Hedonism is the only logical world view

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someperson555

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The purpose/ of life is to be happy. I’ve known this all my life. And ever since I’ve left religion a few years ago, I’ve been starting to see reality more clearly. Mainly because I’m not afraid to contemplate anymore. So I’ve known this all my life, and I can’t stand it when pretentious people try to deny it. It is one of the few things we can know without a shadow of a doubt. The greatest good is pleasure. Of course, it’s important to note that happiness is objective. There is a heirarchy of pleasure. So society is equally wrong when it says platitudes like “oh just do what makes you happy”. As if happiness was relative or subjective. It’s not. These kind of sentiments are behind the current body positivity movement. Sayings like " oh it only matters if you FEEL beautiful ". Or " beauty us in the eye of the beholder ". But I digress, I merely used those as an analogy. Not all pleasures are equal. This is why most people cannot find true and lasting fulfillment. Happiness is objective, and species wide. A good place to start is the heirarchy of needs.
Anyone who tries to deny this is a hypocrite and illogical. Heck even in a religious world view this axiom stands. If I were to go up to the most ascetic monk, and ask him why he is torturing himself. He would reply " for theosis/ salvation of course ". But if theosis or salvation would feel like repeatedly being stung by tarantula Hawks, then you wouldn’t desire it. So regardless of your world view, the only reason we do anything is for pleasure. And self interest. I don’t know why so many people are afraid to admit this. We need to stop reciting empty platitudes and truly start searching for truth.
 
someperson555 said:
The purpose/ of life is to be happy. I’ve known this all my life. And ever since I’ve left religion a few years ago, I’ve been starting to see reality more clearly. Mainly because I’m not afraid to contemplate anymore. So I’ve known this all my life, and I can’t stand it when pretentious people try to deny it. It is one of the few things we can know without a shadow of a doubt. The greatest good is pleasure. Of course, it’s important to note that happiness is objective. There is a heirarchy of pleasure. So society is equally wrong when it says platitudes like “oh just do what makes you happy”. As if happiness was relative or subjective. It’s not. These kind of sentiments are behind the current body positivity movement. Sayings like " oh it only matters if you FEEL beautiful ". Or " beauty us in the eye of the beholder ". But I digress, I merely used those as an analogy. Not all pleasures are equal. This is why most people cannot find true and lasting fulfillment. Happiness is objective, and species wide. A good place to start is the heirarchy of needs.
Anyone who tries to deny this is a hypocrite and illogical. Heck even in a religious world view this axiom stands. If I were to go up to the most ascetic monk, and ask him why he is torturing himself. He would reply " for theosis/ salvation of course ". But if theosis or salvation would feel like repeatedly being stung by tarantula Hawks, then you wouldn’t desire it. So regardless of your world view, the only reason we do anything is for pleasure. And self interest. I don’t know why so many people are afraid to admit this. We need to stop reciting empty platitudes and truly start searching for truth.
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Happiness and pleasure are not equivalent. Goodness and pleasure are not equivalent either. There can be happiness in pain. Take a look at a crucifix. That is not hedonism. It is not self-interest. It puts God first, not pleasure.
 
reggieM said:
Happiness and pleasure are not equivalent. Goodness and pleasure are not equivalent either. There can be happiness in pain. Take a look at a crucifix. That is not hedonism. It is not self-interest. It puts God first, not pleasure.
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That is not true. It’s literally impossible to be happy while you are in physical pain. I concede that happiness and pleasure are not necessarily synonymous. But pleasure and most of all freedom from pain is indispensable to happiness. You can’t even feel pleasure while in pain. If you disagree, then you have obviously never experienced true pain. Also, I want to clarify that hedonism does not mean self gain at the expense of anothers happiness. It does however assert that the point of life is to seek out positive stimuli and avoid negative stimuli. I can’t stand Buddhist, Hindu, and other religious platitudes wjjch attempt to deny this.
 
There would be no point in doing good or putting God first If it would not benefit you in some way.
 
someperson555 said:
There would be no point in doing good or putting God first If it would not benefit you in some way.
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Not really. There are saints that have said that they would love and worship God even if they had to suffer forever.

The point in worshipping God is not so we get a reward. It is because God is all good and deserving, worthy of the greatest possible love anyone could give Him. Even if we got nothing out of it. Even if we lost everything - we don’t do it for selfish reasons.

It’s all about love - self-giving love that forgets our own pleasure and benefit. It is self-emptying, not selfish.
 
someperson555 said:
That is not true. It’s literally impossible to be happy while you are in physical pain.
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Padre Pio. Ever heard of him? Alexandrina de Costa.
But pleasure and most of all freedom from pain is indispensable to happiness.
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Did you look at the crucifix? St. Paul says he is crucified. How about the sufferings he endured.
Also, I want to clarify that hedonism does not mean self gain at the expense of anothers happiness.
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I think, in reality, that’s what it does mean. Selfishness comes first. One’s own pleasure is the ultimate goal of everything. So, sacrifice which requires pain, would be against hedonism.
 
reggieM said:
Padre Pio. Ever heard of him? Alexandrina de Costa.

Did you look at the crucifix? St. Paul says he is crucified. How about the sufferings he endured.

I think, in reality, that’s what it does mean. Selfishness comes first. One’s own pleasure is the ultimate goal of everything. So, sacrifice which requires pain, would be against hedonism.
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I’m familiar with the saints. But I think they’re wrong. All of those sayings you’re referring to are just overly sentimental clichés. Those are things which people say just to say, but there’s zero truth behind it. It’s kind of like when a battered spouse says that they love their abuser.

It’s true that sometimes pain can be beneficial, but that ALWAYS depends on the ends. Of course it’s good when a person fasts to lose weight. Or studies to gain knowledge. He is enduring temporary pain for greater pleasure at the end ( beauty). But the problem with Buddhist, Christian, etc philosophy is that it views the pain and suffering as an end in itself. It’s totally dysgenic. It screams of nihilism. At least that’s the impression I got from my studies.
One of the biggest problems in our society, is that people are not sincere and genuine. They don’t mean what they say. That’s why we have a society full of erroneous philosophies like relativism and nihilism.
 
How did you come to the conclusion that the point of life is “to be happy”? Calling others hypocrites and telling us how wrong everyone else is doesn’t explain anything.
 
No my friend, that is simply not true. Those who live selfish and hedonistic lives are walking down the path of self-destruction. I can’t name one selfish hedonist in history who was actually “happy”. Self-denial and charity are what foster happiness in the hearts of humanity. I highly suggest that you read into the lives of St. Francis of Assisi, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Padre Pio, St. Therese of Lisieux, and St. Dominic among others.
 
OP, your mind is made up, and I will not change it. Nothing I could say would change it. I can only offer you the opening words of the Baltimore Catechism, that we were created to know, love, and serve God in this life, and be eternally happy with Him in the next. I am willing to put up with some minor inconvenience for the space of 80 years or so in order to achieve that eternal happiness. In that sense, happiness is indeed the goal.

Hedonism, on the other hand, is a human philosophy which, generally, limits itself to sensual self-indulgence as the highest good. This will expire at the end of 80 years or so, because the soul and the body will separate at death. I do not choose to be so limited.
 
You are going to spiral down from hedonism, and eventually at some point you’ll look back at life and understand an intense absurdity to pleasure and happiness. In fact, you might find life itself absurd, if not, become nihilistic in your outlook.

The point of life is purpose, and hedonism collapses in on itself because you have to depend on the ‘other’ to find life’s purpose, and if your happiness depends on something else, and if your pleasure is derived from the other, then realistically that cannot be the point of life. This cannot be life’s inherent purpose and design, because if you were born in a desert far off somewhere and dropped without any education or contact with other humans, you would not know any bit of the pleasure we know as a society. In fact, masturbation might be a foreign concept.

Life’s purpose is far more profound and mysterious. We did not end up here by accident, with all the trappings of existential living. No, there is much deeper. At least consider reading Kierkegaard, then we can talk about St Thomas Aquinas. You need to find it in yourself that you’re a part of a bigger spectrum of interlinking souls, an individual formed from dust, a person created out of pure, unblemished and sacrificial Love.
 
giuseppe96 said:
No my friend, that is simply not true. Those who live selfish and hedonistic lives are walking down the path of self-destruction. I can’t name one selfish hedonist in history who was actually “happy”. Self-denial and charity are what foster happiness in the hearts of humanity. I highly suggest that you read into the lives of St. Francis of Assisi, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Padre Pio, St. Therese of Lisieux, and St. Dominic among others.
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Once again. Clichés and platitudes. Your response is entirely Pavlovian. It reminds me of the part in 1984 when the protagonist was observing his surroundings and he saw a man talking with a girl. And he noted " it was his larynx that was talking, not his brain. The true path to happiness is freedom from pain and fear, then the fulfillments of your needs. Certain pleasures like money, sex, and food. These are indispensable to true lasting happiness. It doesn’t matter what the saints say. They’re wrong. Because I can tell you for a fact they were actually miserable on the inside. Sure they might have claimed to experience “joys” but I think this was only their self suggestion.
I’m a hedonist, I can tell you I’m happier now, than I e ever been in my life. There’s such a peace in my heart. I can be as healthy and beautiful as I want, I can pursue my desires without being afraid of some God punishing me for not following irrational rules and regulations. I can think what I want. And feel what I want. You know, last month, I went out to partty for the first time in YEARS. I was really sexually attractive, the girls noticed me. And I noticed them. I knew they were aroused by me abd i was by them. We flirted, and danced, then I got home and ordered a huge pizza. Ate it and fell asleep. Felt way better than my days of being dirty,emaciated, and full of fear. I can tell you that.
 
LoyalViews said:
You are going to spiral down from hedonism, and eventually at some point you’ll look back at life and understand an intense absurdity to pleasure and happiness. In fact, you might find life itself absurd, if not, become nihilistic in your outlook.

The point of life is purpose, and hedonism collapses in on itself because you have to depend on the ‘other’ to find life’s purpose, and if your happiness depends on something else, and if your pleasure is derived from the other, then realistically that cannot be the point of life. This cannot be life’s inherent purpose and design, because if you were born in a desert far off somewhere and dropped without any education or contact with other humans, you would not know any bit of the pleasure we know as a society. In fact, masturbation might be a foreign concept.

Life’s purpose is far more profound and mysterious. We did not end up here by accident, with all the trappings of existential living. No, there is much deeper. At least consider reading Kierkegaard, then we can talk about St Thomas Aquinas. You need to find it in yourself that you’re a part of a bigger spectrum of interlinking souls, an individual formed from dust, a person created out of pure, unblemished and sacrificial Love.
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I think you may have a slight misconception about hedonism. It’s one of those terms that that pop culture has misused so many times that It got distorted from its original meaning.
Many people think hedonism is just gratifying bass pleasures. That’s innacurate though. YES, according to hedonism, our base pleasures such as sex and food are very important ( hence the term basic). But there’s so much more beyond that. A great point of reference for example us Maslow’s heirarchy of needs. First come health, safety, and security, then things like sex and intimacy, then arts and science, and so forth. The problem I see with certain religions and belief systems, Is that they deny the need for pleasure. Its not in line with nature. That’s where all these clichés and errors come from. Every day uneducated people try to implement these flawed ideas, and they wonder why they’re never happy
 
“One of the keys to happiness is to adapt the situation to yourself, not youtself to the situation”
  • Aristippus
    This I think us a great truth. These days erroneous people tend to say the opposite. They espouse concepts like amor fati. But thats wrong. Happiness is not perception, its not a choice, it’s not perspective. There is s very clear objective criteria and path to happiness.
  1. eliminate pain and fear ( any stress)
    ,2) fulfill your needs
 
Also, even though Im not religious, I’m not trying to attack the idea of God, I’m just saying that even if there is a God, you can’t deny that the ultimate motivator for anything is pleasure and self interest. I don’t think Christianity us fatalistic at the core. However it did absorb a lot of that philosophy throughout time. The Greek philosophy of stoicism which was influenced by Buddhism. This became incorporated into Christianity. I always wondered where these modern errors come from ( like relativism). I found out it’s that lingering stoic/ Gnostic/ platonic philosophy. And now you see it even more with a resurgence of Eastern philosophies
 
someperson555 said:
Once again. Clichés and platitudes. Your response is entirely Pavlovian. It reminds me of the part in 1984 when the protagonist was observing his surroundings and he saw a man talking with a girl. And he noted " it was his larynx that was talking, not his brain. The true path to happiness is freedom from pain and fear, then the fulfillments of your needs. Certain pleasures like money, sex, and food. These are indispensable to true lasting happiness. It doesn’t matter what the saints say. They’re wrong. Because I can tell you for a fact they were actually miserable on the inside. Sure they might have claimed to experience “joys” but I think this was only their self suggestion.
I’m a hedonist, I can tell you I’m happier now, than I e ever been in my life. There’s such a peace in my heart. I can be as healthy and beautiful as I want, I can pursue my desires without being afraid of some God punishing me for not following irrational rules and regulations. I can think what I want. And feel what I want. You know, last month, I went out to partty for the first time in YEARS. I was really sexually attractive, the girls noticed me. And I noticed them. I knew they were aroused by me abd i was by them. We flirted, and danced, then I got home and ordered a huge pizza. Ate it and fell asleep. Felt way better than my days of being dirty,emaciated, and full of fear. I can tell you that.
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If you rely on deriving pleasure all your life, you will soon become bored to the point of doing more indulgent and selfish acts. I don’t understand why you see selfless and charitable people as “clichéd”, and vapid. How can you know what is going on inside a person’s mind, or what they felt? They found joy in servitude to the Lord. They may have had ups and downs, for they’re only human. But all in all, they were happy to leave the pleasures of the world behind to dedicate their lives to God. We know this for a fact based on their writings. Hedonism is a very detrimental path for you to travel, and will ultimately lead to an empty life and eternal damnation. I will pray for you my dear friend. Know that Jesus loves you and wants you to come to Him. :gopray:
 
venite_adoremus said:
OP, your mind is made up, and I will not change it. Nothing I could say would change it. I can only offer you the opening words of the Baltimore Catechism, that we were created to know, love, and serve God in this life, and be eternally happy with Him in the next. I am willing to put up with some minor inconvenience for the space of 80 years or so in order to achieve that eternal happiness. In that sense, happiness is indeed the goal.

Hedonism, on the other hand, is a human philosophy which, generally, limits itself to sensual self-indulgence as the highest good. This will expire at the end of 80 years or so, because the soul and the body will separate at death. I do not choose to be so limited.
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It’s more than just sensual self indulgence. Truly self actualized people aren’t like that. I’m not saying I’m self actualized yet. But me personally, yes I have sex sometimes. But I’m not preoccupied with it. I don’t think about it all the time. You know it’s funny, before I reverted to religion, I had a very healthy attitude towards sex. It was like water and food take it when you need it. But when I reverted, I became obsessed with it. I have figured out why. Because religion goes against man’s nature by denying basic needs such as money and sex. It’s OK to eat and have sex as long as it’s not an addiction. But according to religion, even normal sexual desire is a sin which must be eliminated. This really messes up a person’s mind. Think about it, if I told you are only allowed to have water only once a week, you would become obsessed with it. It would be all you ever think about. You could never be truly happy because you are always in want. Religion does the same thing. It denies basic needs. So people are ina constant state of depression. They can never self actualize because they are blocked from moving up the ladder of needs.
 
giuseppe96 said:
If you rely on deriving pleasure all your life, you will soon become bored to the point of doing more indulgent and selfish acts. I don’t understand why you see selfless and charitable people as “clichéd”, and vapid. How can you know what is going on inside a person’s mind, or what they felt? They found joy in servitude to the Lord. They may have had ups and downs, for they’re only human. But all in all, they were happy to leave the pleasures of the world behind to dedicate their lives to God. We know this for a fact based on their writings. Hedonism is a very detrimental path for you to travel, and will ultimately lead to an empty life and eternal damnation. I will pray for you my dear friend. Know that Jesus loves you and wants you to come to Him. :gopray:
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I’m not saying their selfless acts were bad. But why is it necessary to take a vow of poverty? What if you’re rich but you give a lot to needy people?
Anyway, my whole point was not religion vs x ideology. It was just to show that wether or not there is God, the primary driver is self interest. Christianity actually has no issue with this. Because you could say that God is leading us to heaven through oury survival instinct. Christianity teaches that the ultimate pleasure is the beatific vison. I’m just criticizing certain religious and secular altitude attitudes
 
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