Hell & Lake of Fire

[Cruxis117]

I was speaking to a Protestant about Hell, and he said that Hell and the Lake of Fire are two different things, though they are not different functionally. That Hell would eventually end, but the torment would continue in the “Lake of Fire”. He used this scripture to support his claim:

[BIBLEDRB]Revelation 20:14[/BIBLEDRB]

From the CCC, this is what we understand:

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” 617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

So, what would I say to this Protestant with regards to his claim? What are your thoughts?

 

[GEddie]

As I understand it, the LOF is “Hell” once the world as we know it goes into Eternity and Purgatory is closed down; whereas “Hell” is where unforgiven sinners go now. At the end of the world, “Hell” becomes the LOF.

But to those who go there, they are the same.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

The problem with protestants and doctrine is that they have little to no systematic theology and have an underlying nominalism, that God can do anything even the contradictory with no injustice. Catholic theology is systematic and has views of God based on His creation resembling His nature as effects reflect their causes.

To agree with GEddie, as St. Thomas Aquinas relates that hell and purgatory are the same place but different as to the permanence of hell or the transience of purgatory, then the “pool of fire” and hell are perhaps related as the same in nature, but the pool of fire being separation from God in permanence at the end of time as opposed to hell now being prior to the final judgment. It would all be separation from God. The day of judgment will also be the beginning of the new heavens and new earth with the end of all evil. Peter Kreeft calls this action on the last day “God’s garbage truck taking all evil to the incinerator, and if we have glued ourselves to these evils, we too will be burned up with them”, to paraphrase.

 

[jk89]

You are all Godless blasphemers. The lake of fire is the presence of God, Hell is separation from God. Unity with God comes only through the fire of Conscience, and separation from God comes through the fire of Passion.

 

[Cruxis117]

You are all Godless blasphemers. The lake of fire is the presence of God, Hell is separation from God. Unity with God comes only through the fire of Conscience, and separation from God comes through the fire of Passion.

Excuse me, sir, but your comment has no logic to it. The Lake of fire is devoid of the presence of God. Hell is a separation of God, that is true. What is your religious affiliation?

 

[TimothyH]

A bit of knowledge about the geography of Jerusalem and the surrounding countryside and the practices and custom’s of the Jews who lived there disproves the accusation of blasphemy.

The Lake of Fire is Gehenna, Geenna, in Greek, Ge Hinnom in Hebrew. This is the “Valley of Hinnom” located outside of Jerusalem and was where some early Israelites worshipped Baal and sacrificed children, burning them alive in sacrifice to the god Molech.

Part of the valley has many tombs, and many of the 1.2 million Jews killed when the 10th Roman Legion destroyed Jerusalem were cremated there. Thus, Jesus’ reference to being thrown into “Firery Gehenna” may be both prophecy and use of the place to describe Hell.

Here is where the Bible shows the accusation of blasphemy to be rediculous as well.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You traverse sea and land to make one convert, and when that happens you make him a child of Gehenna twice as much as yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

The “Children of Gehenna” probably references the children sacrificed to Molech at that location. The details of sacrificing children to Molech could make you sick to read about it.

There are many passages in the OT about Molech and sacrifice of children and much of what Jesus says references many of these Old Testament passages.

-Tim-

 

[jk89]

Gehenna is Hell, neither of which is the lake of fire. Thus your blasphemy continues.

Maybe you missed the point where it says, They will be tormented in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

It won’t be much of a Judgement if you don’t stand before the Judge.

 

[Dave_B]

You are all Godless blasphemers…

What? I think you’ll find that there are many kind and Christian people on this forum. You have to show charity here if you want to stick around.

 

[RyanBlack]

The problem with protestants and doctrine is that they have little to no systematic theology

That is a gross oversimplification that needs a bit of qualification. There are some Protestants who have little to no systematic theology, while there are others whose theology is quite systematic.

 

[steve_b]

You are all Godless blasphemers. The lake of fire is the presence of God, Hell is separation from God. Unity with God comes only through the fire of Conscience, and separation from God comes through the fire of Passion.

Are you perhaps a JW or a Mormon?

Revelation 20:12-15 we read,

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead in it, death and hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. . . . [A]nd if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

btw, the lake of fire burns forever…"The smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest (Rv 14:11); the rich man, “being in torment,” calls out, “I am in anguish in this blazing fire” (Lk 16:23-24); “there men will weep and gnash their teeth” (Mt 8:12)…forever!

 

[Doxiemom]

They are two different places.

Hell is in the earth. The lake of Fire is on the earth and is to be visable during the thousand year rein of Christ. No one knows exactly, but it has been speculated that it will be where the dead Sea is now-which it is supposed that Sodom was.

Seems to me that since it is called “the second death” because those is hell are called forth for their final judgement at the Great White Throne. And then formally sentenced to the LOF.

Just the term “second death” sends shivers through me, it seems as if it is notches worse than hell.

Read it. It is in Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Which is a better title than Armageddon, which is a battle in the field of Megedo

 

[wodanbrlam]

Ahh! I stand corrected then, Thanks for clearing that up.

http://www.canadablackberry.com/imgs/images/3.gif

 

[ltwin]

I was speaking to a Protestant about Hell, and he said that Hell and the Lake of Fire are two different things, though they are not different functionally. That Hell would eventually end, but the torment would continue in the “Lake of Fire”. He used this scripture to support his claim:

[BIBLEDRB]Revelation 20:14[/BIBLEDRB]

From the CCC, this is what we understand:

So, what would I say to this Protestant with regards to his claim? What are your thoughts?

Your Protestant friend is talking about Protestant conceptions of the intermediate state after death. His terminology is a bit off though. When unbelievers die, they go straight to “hades,” the abode of the wicked dead. This is different from hell or the lake of fire. Since the wicked dead do not go to their final perdition until after the Last Judgement when they are cast into the lake of fire, the word hell should not be used to describe the present state of the wicked dead. As far as is known, no one is at present in hell, which is the lake of fire. The wicked are present in hades, awaiting the resurrection of judgment. Hades is, however, a place of suffering.