Hebrews 8:13 Old Covenant abolished?

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Hebrews 8:13 (New International Version)
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Talking to people who say that everything that even Christ was saying before the establishment of the new covenant is wipe-away! :eek:

So any point I make in the gospels is nullified because Jesus was still acting in the Old covenant (like pointing to the authority of the priests because they sit on the seat of authority and combining that with the authority of the Apostles (Matt 23)).
 
Follow first the Word of God and then incorporating how His words had to worked out by humans.

As a small example, because St. Peter received two dreams from Jesus - to transform the laws concerning clean and unclean food and the direction to baptize pagans - the Old Covenant was fulfilled and had to be transformed. “New Wine can not be stored in Old Wine skins.”

Orthodox Jews today continue to clean their homes of any yeast in celebration of Passover.

The Torah has several commandments regarding chametz:

The positive commandment to remove all chametz from one’s home (Exodus 12:15).[1]

Not to possess chametz in one’s domain during Passover. (Exodus 12:19, Deuteronomy 16:4).[2]

Not to eat chametz, or mixtures containing chametz, during Passover (Exodus 13:3, Exodus 12:20, Deuteronomy 16:3).[3]

preciousholidays.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/speed-cleaning-for-passover/

"Chametz, also spelled Chometz or Ḥametz, (Hebrew: khaméts חָמֵץ / חמץ‎), refers to leavened products that are forbidden to be consumed on the Jewish holiday of Passover. According to Jewish law, Jews may not own, eat or benefit from chametz during Passover. This law appears several times in the Torah and the punishment for eating chametz on Passover is kareth (“spiritual excision”), one of the most severe levels of punishment in Judaism.

Chametz is a product that is (a) made from one of five types of grains, and (b) has been combined with water and left to stand raw for longer than eighteen minutes."
 
How detailed and involved is the prep for Passover & cleaning yeast out of home?

🙂

preciousholidays.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/speed-cleaning-for-passover/

"Enlist your family’s help. Children enjoy getting rid of chametz. To symbolize their freedom, let them get silly, wear mismatched clothes and listen to their music while they clean.

Start with the porch and garage. Is food stored out there? What about animal food? Don’t hyper-clean, just remove yeast. Render it off limits to yeast with a sticky note.

Skip rooms that never have food in them. You don’t eat in the bathroom, do you? What about the linen closet? Bedrooms? If there’s no food, it’s done. Slap on a sticky note, and move on.

Knock out the little jobs. Clean your office space, hallways, and purse. When finished with each area, render it off limits.

Living room / family room Remove dishes and food wrappers. Wipe surfaces that have been used for food with a damp cloth. Pull the cushions off the furniture and vacuum. Empty wastebasket, wipe, and line with plastic bag. Vacuum or sweep the floor. Move fast. Remember, we’re not spring cleaning. We’re removing chametz.

Bedrooms Take out food, wipe surfaces used for food, and vacuum or sweep. If a pet lives here, check pet food ingredients and remove, if necessary. Clean pet habitat, if the food contains yeast. If possible, let children claim responsibility for their own rooms. If the child is too little, let him help you. Empty the wastebasket, wipe, and line with plastic bag.

Dining room Wipe table and chairs. Pull the leaf out of the table, and remove crumbs. You may need to use an old toothbrush sprayed with furniture polish on the inside of the leaf. Cover the table with a plastic tablecloth. Vacuum or sweep.

Kitchen If you have young children, this room is best done after bedtime, or when someone is designated to watch them. It’s not a safe zone for little ones while you’re cleaning.

Turn your oven on as hot as it will go, or to the self-cleaning setting, to burn off crumbs. Unplug the refrigerator, and open the freezer door. Take items out of the freezer and put into the refrigerator (keep door closed). If your freezer is not frost-free, do the cabinets while the ice is melting. Put a pan of boiling water on a folded towel inside the freezer to remove built-up ice. Don’t use a hair dryer or anything electric, to avoid shock. Take shelves out of the freezer, and clean. Take food, shelves, and drawers out of the refrigerator. Clean refrigerator, and put it back together. Work quickly, so your food doesn’t spoil. Read labels, and replace non-yeast food.

Save out ten olive-sized pieces of bread, wrapped in plastic, for the chametz search. Plug the refrigerator back in. Turn off the oven. Check the top of the fridge, remove yeast items, and wipe. Wipe out children’s lunchboxes.

Take everything out of the cabinets and pantry. Read labels. Put items with leavening into a box to give away. Wipe insides of cabinets. Line shelves with aluminum foil, if you like. Replace non-yeast foods.

Wipe down top of stove. Then turn the burners on high for three minutes, to burn off yeast. Clear counter tops and wipe with damp cloth. Shake out toaster, breadmaker or other appliances that may have crumbs. Put into plastic bags, seal, and put away until after Passover. Put away your wooden cutting board, bowls and utensils (save out a wooden spoon for chametz search). Clean dishes that have yeast on them.

If you are able, after the oven cools, pull out large appliances, and clean floor beneath and behind. If not, just do your best around them. Keep in mind the spirit of the law. Don’t hurt yourself getting at the crumbs under the refrigerator.

Sweep and mop kitchen floor, and take out the trash. Give yeasty food items to a non-observing friend. Toss cleaning cloths into the washer.

Car - On your way to pick up Passover items, stop at a gas station. Clean food wrappers out of your car and vacuum.

Search for Chametz: You’ll need wrapped bread crumbs, a candle, feather, paper bag and wooden spoon. Just before sunset, the day before Passover, place the crumbs in various spots around your house. Say the following blessing:

“Blessed are You, Adonai our God, King of the Universe, who sanctifies us with your commandments, and commanded us concerning the removal of chametz.”

Then search the home with the candle. Scoop the bread pieces on to the spoon with the feather, carry it all out in the paper bag, and burn.

Nullification of the Chametz When burning the last of the chametz, say the following:

“All leaven and anything leavened that is in my possession, which I have neither seen nor removed, and about which I am unaware, shall be considered nullified and ownerless as the dust of the earth.”

You did it! Enjoy your Passover!"
 
thanks for the response.

Unfortunately I don’t get the connection to the OP?!
 
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Judaism was either the first - or one of first three - organised faiths to be monotheistic.

Christianity is trinitarian monotheism - belief in one God who is three distinct persons; God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Chrisitianity is the fulfillment of Judaism.

To turn Judaism into Christianity - monotheism into trinitarian monotheism - the Son of Man needed to create a New Covenant which would of course abolish the Old.

“You can not put New wine into Old wine skins.”
 
Here’s something of interest.

I don’t agree with King Hezekia being the first monotheist - we know from Scripture that Abraham preceeded King Hezekia. Abraham believed (not as his fellow pagans did) in one God. He was the founder of Judaism - a monotheist religion - while all other peoples were polytheistic - believers in multiple different gods.

Found this on: wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_first_monotheistic_religion

"There are at least three contenders as the first monotheistic culture of the world.

Judaism

Some believe Judaism to be the first monotheistic religion. However, scholars now believe that Judaism, as a monotheistic religion, only became established in the middle of the first millennium BCE.

King Hezekia (729-686 BCE) of Judah made the first real attempt, in historic times, to impose a monotheistic religion, but his son soon allowed Judah to revert to polytheism.

King Josiah ( c. 640-609 BCE) re-instituted religious reform and, in his reign, a monotheistic religion seems to have finally become dominant among the Jews. So, the earliest real evidence of a monotheistic religion in Israel and Judah is during the reign of King Hezekiah.

Egypt

Ancient Egyptians worship was a form of syncretistic polytheism, except briefly during the reign of **Pharaoh Akhenaten , who became an uncompromising monotheist **in the 14th century BCE. The economic distress that occurred at the end of his reign was seen as a warning from the gods and his successor restored the ancient beliefs.

Zoroastrianism

The Zoroastrian prophet, Zarathushtra (or Zoroaster) appears to have lived among the proto-Indo-Iranian people of southern Russia, somewhere around 1700 BCE.

Summary

On the evidence, Zoroastrianism was the first monotheistic religion in the world. The second was the brief Egyptian monotheistic religion that only lasted during the reign of Akhenaten. The third was in the Hebrew kingdom of Judah, during the reign of Hezekiah, but successfully re-instituted during the reign of Josiah."

*** That’s intriguing because of the interaction of the Israelites with Egypt (yearly festival of Passover) and the visit of the Magi to the baby Jesus (it’s been suggested that they were Zorastrian priests from Babylon.)
 
=ChristianSurfer;7258563]Talking to people who say that everything that even Christ was saying before the establishment of the new covenant is wipe-away! :eek:
So any point I make in the gospels is nullified because Jesus was still acting in the Old covenant (like pointing to the authority of the priests because they sit on the seat of authority and combining that with the authority of the Apostles (Matt 23)).
***That position is frankly silly:

Did not Christ say "I came not to abolish the Law but TO FULFILL IT! [Mt. 5:17]

TRUTH never is outdated, never replaced.

The folks to whom you are speaking have no intention of Knowing, Loving and serving God.They apply there own incorrect understanding, to accomidate there own will at the expense of denying God’s.

In a real sense the Old Covenant is set asside at the birth of Christ; as the Incarnation brings to light a NEW, Fuller and Complete Understanding of God. No longer simply “Yahweh” but now Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!***
2 John 8-9 Anyone who is so “progressive” as not to remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God; whoever remains in the teaching has the Father and the Son
 
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Judaism was either the first - or one of first three - organised faiths to be monotheistic.

Christianity is trinitarian monotheism - belief in one God who is three distinct persons; God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Chrisitianity is the fulfillment of Judaism.

To turn Judaism into Christianity - monotheism into trinitarian monotheism - the Son of Man needed to create a New Covenant which would of course abolish the Old.

“You can not put New wine into Old wine skins.”
Thank you I get it now but,
Okay so what about the traditions that have carrying over from the old like priestly vestments, the reference to purgatory as in 2 Macc 12:44-46, I get the abolishment of strict Sabbath tradition, but what about when such arguments come up like “can we use instruments in church” and the only source is in the OT even though we don’t follow the law of Moses can we still use the examples. What I see people doing is totally getting rid of anything that has to do with Judaism and the only need for the Old Testament is just to see the fulfillment of Jesus? Does this mean OT references are also abolished?!
 
St. Peter, St. Paul and the Apostles kept the structure of Judaism but they saw it transformed just as Jesus was transformed by Resurrection.

Jesus simultaneously instituted the Eucharist, the New Covenant, His Church, His Priesthood and the priesthood for His Church - all done during the feast of Passover - a celebration from death and slavery into new life.

Jesus’ sacrifice for sin for all humanity and His ability to forgive sin was prefigured in the Old Testament on the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur.

Eucharist was prefigured in manna and in the showbread at the Temple.

Baptism was instituted with John - prefigured in the Old Testament waters of death and salvation.

The Apostles received the power of the Holy Spirit and Jesus’ gave them the authority to forgive sin in acts of reconciliation with Christians - these acts were also prefigured annually in the Old Testament at Yom Kippur.
 
Hebrews 8:13 (New International Version)

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Quote:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

“Law or the Prophets” is not the same as “old covenant”.

“everything is accomplished.” refers to “it is finished”, Christ’s last words on the cross signifying the moment of fulfillment.

Lev. 19:22 – the priests of the old covenant would make atonement for sins with the guilt offering of an animal which had to be consumed. Jesus, the High Priest of the New Covenant, has atoned for our sins by His one sacrifice, and He also must be consumed.
**

Exodus 24:9-11 - the Mosaic covenant was consummated with a meal in the presence of God. The New and eternal Covenant is consummated with the Eucharistic meal - the body and blood of Jesus Christ under the appearance of bread and wine.

Luke 23:4,14; John 18:38; 19:4,6 - under the Old Covenant, the lambs were examined on Nisan 14 (Fast of the First Born) to ensure that they had no blemish. The Gospel writers also emphasize that Jesus the Lamb was examined on Nisan 14 and no fault was found in him. He is the true Passover Lamb which must be eaten

Rev. 3:20 - as Priest and Paschal Lamb, our Lord shares the Eucharistic meal with us to seal His New Covenant. Through the covenant of his body and blood, we are restored to the Father and become partakers of the divine nature.

Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17 - these verses show that Jesus restores the father-son priesthood after Melchizedek. Jesus is the new priest and King of Jerusalem and feeds the new children of Abraham with His body and blood. This means that His eternal sacrifice is offered in the same manner as the bread and wine offered by Melchizedek in Gen. 14:18. But the bread and wine that Jesus offers is different, just as the Passover Lamb of the New Covenant is different. The bread and wine become His body and blood by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.

Heb. 8:6; 9:15; cf. Heb. 12:22-24; 13:20-21 - the covenant Jesus mediates (present tense) is better than the Old covenant. The covenant He mediates is the covenant of His body and blood which He offers in the Eucharist. See Matt. 26:26-28; Mark. 14:22,24; Luke 22;19-20; 1 Cor. 11:24-25 - which is the only time Jesus uses the word “covenant” (which is the offering of His body and blood).

Heb. 9:12 – Jesus enters into heaven, the Holy Place, taking His own blood. How can this be? He wasn’t bleeding after the resurrection. This is because He enters into the heavenly sanctuary to mediate the covenant of His body and blood by eternally offering it to the Father. This offering is made present to us in the same manner as Melchizedek’s offering, under the appearance of bread and wine.

Heb. 13:20-21 - Jesus died once, but His blood of the eternal covenant is eternally offered to equip us (present tense) with everything good that we may do God’s will.

*Heb. 13:8 - this is because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. While His suffering was temporal (because bodily pain is temporal), Jesus and His sacrifice are eternal (because redemption, salvation, and the mediation of the New covenant are eternal). *

scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html
 
Talking to people who say that everything that even Christ was saying before the establishment of the new covenant is wipe-away! :eek:

So any point I make in the gospels is nullified because Jesus was still acting in the Old covenant (like pointing to the authority of the priests because they sit on the seat of authority and combining that with the authority of the Apostles (Matt 23)).
My initial reaction to this makes me think of Dispensationalism. Darby and Scofield are the big promoters of this. This is a novelty and didn’t exist until the 19th century. Of course, they started the belief in the Rapture.

Also, your interpretation shouldn’t be rooted in 2 verses. Not only do you have to have the proper context, but you must take all the verses of scripture into account. If you do, I think you will see that Jesus kept to the authority in the O.T. for many reasons and, by His coming, prepared for the authority to be passed into the N.T. Church. Obviously, you can’t say that what God said (Jesus) doesn’t mean anything.
 
I was reading through this thread, and wanted be sure that when you see the word “law” in scripture, that you are aware that the Hebrew word used in almost every case is “torah”, which means “to teach”, or “teaching”. “Law” is an inaccurate translation of the word.

Just thought I’d try and make that clear.
 
My initial reaction to this makes me think of Dispensationalism. Darby and Scofield are the big promoters of this. This is a novelty and didn’t exist until the 19th century. Of course, they started the belief in the Rapture.

Also, your interpretation shouldn’t be rooted in 2 verses. Not only do you have to have the proper context, but you must take all the verses of scripture into account. If you do, I think you will see that Jesus kept to the authority in the O.T. for many reasons and, by His coming, prepared for the authority to be passed into the N.T. Church. Obviously, you can’t say that what God said (Jesus) doesn’t mean anything.
I had to look up Dispensationalism but yeah it is!
 
Hebrews 8:13 (New International Version)

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Quote:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

“Law or the Prophets” is not the same as “old covenant”.

scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html
Okay so this clears it up thanks! So the ceremonial observances of the old covenant had been abolished and its legal demands? (using Hebrews 8:13 with Colossians 2:14-17 )
 
So the ceremonial observances of the old covenant had been abolished and its legal demands? (using Hebrews 8:13 with Colossians 2:14-17 )
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day–
17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
 
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