Heckler at Mass after weird lay preaching

[horselvr]

Hmmm. At morning Mass sometimes after the gospel and during the homily our Priest will ask a few questions concerning the gospel that we just heard and to be honest, I think it is a wake up call especially when I couldn’t come up with any of the answers. Seems I heard the gospel but wasn’t really listeming. I don’t mind this question and answer bit because I think that doing this is very educational.

Now, if he ever turned over the homily to a layperson I don’t think that would go over very well at all.

OP. I have never witnessed what you have at Mass.

 

[Bluegoat]

In the Anglican Church we are allowed lay preachers under some conditions, so I have seen it. Never a heckler though. My guess is the poor guy just snapped. Too bad for the litugist/music guy - maybe it would be worthwhile to tell him you think he does a good job?

I don’t know that I would blame the lay preacher - I really can’t believe the priest didn’t vet it first. She probably thought people would really get involved.

 

[Dorothy]

Doesn’t the bishop need to hear about that? It seems that he would be the only one who could put a stop to it, but probably doesn’t know about it. It is definitely an abuse.

 

[ciero]

Did you attend all the Divine Liturgies celebrated in the States? Just because you have not seen one that does not mean that it does not happen. I have not seen a lot in my life but I am quite sure that they still happen. I have seen it done at Byzantine and Maronite Liturgies.

Just because you have seen this dosent make it the norm or even common.

 

[ODGarza]

Having a lay person preach during Mass is an incredible liturgical abuse. In addition to the quote from the GIRM, let me add this from Redemptionis Sacramentum:
[64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself,[142] “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.[143] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.[144]

[65.] It should be borne in mind that any previous norm that may have admitted non-ordained faithful to give the homily during the eucharistic celebration is to be considered abrogated by the norm of canon 767 §1.[145] This practice is reprobated, so that it cannot be permitted to attain the force of custom.

[66.] The prohibition of the admission of laypersons to preach within the Mass applies also to seminarians, students of theological disciplines, and those who have assumed the function of those known as “pastoral assistants”; nor is there to be any exception for any other kind of layperson, or group, or community, or association.[146]
Layperson here includes religious sisters, brothers, CCHD representatives, and any other person who has not received the sacrament of Holy Orders.

Note (however), that a lay person is allowed to preach. But not during the Mass.

To OP: this really should be taken up with the Priest and if it recurs write a letter to the Bishop with specifics.

 

[Elizabeth502]

To OP: this really should be taken up with the Priest and if it recurs write a letter to the Bishop with specifics.

It recurs 4-6 times/year, and has for at least 3 years.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Doesn’t the bishop need to hear about that? It seems that he would be the only one who could put a stop to it, but probably doesn’t know about it. It is definitely an abuse.

Yes I think the bishop does need to hear about it.

 

[Elizabeth502]

In the Anglican Church we are allowed lay preachers under some conditions, so I have seen it. Never a heckler though. My guess is the poor guy just snapped. Too bad for the litugist/music guy - maybe it would be worthwhile to tell him you think he does a good job?

I did.

I don’t know that I would blame the lay preacher - I really can’t believe the priest didn’t vet it first.

Just to be clear, for as long as this has been going on, it would appear zero oversight has happened, by any of the 4 staff priests who have approved it. The reason I say that is that both the content and the style have been absolutely horrendous. (This must be at least the 12th lay preacher I have personally heard. Only one lay preacher has been used more than once – 3 times for her. But most of them are new experiments. And no, the thrice-used one was not better than the others.) Any priest who had heard any of the “homilies” rehearsed beforehand, would hopefully not have allowed the “preacher” to embarrass himself or herself with such superficiality of content (or in two cases such unbearable intellectual pretentiousness), let alone in the static delivery. All of the priests, on their worst day, are better than the experiments. Surely they would immediately intuit that if they had vetted the talks beforehand.

She probably thought people would really get involved.

I think someone else may have addressed this: I actually thought that she just felt ambivalent about “preaching,” or got cold feet, because nothing in her affect projected enjoyment. She looked and acted incredibly pained to do this, had little to say, and looked glad to have it done with!

I wonder how these preachers are chosen, because I have never seen an announcement in the bulletin. Do random people just approach the various priests and announce they want to be “included”? Alternatively, have the priests privately contacted people they think would/should be excellent speakers? Even if so, the priests themselves should know better than this! They are not freshly out of seminary. They know that preaching is not reading a boring speech. They know that some creativity and dynamism is involved. They probably remember the difficulty of their own first homilies. Why would they even allow this, let alone wish it on the congregation? It’s puzzling!

Bluegoat, the visual is gorgeous.

 

[ODGarza]

Yes I think the bishop does need to hear about it.

Be as specific as you can stating dates and mass times, Priest and person(s) who gave the ‘homily’. If it is happen as often as 4-6 X a year it’s obviously something the priest is supporting.

 

[buffalo]

It is forbidden. Only Priests or Deacons can give the homily. Report it to your Bishop.

 

[Cristiano]

Just because you have seen this dosent make it the norm or even common.

I did say at it happens, I never said that it is common across all the Churches. It is you that started a personal attack saying that I was dreaming of it.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Please keep the discussion civil without personal comments. Thank you, everyone.

 

[Edward_H]

Pray and then meet with the Bishop. Truth and Charity.

 

[Bluegoat]

Re: writing the Bishop.

Having been in the army, my approach to problems is that they should always be handled at the lowest level. And as a Christian, courtesy and kindness and directness are important. I think talking to the priest would be a good idea before going to the Bishop. Bishops are busy, and who knows, maybe he knows what is going on. Talking to the priest may just clear everything up lickety-split.

 

[Edward_H]

I am in the Marines and normally I make the same sort of 1-1, lowest level, fraternal correction type of recommendation. Push down, subsidiarity, etc.

But notice the second sentence in the original post: . " it happens 4-6 times/year."

Implying multi year.

Nuts to that, it’s the pastor…and worse, he apparently has set up a long running pattern among parishioners.

This is a substantial defect in the pastors use of the Homily, and it’s time to “pop the flare” to the Bishop.

There’s no reasonable doubt. Wasn’t a mistake…wasn’t a lapse. It’s part his program.

The Bishop deserves to know this.

“Oh let’s hope he’ll change” has gotten us in a heap of a mess on other matters, no?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Edward. (And to the other posters, too.)

I agree with your assessment, given how entrenched this practice is at this parish.

 

[Brywan]

Incredible! I would have gotten up and walked out

Why would you walk out on Jesus Christ?

 

[Farsight001]

That happened when I was in college once. Some nuns decided that they were going to give the sermon, which actually involved interpretive dance by said nuns. The priests were standing outside church afterward stopping everyone and telling them that mass was invalid and they’d have to go again later.

 

[Like]

That happened when I was in college once. Some nuns decided that they were going to give the sermon, which actually involved interpretive dance by said nuns. The priests were standing outside church afterward stopping everyone and telling them that mass was invalid and they’d have to go again later.

What? Why did the priest allow it is the 1st place?

 

[Elizabeth502]

That happened when I was in college once. Some nuns decided that they were going to give the sermon, which actually involved interpretive dance by said nuns. The priests were standing outside church afterward stopping everyone and telling them that mass was invalid and they’d have to go again later.