Hebrews 12:2 - a question for the Greek scholars

[NHInsider]

Good morning-

Just out of curiosity, I wonder what the literal meaning of the first description of Jesus is in this verse? I’m looking at multiple translations and seeing “leader,” “pioneer,” “founder” - and “author.”

“author” and “leader” seem to be the most common, and as they seem (in English) to be not contradictory but rather different, I’m wondering what shades of meaning the Greek might have had in the time of the original.

Incidentally, I’m not trying to re-ignite a “which translation is purer” argument here. I do know what the D-R says, and I’m not disputing it. Just trying to “study to show myself approved.”

 

[ckempston]

Good morning-

Just out of curiosity, I wonder what the literal meaning of the first description of Jesus is in this verse? I’m looking at multiple translations and seeing “leader,” “pioneer,” “founder” - and “author.”

“author” and “leader” seem to be the most common, and as they seem (in English) to be not contradictory but rather different, I’m wondering what shades of meaning the Greek might have had in the time of the original.

Incidentally, I’m not trying to re-ignite a “which translation is purer” argument here. I do know what the D-R says, and I’m not disputing it. Just trying to “study to show myself approved.”

Greek is not hard to learn. If you’re interested in learning it, there are plenty of web resources for doing so (for free). For your particular question, go here:

studylight.org/isb

and plug in the verse in question. You can look at the in-line Greek text from three different “source” texts, as well as search for different occurances of the same word in the Lexicon (link on the left) throughout the New Testament to see where else, and how, it was used. The numbers in the Greek text indicate tense, mood, and voice and will tell you what these are if you click on them. This is not a Catholic site, so there may be some commentary you will not agree with, but the Lexicon and Interlinear text are good resources.

 

[NHInsider]

This is probably going to be a very cool tool, once I figure out how to use it. Thanks for the tip!

I actually did take a couple of semesters of Greek, many years ago, but wouldn’t presume to be able to read even modern Greek, much less Biblical, with any reasonable comprehension. . .

 

[ckempston]

This is probably going to be a very cool tool, once I figure out how to use it. Thanks for the tip!

I actually did take a couple of semesters of Greek, many years ago, but wouldn’t presume to be able to read even modern Greek, much less Biblical, with any reasonable comprehension. . .

Good luck. There is good information and lessons at both of these sites:

ntgreek.net
ibiblio.org/koine/

 

[MarcoPolo]

Strong’s dictionary identifies the word as: ἀρχηγός

1. the chief leader, prince
   1a) of Christ
2. one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an
   example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer
3. the author

 

[John7]

also from Friberg,

**αρχηγον **noun accusative masculine singular common from αρχηγος

[Fri] αρχηγος, ou, o`
(1) strictly one who goes first on the path; hence leader, prince, pioneer (HE 2.10);
(2) as one who causes something to begin originator, founder, initiator (HE 12.2)

 

[Manfred]

Good morning-

Just out of curiosity, I wonder what the literal meaning of the first description of Jesus is in this verse? I’m looking at multiple translations and seeing “leader,” “pioneer,” “founder” - and “author.”

“author” and “leader” seem to be the most common, and as they seem (in English) to be not contradictory but rather different, I’m wondering what shades of meaning the Greek might have had in the time of the original.

Incidentally, I’m not trying to re-ignite a “which translation is purer” argument here. I do know what the D-R says, and I’m not disputing it. Just trying to “study to show myself approved.”

As much as I like the RSV-CE, here is yet another instance where the translation is wanting, for I found its use of the word “pioneer” in Hebrews 2:10 and 12:2 to be inappropriate, as it conjures up images of folks in covered wagons traveling westward in the USA during the late 19th century. I think “author” is more dignified and suitable here to refer to Christ.

 

[NHInsider]

As much as I like the RSV-CE, here is yet another instance where the translation is wanting, for I found its use of the word “pioneer” in Hebrews 2:10 and 12:2 to be inappropriate, as it conjures up images of folks in covered wagons traveling westward in the USA during the late 19th century. I think “author” is more dignified and suitable here to refer to Christ.

I suspect that connotation for “pioneer” is a US problem which doesn’t distract English-speakers in other countries.

I don’t have a problem with either translation, and I understand completely that one of the problems with translations is the impossibility of catching all the shades of meaning in a word with a single word in the new language, which appears to be the situation here - the word carries both the sense of “one who goes before” (“pioneer/leader”) and “one who begins/initiates” (“author/founder”)

Thanks all!

 

[Manfred]

I suspect that connotation for “pioneer” is a US problem which doesn’t distract English-speakers in other countries.

I don’t have a problem with either translation, and I understand completely that one of the problems with translations is the impossibility of catching all the shades of meaning in a word with a single word in the new language, which appears to be the situation here - the word carries both the sense of “one who goes before” (“pioneer/leader”) and “one who begins/initiates” (“author/founder”)

Thanks all!

True, but most of the work done on the RSV when it was first translated back in the 1940s and 1950s was done in the USA, and, if I were on the team, would’ve nixed “pioneer” for sure.

I prefer any of the other options you suggest, viz, “leader”, “author”, “founder”, with “author” being the best, in my not-so-humble opinion.

 

[NHInsider]

Except that “pioneer” has the connotation of “blazing the trail/going where no one has gone before” while a “leader” could be simply leading us along an established path.

Again, the challenge is always to try and capture all the connotations of the original.

 

[Manfred]

Except that “pioneer” has the connotation of “blazing the trail/going where no one has gone before” while a “leader” could be simply leading us along an established path.

Again, the challenge is always to try and capture all the connotations of the original.

“There you go again!” with that image of a pioneer’s blazing a trail.

 

[patrick457]

“There you go again!” with that image of a pioneer’s blazing a trail.

In turn, your statement reminded me of that song from The Road to El Dorado…(“On the trail we blaze…”)

I’m not a scholar, but as for the Greek word used in Hebrews 12:2, it is archēgos (from archē “beginning”, “the extremity of something” and agō “to lead”, “to bring”), basically someone that takes the lead and thus affords an example - the archēgos begins something that others may follow into it. It could also mean an originator or a source of origin.

The term was used of heroes human or divine (the Spartan general Pausanias self-styled himself as such), leaders (the Manicheans called the successors of Mani and their spiritual leaders archēgoi, Josephus dubbed Moses as the archēgos of the Jewish people, while Cassius Dio called King Artabanus IV the archēgos of the Parthians) or founders and defenders, say of localities or dynasties (like Aeneas for Rome, Athena for Athens, Apollo for the Seleucid dynasty, or Heracles/Hercules for the Argead dynasty).

Interestingly, St. Peter also calls Jesus the archēgos in Acts 3:15 and 5:31 (“The archēgos of life” and “God exalted him to His right hand as archēgos and Savior”) - though this is quite obscured by the fact that the instances of archēgos there are rendered traditionally as “prince”.

The Latin Vulgate render archēgos as auctor, which most early English translations and some modern-day ones follow by using the Anglicized word “author” in its original sense, “the originator/creator/source” of something.

 

[Manfred]

Interestingly, St. Peter also calls Jesus the archēgos in Acts 3:15 and 5:31 (“The archēgos of life” and “God exalted him to His right hand as archēgos and Savior”) - though this is quite obscured by the fact that the instances of archēgos there are rendered traditionally as “prince”.

The Latin Vulgate render archēgos as auctor, which most early English translations and some modern-day ones follow by using the Anglicized word “author” in its original sense, “the originator/creator/source” of something.

In Acts 3:15, both the RSV and the D-R render the word as “Author”.

In Acts 5:31, the RSV uses “Leader” and the D-R “Prince”.

And while the RSV uses “pioneer” in both Hebrews 2:10 and 12:2, the D-R went with “author” in both places.

There’s just something about that word “pioneer” that doesn’t ring well…

 

[patrick457]

In Acts 3:15, both the RSV and the D-R render the word as “Author”.

In Acts 5:31, the RSV uses “Leader” and the D-R “Prince”.

And while the RSV uses “pioneer” in both Hebrews 2:10 and 12:2, the D-R went with “author” in both places.

There’s just something about that word “pioneer” that doesn’t ring well…

Ah, how language changes over time…it is very much like how the words “gay” or “queer” was originally mere synonyms for “happy” or “carefree” and “odd” and “strange” respectively before recent culture took it and gave it new meanings.

If I may ask, though, is the connotation with “pioneer” with the American pioneers a country (American)-specific thing or do other people from other countries share the connotation?