Hell: Is it a real place or not?

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Hey all at the CAF,

I’ve been on these forums a little while and I’ve seen what I think is rare among christians as a whole. Someone (who will remain unnamed unless they post in this thread) told me that they don’t believe in a literal Hell. I’ve never heard this outside of the JW beliefs and wonder how those who believe in it justify it. Any (name removed by moderator)ut?

Many thanks in advance.
 
The Christian will not be able to justify the believe in no hell. Christ teaches us and warns us about hell.

People throw this doctrine out for a variety of reasons, but the truth is that hell was taught by Jesus and has always been taught by the Church.

It is ironic for people to say there can’t be a hell on the basis that God is love. For the same source that says God is love also says there is hell. By reason alone you can’t say that God is love; both are taught in Scripture; so there really is no point at all to say that a loving God can’t allow hell.

If someone is willing to say the two are contradictory, then that person doesn’t understand the nature of free will. God’s love constitutes free will and respects our choices.
 
Some things to consider about hell:

– If there’s no hell, and no danger of damnation, why did Jesus find it necessary to die on the cross to save us?

– We know that God is infinite Love, infinite Mercy, infinite Goodness; but we don’t stop to think (a) how awesome and terrible this is, and (b) that God is also infinite Justice. We are apt to take God’s infinite love, mercy and goodness rather too lightly; but the reality is that we could not withstand them in all their fullness and truth and majesty. This is why Scripture tells us that no one can look on the face of God and live (cf. Exodus 33:20). In short, we are apt to regard God’s goodness with a sort of superficial sentimentality and really don’t give it the serious consideration it deserves.

– Because God is infinitely loving, merciful, just and good, He must also be infinitely outraged by sin and evil. That is why it makes sense for there to be a hell for those who choose sin and evil over God.

– If God did not love us, He would neither warn us of the danger of damnation nor provide us with the means of avoiding it.

– How could God at one and the same time love us, and allow us to do whatever we want without consequences? (Parents: would such a policy work with your kids?) If it were true that what we do doesn’t matter, wouldn’t it also be true that we don’t matter?

I don’t know whether hell has size or location or dimensions like a physical object; but I do know it’s for real, and it’s forever.
 
catholic1seeks said:
The Christian will not be able to justify the believe in no hell. Christ teaches us and warns us about hell.

People throw this doctrine out for a variety of reasons, but the truth is that hell was taught by Jesus and has always been taught by the Church.

It is ironic for people to say there can’t be a hell on the basis that God is love. For the same source that says God is love also says there is hell. By reason alone you can’t say that God is love; both are taught in Scripture; so there really is no point at all to say that a loving God can’t allow hell.

If someone is willing to say the two are contradictory, then that person doesn’t understand the nature of free will. God’s love constitutes free will and respects our choices.
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You know, I have been concerned for some time about the number of people who are adopting the idea that God’s love precludes an actual hell. I am very much afraid that a number of those folks saying that, are going to end up going to hell, and we need–desperately–to pray that they shall understand that hell is real, and that it is possible to end up going there…
I mean, I guess it would be pretty to think that everybody goes to Heaven, until you realize that means that Heaven would be…well. It would be hell, not Heaven.
(But I don’t capitalize it. And I don’t give satan a capital either; he hasn’t earned it.)
 
Zooey said:
You know, I have been concerned for some time about the number of people who are adopting the idea that God’s love precludes an actual hell. I am very much afraid that a number of those folks saying that, are going to end up going to hell, and we need–desperately–to pray that they shall understand that hell is real, and that it is possible to end up going there…
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Some of the great mystics, like St. Faustina and St. John Bosco, were made to visit hell, both to witness to its existence and to spur them on to greater zeal for souls. St. Faustina said that many of the souls in hell were of those who disbelieved that there is a hell.
 
TheWhoFreak said:
Hey all at the CAF,

I’ve been on these forums a little while and I’ve seen what I think is rare among christians as a whole. Someone (who will remain unnamed unless they post in this thread) told me that they don’t believe in a literal Hell. I’ve never heard this outside of the JW beliefs and wonder how those who believe in it justify it. Any (name removed by moderator)ut?

Many thanks in advance.
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I think there are two questions here with potentially two seperate answers.

The first is – Does Hell exist?

The answer to that, based off of scripture and Tradition is yes (Personal revelations are great, but are just that personal… we can trust them because they agree with what the Church already teaches).

The second is — Is it a real place?

The answer here I think is a little more open to personal belief and interpretation. My personal belief is that Hell, while it exists, is not a literal place. Rather it is the state of ultimate seperation from God. Since even in human form, our soul depends on a connection with God, we cannot imagine the torment we would feel if we were truely seperated (hence the images of fire and other tortures). Likewise, we might also be subjected to extra torments devised by the Devil and his minions who try to allieviate their suffering by imposing additional suffering on the souls of the lost.

–
Bill
 
I believe in a state of suffering after death related to the decisions one has made on Earth. I do not however believe in a literal devil/demons that would rule over said state.
 
For a Christian, hell is a non-optional/non-subjective teaching of our Faith. It’s existence does not depend on our feelings, personal preferences or current societal views. Our religion is a revealed one, and we can’t pick and choose tenets of our Faith to fit our preferred world-view. If one does not like the idea of hell, the answer is not to deny or downplay it’s existence, but rather to live one’s life in conformity the the teachings of Christ’s Church so that we (and others) do not end up there.

As was pointed out, Sacred Scripture (primarily the New Testament) is very clear on the existence of hell (It is also often correctly pointed out that kind, gentle and merciful Jesus spoke more often off hell than of heaven). It is indeed a state (of being), as well as a place (since we know that, after the general judgement at the end of time, all recieve their bodies back, the blessed recieving glorified bodies and the reprobate receiving, well, *un-*glorified bodies. A body must reside in a place.)

Also, Church teaching has always been very clear on this subject. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):
**HELL **
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1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.*613 *To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”
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**1034 **Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.*614 *Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”*616 *
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**1035 **The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
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**1036 **The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”*618 *
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Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619
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1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:*621 *
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Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622
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612 1 Jn 3:14-15.
613 Cf. Mt 25:31-46.
614 Cf. Mt 5:22,29; 10:28; 13:42,50; Mk 9:43-48.
615 Mt 13:41-42.
616 Mt 25:41.
617 Cf. DS 76; 409; 411; 801; 858; 1002; 1351; 1575; Paul VI, CPG § 12.
618 Mt 7:13-14.
619 LG 48 § 3; Mt 22:13; cf. Heb 9:27; Mt 25:13,26,30,31-46.
620 Cf. Council of Orange II (529):DS 397; Council of Trent (1547):1567.
621 2 Pet 3:9.
622 Roman Missal, EP I (Roman Canon) 88.
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scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm#1035
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This article may be helpful:
rosary-center.org/ll44n6.htm

Hope that helps. 🙂
 
Fidelis said:
It is indeed a state (of being), as well as a place (since we know that, after the general judgement at the end of time, all recieve their bodies back, the blessed recieving glorified bodies and the reprobate receiving, well, *un-*glorified bodies. A body must reside in a place.)
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Well, a spiritualized body such as Jesus and Mary now have, and we will have after the general resurrection, does not necessarily have a location, so hell still does not necessarily have to have a physical place. But bound as we are to this earth, and subject to its limitations, we necessarily describe hell as a place, even though the idea of place is probably wide of the mark.

Regardless, we don’t want to go there, and must do all we can to avoid going there.
 
Victorious said:
Well, a spiritualized body such as Jesus and Mary now have, and we will have after the general resurrection, does not necessarily have a location, so hell still does not necessarily have to have a physical place. But bound as we are to this earth, and subject to its limitations, we necessarily describe hell as a place, even though the idea of place is probably wide of the mark.
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Actually, the Church teaches that, unlike those who are in heaven now (Jesus and Mary are notable exceptions), our bodies after the general judgement will not be ‘spiritual’ but will, in fact, be the bodies we now possess, albiet in glorified, imperishable form. Again from the CCC:
**1023 **Those who die in God’s grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they “see him as he is,” face to face:598
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By virtue of our apostolic authority, we define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ’s holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .) already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment - and this since the Ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven - have been, are and will be in heaven, in the heavenly Kingdom and celestial paradise with Christ, joined to the company of the holy angels. Since the Passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ, these souls have seen and do see the divine essence with an intuitive vision, and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature.599
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1059 “The holy Roman Church firmly believes and confesses that on the Day of Judgment all men will appear in their own bodies before Christ’s tribunal to render an account of their own deeds” (Council of Lyons II [1274]:dS 859; cf. dS 1549).
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1060 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. Then the just will reign with Christ for ever, glorified in body and soul, and the material universe itself will be transformed. God will then be “all in all” (1 Cor 15:28), in eternal life.
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598 1 Jn 3:2; cf. 1 Cor 13:12; Rev 22:4.
599 Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336):dS 1000; cf. LG 49.
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Thus, we will have our bodies again, but glorified and fit for the new heavens and the new earth where we will dwell with God forever.
 
Fidelis said:
Thus, we will have our bodies again, but glorified and fit for the new heavens and the new earth where we will dwell with God forever.
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Yeah. We don’t disagree. I just put it a different way. Our bodies will be spiritualized, because like spirits, they will be impassible, and no longer subject to the constraints of time and space – like Jesus’ Body after the Resurrection.
 
Fidelis said:
Actually, the Church teaches that, unlike those who are in heaven now (Jesus and Mary are notable exceptions), our bodies after the general judgement will not be ‘spiritual’ but will, in fact, be the bodies we now possess, albiet in glorified, imperishable form. Again from the CCC:
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I think the question here is what exactly constitutes a body. Both our current bodies and our resurrected bodies must share all the essential attributes of a body (i.e. what constitutes the substance of a body). The problem is that we don’t necessarily know what attributes are essential to a body and what are accidental.

As far as I can, nothing in the sections of the CC that you quoted defines those essential attributes either. It is therefore possible that a physical presence (as we understand it) may in fact be an accidental quality of a body and therefore not required to be present in our resurrected bodies.

Certainly, even if a physical existence is required of a transfigured body, it will be a different sort of physical reality than we are use to since in our universe, all things physical are destined ultimately to decay.

Mind you, I am open to correction on this or any of my speculations here :).
Thus, we will have our bodies again, but glorified and fit for the new heavens and the new earth where we will dwell with God forever.
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Yep, I can agree with that. Its just, I think we should be careful of trying to impose our own view on how it might be.

–
Bill
 
🙂 Oh, I agree in the main with both of you. I don’t want to give the impression that I believe that our glorified bodies will be exactly the same as they are now but only somehow better. My main concern is to keep in mind what the Church *does *teach about the afterlife, and particularly it’s actual existence and it’s materiality (in whatever form that may be.)

Beyond what has been revealed to the Church by God, there isn’t a whole lot we can know about the exact nature of the afterlife. Reason based firmly on revelation can help somewhat, but anything beyond that is only pure speculation on our parts, and should always be presented as such.

These two articles from the same source cited in a previous post may also be helpful:

rosary-center.org/ll42n6.htm
OUR ETERNAL REWARD

rosary-center.org/ll43n1.htm
THE RESURRECTION OF THE BODY
 
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