Hell underworld

[billcu1]

I have heard that in early Christianity and before the “Divine Comedy” Catholicism nor Judaism (even today) talked much about hell. Well from studying Judaism I’m not sure of many similarities. There was never any “forever” doctrine. Jesus spoke of the local “Trash dump” and Church doctrine took over from there. It was dubbed Hell. Some church doctrines and the teachings of “eternal damnation” well they don’t quite fit and to me seem more like a scare tactic for “my/our way or the highway.” It is taught in Christianity concerning “Jesus is the only way”. He didn’t directly teach things like that. But he could forgive sins. Theocracy well…you just can’t have competition.

FWIW

 

[Stillsosola]

The bible mentions sheol or the jewish underworld numerous times but not as punishment i suppose sort of like the greek underworld perhaps? There are few catholics who are catholic out of fear of hell. I myself am with you i detest preachers or religious leaders using it as a scare tactic here was a puritan preacher who delivered sermons on hell so scary people would grab thier seats and tremble that to me is not what religion is about jesus spoke of gehenna as you mentioned and sheol but not necessarily hell well depending on the translation you read. Ive read sheol, gehenna, outer darkness, the lake of fire but not hell per se you raise a good theological question hope an apologist or someone with more understanding than i can help you

 

[billcu1]

The bible mentions sheol or the jewish underworld numerous times but not as punishment i suppose sort of like the greek underworld perhaps? There are few catholics who are catholic out of fear of hell. I myself am with you i detest preachers or religious leaders using it as a scare tactic here was a puritan preacher who delivered sermons on hell so scary people would grab thier seats and tremble that to me is not what religion is about jesus spoke of gehenna as you mentioned and sheol but not necessarily hell well depending on the translation you read. Ive read sheol, gehenna, outer darkness, the lake of fire but not hell per se you raise a good theological question hope an apologist or someone with more understanding than i can help you

Lake of fire would be interesting to know the origin of. Zoraster I believe did have some fire. And the God that was involved with Gehenna may have been involved with some fire too. Satan I’m not sure of the origin of that but several of the saints are said to have spoke with him so I accept that.

 

[CaptainPicard]

I have heard that in early Christianity and before the “Divine Comedy” Catholicism nor Judaism (even today) talked much about hell. Well from studying Judaism I’m not sure of many similarities. There was never any “forever” doctrine. Jesus spoke of the local “Trash dump” and Church doctrine took over from there. It was dubbed Hell. Some church doctrines and the teachings of “eternal damnation” well they don’t quite fit and to me seem more like a scare tactic for “my/our way or the highway.” It is taught in Christianity concerning “Jesus is the only way”. He didn’t directly teach things like that. But he could forgive sins. Theocracy well…you just can’t have competition.

FWIW

Hell is mentioned pretty often in scripture. Less so in the OT, but the afterworld wasn’t as much of an emphasis, and then wasn’t as clearly defined. Heaven wasn’t opened yet, and all of the dead went to Sheol – though there’s an idea present in scripture that even then they were separate from each other, the righteous in a sort of paradise, and the wicked being punished. One of the main themes of the OT is that of the new creation in the eschaton, a theme picked up heavily by the NT writers and Jesus. It would take a much larger discussion to go into detail.

Here’s a list of verses on hell:
biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/hell-bible-verses/

Here’s a list of early Church fathers mentioning hell (pre-divine comedy):
catholic.com/tracts/the-hell-there-is

Edit: Also, since you mentioned the lives of the saints in your second post here visions of hell had by three saints:
aleteia.org/en/religion/article/3-absolutely-terrifying-visions-of-hell-5574001

Regarding Jesus being the only way, it’s an idea found all over the NT. Two examples are Jn 14:6 and Jn 10:9.

At the end of the day, I think one can distract himself with ideas of “oh, isn’t that convenient, they claim their faith is the only way, just like all the others!” But the only thing that you need to concern yourself with, is what is true and what isn’t. Is Christianity true? If not, don’t worry about it. If so, you need to deliberately and soberly learn about Jesus and His teachings.

 

[Even_So]

i detest preachers or religious leaders using it as a scare tactic

Hell isn’t what we always want to hear about, but it is what we need to hear about. I’ve seen the Lake of Fire in my “stupid” days, and i have never been so terrified in my life, EVER. If the emphasis is on hell all the time, it might not be the right church for you. And if they never preach it, it ain’t either. But sometimes the right church will make you feel a little uncomfortable on occasion. And that ain’t a bad thing.

 

[billcu1]

Hell is mentioned pretty often in scripture. Less so in the OT, but the afterworld wasn’t as much of an emphasis, and then wasn’t as clearly defined. Heaven wasn’t opened yet, and all of the dead went to Sheol – though there’s an idea present in scripture that even then they were separate from each other, the righteous in a sort of paradise, and the wicked being punished. One of the main themes of the OT is that of the new creation in the eschaton, a theme picked up heavily by the NT writers and Jesus. It would take a much larger discussion to go into detail.

Here’s a list of verses on hell:
biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/hell-bible-verses/

Here’s a list of early Church fathers mentioning hell (pre-divine comedy):
catholic.com/tracts/the-hell-there-is

Edit: Also, since you mentioned the lives of the saints in your second post here visions of hell had by three saints:
aleteia.org/en/religion/article/3-absolutely-terrifying-visions-of-hell-5574001

Regarding Jesus being the only way, it’s an idea found all over the NT. Two examples are Jn 14:6 and Jn 10:9.

At the end of the day, I think one can distract himself with ideas of “oh, isn’t that convenient, they claim their faith is the only way, just like all the others!” But the only thing that you need to concern yourself with, is what is true and what isn’t. Is Christianity true? If not, don’t worry about it. If so, you need to deliberately and soberly learn about Jesus and His teachings.

The only thing I can I believe disagree with you on is sheoul being “undefined”. The OT teachers knew exactly what they were talking about. It’s what it has always been “the place where the dead go”. That can be many “places”. This place can be a hell for some. Purgatory for others. And for those pure enough. The depths of Hell do not effect them it’s a paradise. As for there being no heaven. “Heights” was translated as heaven and correct Jesus had not yet said. “I go to prepare a place for you”. But others Such as Amitabha for one had for eons a “heaven” created and said just call on me and I will allow you in. I make no light is Jesus and the forgiveness of sins by the priesthood.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[billcu1]

The above is kind of a soteriologic point of view.

 

[Stillsosola]

Hell isn’t what we always want to hear about, but it is what we need to hear about. I’ve seen the Lake of Fire in my “stupid” days, and i have never been so terrified in my life, EVER. If the emphasis is on hell all the time, it might not be the right church for you. And if they never preach it, it ain’t either. But sometimes the right church will make you feel a little uncomfortable on occasion. And that ain’t a bad thing.

Im speaking about preachers using it to scare you into being christian my fathers parents belong to that church at mu grandaddys funeral his preacher failed to speak about him he spoke only of hell and damnation telling us that if we arent born again we will go to hell also walked up and told me i was going to burn in hell for being a catholic hell should not be the reason someone is christian love of christ should in my iin my opinion at least