Hell

[Layman]

Well, consider the contrary:

**How could a person whose heart/spirit/soul is marked with a preference for evil acts ever sit in the company of the Heavenly Host?
**
Even the apostles on Mount Tabor were dazzled when Christ showed them a little of His true nature. How much worse would it be for a criminal.

Consider yer average bloke living in sin, who has rejected Christ’s teaching, who is unrepentant, who maybe did one very bad thing a long time ago and has convinced himself it was OK …

Or all these drug taking, promiscuous, abortion-condoning, feckless people who are in-and-out of jail, who’ve had kids out of wedlock and traumatised them in their upbringing …

Or the really nasty pieces of work, who do evil, and like it.

Someone is doing all these killings, abortions, and petty everyday acts of betrayal. Many people.

How can they sit at table in the court of Christ The King and look Him in the face?

I think the smart move is to assume Christ is strict and to aim for saintly levels of goodness. If you do your very best, surely He will have to let you in.

In my opinion modernist notions of Jesus being easy-going have been carried too far. They’re dangerous. The caricature I have in my mind is of the Mafioso with a crucifix tattoo; he thinks if he repents on his deathbed he’ll still be OK. Which it would be. If he got the chance.

It occurred to me recently that if you get mown down in the street you won’t get a chance to say a last Confiteor. Start being pious today, and persevere!

 

[Hislittlelady]

It is my belief that every single person is destined for heaven, aside from those who absolutely refuse to accept God in any way, shape or form. There are those who have completely turned their hearts to stone against him. How can they get into heaven, even though we know God will give them one chance after the next until their dying breath, if these people refuse to accept His mercy and Grace, even at the point of death. That is a sin against the Holy Spirit and I would think that once that soul has crossed over, there is no more chance. Who knows why this is, but according to most Christian teaching, it is so. It is my understanding that we have a chance up until we draw our last breath on earth.

Who can say what kind of dialogue goes on between God and his dying child, in that in between place between heaven and earth? Wouldn’t one think that God loves every one of his children, even those with the blackest of sins, and if let’s just say he does come to them at the very moment of death and still they turn away from him, then it means they do not want him as their Father. They prefer Satan to Him. They have hearts of stone and I’ll bet you it breaks God’s heart horribly. He is pure love. Some people actually want to live with the devil. That’s very obvious from anyone who joins the church of satan, or wiccans, or anything that is in opposition to the Word of God. Our journey is supposed to be toward him, not to live for this world alone.

If we, being human, lose a child through tragedy, death or even if that child no longer wants any connection to their own parent, the heartache these parents endure has no words to express the pain involved, and I know this for fact because I live it every day, except mine was from death. Imagine how God must feel when this is done to HIm. Nothing impure can go near God.

The bible says hell is eternal and we must take Him at His word. He wouldn’t lie to us. God is all truth and if he speaks this, then it is so, you can bet on that. I also believe there are many people who just can’t seem to get it. I’m sure our merciful Lord makes provisions for them too. I myself know people that are in such a spiritual darkness and can’t find any way out, even when you tell them the way, they still do not comprehend. God will work it out with them. I believe this.

Who can say what hell is like. It sure is nothing our human brain can understand or even try to imagine. We can say spiritual fire, real fire, absence of God, etc. etc., but still we cannot understand one single aspect of it. That is in the spiritual realm and not for us to know or imagine. It cannot be done. All we can do is play guessing games and read the bible and take it at it’s word for the most part. Still since we’re human, we just can’t help our speculations. It’s in our nature.

As far as I can tell or understand, I’d think the only people that are destined for hell are those who fully, completely and finally reject God up to and including the point of death. That will be forever. God have mercy on us all. Please bring sinners to repentence and save them from the fires of hell. For this I pray.

 

[Timothysis]

What does this have to do with hell having real fire (or not)?

One does not have to believe in the apparition at Fatima, however I do & also believe Sr. Lucia’s description of hell!

As I said before, a vision is not the same as a material reality. Visions are used to make a statement, not to show what something “is.” Do you assume that God looks like a burning bush because of the way he appeared to Moses?

The Blessed Mother told the children at Fatima that if mankind could truly comprehend eternity, they would take life here on Earth much more serious. The same can be said for the punishments of hell. Can you truly comprehend a “place” where fires burn eternally and the damned thrash about in lakes of fire? Can you comprehend what it is like to be infinitely immersed in God’s love? If you can, then tell us what it is like. If not, you may need to use some type of literary device to try and convey the meaning to us. We cannot comprehend the presence of Christ in us after receiving communion, either but we know He’s there, don’t we??? Can you explain the physical presence of Christ in us???

 

[eelpis]

It’s only a theory but it contains valuable theological info. What we do now determines what will happen then, how we respond to the invitation of God’s love, the gospel. The same love of God can cause suffering and joy, depending on our perception of it and our objective state and capacity for grace.

The Catholic author George Bernanos used a telling description, in his “Journal d’un curé de campange”, “Hell is not to love any more.” St Thomas uses the term homo incurvatus in se, man closed in on himself.

To the one who does not love, God’s pure love is torture.

Just my musings.

 

[giuseppeTO]

It is my belief that every single person is destined for heaven, aside from those who absolutely refuse to accept God in any way, shape or form. There are those who have completely turned their hearts to stone against him. How can they get into heaven, even though we know God will give them one chance after the next until their dying breath, if these people refuse to accept His mercy and Grace, even at the point of death. That is a sin against the Holy Spirit and I would think that once that soul has crossed over, there is no more chance. Who knows why this is, but according to most Christian teaching, it is so. It is my understanding that we have a chance up until we draw our last breath on earth.

Who can say what kind of dialogue goes on between God and his dying child, in that in between place between heaven and earth? Wouldn’t one think that God loves every one of his children, even those with the blackest of sins, and if let’s just say he does come to them at the very moment of death and still they turn away from him, then it means they do not want him as their Father. They prefer Satan to Him. They have hearts of stone and I’ll bet you it breaks God’s heart horribly. He is pure love. Some people actually want to live with the devil. That’s very obvious from anyone who joins the church of satan, or wiccans, or anything that is in opposition to the Word of God. Our journey is supposed to be toward him, not to live for this world alone.

If we, being human, lose a child through tragedy, death or even if that child no longer wants any connection to their own parent, the heartache these parents endure has no words to express the pain involved, and I know this for fact because I live it every day, except mine was from death. Imagine how God must feel when this is done to HIm. Nothing impure can go near God.

The bible says hell is eternal and we must take Him at His word. He wouldn’t lie to us. God is all truth and if he speaks this, then it is so, you can bet on that. I also believe there are many people who just can’t seem to get it. I’m sure our merciful Lord makes provisions for them too. I myself know people that are in such a spiritual darkness and can’t find any way out, even when you tell them the way, they still do not comprehend. God will work it out with them. I believe this.

Who can say what hell is like. It sure is nothing our human brain can understand or even try to imagine. We can say spiritual fire, real fire, absence of God, etc. etc., but still we cannot understand one single aspect of it. That is in the spiritual realm and not for us to know or imagine. It cannot be done. All we can do is play guessing games and read the bible and take it at it’s word for the most part. Still since we’re human, we just can’t help our speculations. It’s in our nature.

As far as I can tell or understand, I’d think the only people that are destined for hell are those who fully, completely and finally reject God up to and including the point of death. That will be forever. God have mercy on us all. Please bring sinners to repentence and save them from the fires of hell. For this I pray.

One of the things we need to be careful of is infusing our own beliefs on matters of faith. We differ from our Protestant brethren in that we don’t have the luxury of reading scripture, bouncing it against or human sensibilities and emotions, and forming our own truth. We have the Magisterium of the church which is composed of scripture, apostolic revelation, the church councils, the Popes, and the doctors of the church which tell us what the scriptures mean and how we must interpret them. The teaching on hell is very unequivocal as a place of physical suffering that lasts for eternity. We merit that punishment if we die absent the state of grace which is caused by unforgiven mortal sin. Up until that point, God is infinately merciful to us, providing us with the grace to avoid mortal sin and to seek absolution when out of grace. After that point, His justice comes into play and the soul flees from the presence of God unable to exist in His presence.

That has ever been the teaching of the church and codified in Catechisms. The Father of Lies desires nothing more than to deceive us with arguments like “surely a kind God would never send a child of His to perdition … especially for one puny mortal sin”. What parent among us would not forgive a child the worse of offenses? Surely God is better than that.

It is the consistent teaching of the church, especially the doctors such as ST. Augustine and St. Alphonsus that more are lost to hell than are saved.

 

[distracted]

Well, consider the contrary:

**How could a person whose heart/spirit/soul is marked with a preference for evil acts ever sit in the company of the Heavenly Host? ** this kind of thought helps me to realize that my inclination to reject the eternity of Hell in any way is … well, misguided or whatever…

Or all these drug taking, promiscuous, abortion-condoning, feckless people who are in-and-out of jail, who’ve had kids out of wedlock and traumatised them in their upbringing …/

yes, but people often do these things out of ignorance… They do not realize what thye are doing (Father, forgive them, they know not what thye do") … I believe God will eventually SHOW them what they are doing, though… and then, if they don’t repent, well, they can’t claim ignorance anymore… This reminds me of something: when a person spends time with Jesus (it goes without saying) He sees the true condition of his soul… and one does not see this when one is not There… again, this goes without saying… but anyway… Since this is the case, why do so few people spend time with Jesus at the Blessed Sacrament? I sometimes wonder if that, more than about anything, is why so few “find the narrow way to etenal life” (St. Mt 7:13-)

he thinks if he repents on his deathbed he’ll still be OK. Which it would be. If he got the chance.

B]

Yes, but what about people who go to Church all the time, thinking that that (virtually alone) will save them?? True, it helps because they hear the Word daily but hearing and doing are two different things… I really believe there are a lot of people who think that way… that just going to Church suffices… a relative comes to mind but i know i cannot judge… all i know is that this relative treats me like dirt… (maggot-infested dirt even)… Oh well… i ought to be used to it…

I seem to annoy just about everyone…

Hmm… i digress somewhat…

I woiuld really like to know what you think about that… people who go to Mass and think that’s about all they have to do to make it to Heaven… Do you suspect there are people who fit that descirption in your life? I mean… You will know them by their fruits and all…

 

[Like]

As I said before, a vision is not the same as a material reality. Visions are used to make a statement, not to show what something “is.” Do you assume that God looks like a burning bush because of the way he appeared to Moses?

The Blessed Mother told the children at Fatima that if mankind could truly comprehend eternity, they would take life here on Earth much more serious. The same can be said for the punishments of hell. Can you truly comprehend a “place” where fires burn eternally and the damned thrash about in lakes of fire? Can you comprehend what it is like to be infinitely immersed in God’s love? If you can, then tell us what it is like. If not, you may need to use some type of literary device to try and convey the meaning to us. We cannot comprehend the presence of Christ in us after receiving communion, either but we know He’s there, don’t we??? Can you explain the physical presence of Christ in us???

My response was to this statement of yours!

Keep in mind that the Blessed Mother always looked different in her many apparitions.

I can not truly comprehend a “place” where fires burn eternally and the damned thrash about in lakes of fire. However, I stand by what I believe hell to be like according to Sr. Lucia’s vision.

And I really don’t care what liberals (you) believe!

 

[Layman]

Well, if going to Mass was enough to get you into Heaven then any rascal could go and be saved. That would be nice

Distracted, I would try not to worry too much about other people. There’s a happy medium here between sloth and scrupulousity. Pray for them and interject at the right moment to correct them if you can. There’s a knack to this. I’ve read it as being described as the ‘blessed moment’ by a non-Catholic Christian gnostic writer; the moment when grace can work.

Sometimes a direct approach works. You can state the doctrine of the Church plainly to their faces. Or other times mention something obliquely to put a doubt in their mind.

Here’s a marketing tip: People are interested in themselves and what they want. Clubbing them over the head with your ideas won’t work. Describe to them the benefits to them of tradtional Catholicism

In the end, the straight, **simple truth based on your own experience of what the Church has done for you works well. Personal testimony. **

**You can say your beliefs are based on 2000 years of the works and writings of saints and Christ Himself, whereas a rational relativist only has his opinions. **

Reminding people that they will one day die is also good. Cuts out a lot of guff. No one can gainsay that fact.

Then it follows: “What do you think is going to happen to you after the death of your body?”

Then conversion may begin.

PS: A good point about ignorance, there. I’d forgotten about that. Also, even St. Padre Pio had trouble with one or two of his relatives. Wish them well in your heart. Avoid hard feelings. Leave the door open and get on with your life. Keep up communication; don’t shut them out. These things work out.

I’d personally start worrying if my life was very easy; God might, in that case, might be giving me my reward now, instead of in Heaven. My opinion: Impious people suffer ordinary misery caused by their sinning; pious people suffer trials sent by God to purify them. The latter are tinged with sweetness.

 

[giuseppeTO]

In my opinion modernist notions of Jesus being easy-going have been carried too far. They’re dangerous. The caricature I have in my mind is of the Mafioso with a crucifix tattoo; he thinks if he repents on his deathbed he’ll still be OK. Which it would be. If he got the chance./QUOTE]

No it wouldn’t. God will not be fooled or mocked.

 

[Layman]

That’s interesting. I thought sincere repentance would save you. 'Though if you were counting on sinning up to the last minute and getting in ‘under the wire’ I wonder how sincere you’d seem.

What’s the official doctrine, if anyone knows? Briefly, please.

 

[Timothysis]

And I really don’t care what liberals (you) believe!

Well, isn’t that special. Tell me; how did they ever miss electing such a good Catholic as yourself pope?!?!?

 

[Like]

Well, isn’t that special. Tell me; how did they ever miss electing such a good Catholic as yourself pope?!?!?

 

[distracted]

In the end, the straight, **simple truth based on your own experience of what the Church has done for you works well. Personal testimony. **

well, i’ve tried that… not sure it works with some people… but probably nothing will work with certain people… at least nothing I could come up with… (which is where prayer comes in… but prayer comes in first, last & always)…

PS: A good point about ignorance, there. I’d forgotten about that.

hmm… i could never forget becasue when i was young … well, need i say more? I was about as ignorant as any young person who hasn’t been catechized… No, actually, i think i was more so … I was very naive & got involved with wrong pepole, made some terrible mistakes that i will pay for for the res of my life… and possibly beyond… (although i do a lot of Purgatory here on Earth…thanks to the Catholic faith) … I do believe that if ignornace is the only thing causing a person to stumble, God will intervene… He certainly did in my life… in what i call a miraculous way… (long story). When a person knows s/he is doing wrong & does it anyway… well, as the Word says: “God’s spirit will not always strive with man…”

Impious people suffer ordinary misery caused by their sinning; pious people suffer trials sent by God to purify them. The latter are tinged with sweetness.

So, so true… I’ve had this revealed to me over and over… The rosary, which made me a devout Christian… helps a lot to show me spiritual truths like this…