s what they are called. I called Mother Miriam on Immaculate Heart Radio about a week ago, the same station I catch Catholic Answers live. I am not Jewish, but many years ago I attended a Messianic Jewish church for a while. Several things about the service I found beautiful; singing in Hebrew, the beautiful ritual dancing, and wearing the talit cloth (prayer shawl.) I liked the Talit cloth because I believe that Yeshua wore one, and it was kind of a connection to him and the Jewish roots of Christianity.

Anyway, so Mother Miriam agreed that it is good for Christians to get in touch with the Jewish roots of Christianity, and recommended that group. She said that a lot of non-Jewish people are involved with the group for that reason.

Do any of you have any experience with this group? I doubt that they are around my county, but it sounds interesting, and possibly enriching. What are your thoughts on all of this?

For those who don’t know; Mother Miriam was an Orthodox Jew who became a nun after she converted to the Catholic church. (Her full story is fascinating. )

God bless.
 
I think it’s well and fine, so long as we understand that Orthodox Judaism grew out of Temple Judaism, and that it is a sister religion to Catholicism. The Judaism of today should never be projected into the past uncritically, and we should always carefully discern and distinguish. In fact, a good example of this sort of thing might be the Messianic expectation in modern, Rabbinic Judaism. Folks like Roy Schoeman are quite adamant that this expectation is in many ways a direct reaction to Christian missionaries. To state that an educated Jew living shortly before Christ would have the exact same understanding of the Messiah as a Jew living after the Rambam would be anachronistic.

Our roots are Temple Judaism, not Rabbinic Judaism. The fact that something is seen or experienced in Rabbinic Judaism does not mean it is rightly something we descended from.

Having said all of this, I love the Jewish people, and I think the Association of Hebrew Catholics is a wonderful thing. This free study series is absolutely amazing: hebrewcatholic.net/studies/mystery-of-israel-church/. Also, you should check out some of Brant Pitre’s work on “Jewish roots” in Christianity: store.catholicproductions.com/collections/brant-pitre.
 
Having lived most of my life on Long Island, NY I have a deep appreciation and gratitude for Jewish Culture. A true mark of an impressive people or culture is when there influence and contribution to civilization far exceeds the numbers of Jew. I would like to learn more on Mother Miriam’s conversion. Thank you.
 
The Hebrew Catholics should have their own rite. The Church needs to be diversified and I think this is a great chance.
 
Young_Ludovicus said:
The Hebrew Catholics should have their own rite. The Church needs to be diversified and I think this is a great chance.
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Very interesting idea!

Salvation is from the Jews is an excellent book written by a Hebrew Catholic. I believe the author is Roy Schoeman.
 
Young_Ludovicus said:
The Hebrew Catholics should have their own rite. The Church needs to be diversified and I think this is a great chance.
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The Association of Hebrew Catholics seem to agree with you insofar as a Hebrew Rite is concerned. Many Jewish converts will attest to the fact that it was very difficult to make the transition to Catholicism without feeling utterly isolated from their people. Folks like the AHC will argue that a Hebrew Rite would be one step to remedy this situation. Indeed, the whole purpose of the AHC is to “end the alienation of Catholics of Jewish origin and background” as Bishop Mengeling once stated.

To be frank, I’ve not seen any sort of discussion of this idea, and so I can’t conclude whether it would be a good or a bad idea. I know that some individuals are critical of things like “Christian Seders” and I’m not so sure whether their arguments could be extrapolated to also include a Hebrew Rite. Perhaps it would be a bit too much like trying to recreate Old Covenant worship with a Christian flair? I’m not sure, but I am certainly at the least open to the idea while being very careful and cautious.

By the way, here’s a letter from Cardinal Burke in which he gives a glowing appraisal of the Association of Hebrew Catholics: hebrewcatholic.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/abpburkeltr519068.gif.
 
It is a group that Catholic fascists would not approve of. I think it is good for Catholics to make connections with Jews. It can help stop anti-Semitism within the Church.
 
Is there a simple explanation of the differences between Temple Judaism and Rabbinic Judaism? Until reading this thread, all I knew about the organization of Judaism was: Orthodox, Conservative, Reformed.
 
anon67074017 said:
It is a group that Catholic fascists would not approve of. I think it is good for Catholics to make connections with Jews. It can help stop anti-Semitism within the Church.
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I am a convert of 8 years and have not witnessed anti-semitism within the church. :confused:
 
on_the_hill said:
Is there a simple explanation of the differences between Temple Judaism and Rabbinic Judaism? Until reading this thread, all I knew about the organization of Judaism was: Orthodox, Conservative, Reformed.
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Temple Judaism refers to the practices of Judaism while they had the Temple. It involved sacrifices, and other practices surrounding the Temple. After the destruction of the Temple circa 70 A.D., Judaism underwent many reforms. Some people call modern Judaism “Talmudic Judaism” because of its heavy reliance on the Talmud, a book of rabbinic commentaries about scriptures and Jewish beliefs and practices. Some people believe that modern Judaism is very different than Temple Judaism, and there certainly are some differences. However, there is still a diversity of belief, just as you had in the Temple period.

In the late Temple period the main divisions were the Pharisees, who believed in a resurrection of the dead; the Sadducees, who did not believe in a resurrection of the dead; and the Essenes, who were Messianic and were looking for the coming Messiah. The Essenes were also strict interpreters of the law, even more so than the Pharisees, and lived apart from the rest of the people. They are the source of the famous Dead Sea Scrolls.
 
on_the_hill said:
Is there a simple explanation of the differences between Temple Judaism and Rabbinic Judaism? Until reading this thread, all I knew about the organization of Judaism was: Orthodox, Conservative, Reformed.
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Those three forms of modern Judaism all are subcategories of Rabbinic Judaism. Basically, the differences between those three forms is how one is to interpret the binding value of Jewish tradition as recorded in places like the Talmud.

But Rabbinic Judaism is itself a reaction to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple around A.D. 70. Its theology and rituals were a result of the impossibility of sacrificial atonement for sin. We understand Rabbinic Judaism primarily from sources like the aforementioned Talmud, which claims to contain traditions going all the way back to Moses, and which was only written down in toto around the sixth century, if memory serves.

Temple or Biblical Judaism is the religion of the Hebrews as practiced before the Temple was destroyed, and it itself contained various sects, such as the famous Sadduccees and the Pharisees. The Pharisaical school is what eventually became Rabbinic Judaism.
 
Some great links and good conversation so far. Thank you.

A Hebrew rite would be interesting, except that it wouldn’t be likely to be open to Gentiles joining the rite. We could attend their services, just as we can attend Byzantine services even if we’re Latin Rite, but we couldn’t join a Hebrew Rite parish. I wish there was a way to have some of the things from the Jewish traditions in a Catholic parish which is open to everyone. Like I said, I really miss seeing the sacred dancing, singing in Hebrew, and wearing the Talit cloth. Praying in Hebrew and taking a class in Hebrew was awesome too. I also really liked having a traditional Torah scroll in the church, but it shouldn’t replace our respect for the Gospels.

FWIW, my tagline at the bottom of my posts is the Hebrew for the Aaronic Blessing (May the Lord bless you and keep you, May the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you, May the Lord lift up His countenance/face upon you and give you peace.)

Baruch haba b’shem Adonai, Yeshua ha Moshiach. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, Jesus the Messiah.
 
FonsBonitatis said:
But Rabbinic Judaism is itself a reaction to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple around A.D. 70.
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By the way, here is how Roy Schoeman describes the above:
The first [major shift in Judaism] was the one necessitated by the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The entire sacramental system of Judaism as laid out in the Old Testament was dependent on animal sacrifices that required the existence of the Temple in Jerusalem. When the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70 such sacrifices were no longer possible, and so the Jews were left with no way to purify themselves or atone for sins. Thus the entire system “broke down”. In response to this crisis, the leading Rabbis convened in nearby Jamnia and redefined the sacramental system of Judaism, replacing the role of animal sacrifice with good works, prayer, fasting, almsgiving, etc. This revision of Judaism is known as “Rabbinic Judaism” as opposed to the former “Temple Judaism”, and serves as the foundation for the Judaism that still exists today.
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He then goes on to list two other major shifts away from Temple Judaism and towards the theology of 21st century Judaism: the continuous potential in Europe of Jewish conversion to Christianity coupled with the so-called Englightenment, and also the effects of the Holocaust on Jewish theology.

See the link for more information.
 
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