Hell

[englishredrose]

I will start by saying I am throughly confused on what is being posted on these boards about going to Hell and I am not asking to stir things up but asking for a genuine discussion on what Roman Catholics really believe in etc

It sounds like what you have been saying is that you can go to Hell and you can go to Hell for skipping services along with any other sin.

Do you think it is right and fair that you are being taught, (taught it the wrong word and I hope we can get passed the samatic arguments here) That if you don’t do xyz then you will go to Hell. The latest one on the previouse thread even goes as far to suggest you can go to Hell for skipping services without reason. Is that what you are really taught?

Recently the currrent priest has taught me how to be in church and cope with the service when really don’t want to be there but thats after 25 years being there and what he said was simplistic enough, just made it very human. But there was no suggestion of Hell whatsoever but there again before you point it out, I am Anglican. But it does concern me that you all seem to really do believe you could end up in Hell if you don’t do what you have been taught to do by the church? Isn’t that kind of like a brain washing cult thing?

Like I say, I am not asking to stir up trouble. Just trying to work out what is really going on here.

 

[Samuel63]

Here it is. God provided revelation to us, to teach us how to live and get to heaven. We can accept this revelation and follow it or reject it. It is our totally free choice. Our actions during life will be the evidence whether we chose to accept or reject God. God then has the right to bring us into heaven, or a side trip into purgatory, or condemn us to hell. Either path, heaven or hell, is for eternity (infinity of time). Our life here on earth is rather short by comparison. Logic dictates we should spend our little time here, to gain a good end for an eternal of time.

What choice will you make?

 

[Anniejoe]

Hi englishredrose,

Yes, we believe that deliberate disobedience of God’s will for us is a choice for an eternity away from Him. It’s our choice to make. He does not wish it so, but He gives us free will to choose to trust Him (and act upon that trust through obedience) or to reject Him. If someone insists upon rejecting God and His plan, what alternative is there? How can someone who chooses to reject God spend an eternity with Him? It makes no sense.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

We’re not obligated to attend “services”. We’re obligated to attend Mass. Deliberately missing Mass on Sunday is a mortal sin provided all three conditions are met. If a person die with one unconfessed mortal sin on their soul, we put ourselves in serious serious risk of putting ourselves in Hell. We shouldn’t go to Mass out of fear of going to Hell, but out of our love for God and the desire to give him proper worship in the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (Not one of those Liturgy of the Word with Communion services when there’s another Mass within a reasonable distance."

 

[Dorothy]

Something is awry when a person decides to roll over and fall asleep again (although he/she is healthy and strong) when he professes to understand what the Mass is all about and the tremendous importance of Our Lord Jesus Christ made present on the altar by the priest, and then coming to us in the Eucharist.

Something may very well have been wrong in that person’s thinking even before that day he/she decided to go back to sleep because it felt better in that warm bed than being before the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords at Holy Mass with the community.

 

[saveusfromhell]

I will start by saying I am throughly confused on what is being posted on these boards about going to Hell and I am not asking to stir things up but asking for a genuine discussion on what Roman Catholics really believe in etc

It sounds like what you have been saying is that you can go to Hell and you can go to Hell for skipping services along with any other sin.

Do you think it is right and fair that you are being taught, (taught it the wrong word and I hope we can get passed the samatic arguments here) That if you don’t do xyz then you will go to Hell. The latest one on the previouse thread even goes as far to suggest you can go to Hell for skipping services without reason. Is that what you are really taught?

Recently the currrent priest has taught me how to be in church and cope with the service when really don’t want to be there but thats after 25 years being there and what he said was simplistic enough, just made it very human. But there was no suggestion of Hell whatsoever but there again before you point it out, I am Anglican. But it does concern me that you all seem to really do believe you could end up in Hell if you don’t do what you have been taught to do by the church? Isn’t that kind of like a brain washing cult thing?

Like I say, I am not asking to stir up trouble. Just trying to work out what is really going on here.

it might help if you first realised you believe in what you do because a king wanted to divorce his wife because he had no son and changed the religion of a country to do it
now that’s a cult

 

[mark_a]

I will start by saying I am throughly confused on what is being posted on these boards about going to Hell and I am not asking to stir things up but asking for a genuine discussion on what Roman Catholics really believe in etc

It sounds like what you have been saying is that you can go to Hell and you can go to Hell for skipping services along with any other sin.

Do you think it is right and fair that you are being taught, (taught it the wrong word and I hope we can get passed the samatic arguments here) That if you don’t do xyz then you will go to Hell. The latest one on the previouse thread even goes as far to suggest you can go to Hell for skipping services without reason. Is that what you are really taught?

Recently the currrent priest has taught me how to be in church and cope with the service when really don’t want to be there but thats after 25 years being there and what he said was simplistic enough, just made it very human. But there was no suggestion of Hell whatsoever but there again before you point it out, I am Anglican. But it does concern me that you all seem to really do believe you could end up in Hell if you don’t do what you have been taught to do by the church? Isn’t that kind of like a brain washing cult thing?

Like I say, I am not asking to stir up trouble. Just trying to work out what is really going on here.

What you are suggesting here is a far cry from what the CCC has to say about how one chooses hell.

 

[Ettaben]

As a catholic,I believe in the teachings of the church,which includes attending masses and keeping days of obligations holy as the church teaches going contrary to that without reason is sinful and disobedience,expect if confessed and atoned,one is still under sin and punishable by the just judge(God)

 

[Allegra]

It’s not that any single action or inaction is going to cause someone to go to hell. These actions, however, are evidence of the state of one’s soul. If everyone truely believed what the Church teaches, that the Eucharist is the real presense of Christ and that Christ left us the Church with the authority to guide the faithful to eternal life with him, there would be no issue. People would spend Saturday night unable to sleep, bouncing up and down like children who know they are going to Six Flags the next day. Unfortunately, we live in a fallen world and everyone has to deal with doubt, fear, distractions, pride, self-deception, fatigue and other obsticals that the enemy put in our path to God. So, everyone has some point in their life where they go to Mass even though they feel at that moment that they’d rather do something else. (Like sleep) Most the time, once you get there, you remember you are in the presence of God and you realize that you are glad you came, even if you didn’t feel like it at first. So, whether or not missing some obligation condemns a person to hell depends on alot of variables because in order to commit a mortal sin, you have to have full knowledge that it was a mortal sin and in order to be sent to hell for such a sin, you have to be unrepentant and willing to disregard God entirely in favor of your own desires.

 

[JRKH]

Dear Child of God,
If you wish to learn the the Church truly teaches on hell, then the answer(s) will be found in the Catechism. This should be your starting point in seeking to discover what the Church “teaches”.

As to the matter of things expressed by people in conversation there are two factors plus one that can complicate things.
First is the understandings of the person asking a question, second is the understandings of the person attempting to answer and that “plus one” is the ability of the two to communicate clearly and effectively between them.
Here at CAF, there is one additional aspect to add…That is the “lurker”. And of course there are sometimes “lurkers” in other, face to face, conversations as well. These are third parties who are “listening in” but not taking an active part in the conversation.

But it is Why these conversations take place that is the real “muddler”.
Consider…If the teaching is simple, clear, and clearly understood, then there is no problem and no reason for confusing conversation. However, when the teaching is more complicated and not clearly understood THEN we begin having conversation trying to explain, enlighten and learn.

More often than not, and taking your basic OP premise about what sends a person to hell, these conversations will take the form of analogy or “what if…” and then proceeds from there. Jesus used this technique often when he would begin a lesson with, “there was a certain…” or “the kingdom of heaven is like…”, and we naturally use this technique too.
BUT - no analogy is perfect plus, in conversations I have been involved with, the "what-if’s are likely to change as the conversation moves on. This is generally not a problem early on in a conversation but can become more confusing the further it goes and the more people become involved…

All of this is basically to say that, The Church presents a pretty clear teaching on what constitutes mortal sin and what one can expect if they commit a mortal sin.
We aren’t always the greatest at understanding it, or communicating it.

For myself - I boil it all down to Mt 22:36-40. Since Jesus said this is the Root of the Law and the Prophets…It seems this is the best thing to measure all else against.

Peace
James

 

[Hail_Linus]

This is my take on this issue…

If one believes in the substantial presence of the Lord in the Eucharist then to not attend Mass is like rejecting God for something else,i.e. I love to watch football more than I love to receive God in the Holy Eucharist.

That said…the more you know the more is expected of you. If one does not understand the Eucharist then one is less culpable.

God is the final judge. Salvation in Catholicism is not based on a check list. We are expected to follow the two Great Commandments. This teaching goes toward loving God with all your heart, etc. If one does not love God with all his heart he might find himself in an unpleasant situation. However, this is not God’s punishment. Going to hell would be the consequence of rejecting God. In other words, one sends himself to hell.

 

[englishredrose]

having read and re read the posts for the week

My next question then

how come there is so much worry and concern about confession?

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

having read and re read the posts for the week

My next question then

how come there is so much worry and concern about confession?

Hi, englishredrose, and welcome to the forums! :angel1:

I’m a Catholic Convert from the Episcopal church, so perhaps my insight will help. I’ve been a Catholic now since 2004, converting after a year of RCIA. We were not taught to worry over The Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation so much as we were to welcome Christ’s loving, Divine Mercy within the process.

Perhaps you have seen discussions on this forum where others talk of over-worrying or concerns about giving a “good” confession. What I feel before availing myself of the gift of this Sacrament is simply* gratitude.* God knows our hearts, and knows that we need to be accountable to God when we know we have failed.

In His Divine love, Christ gave us Holy Mother Church. In handing the keys of the Kingdom to St. Peter and those who followed him as Vicars of Christ, Our Lord Christ said “Whatsoever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven. Whatsoever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven.” The Priest to whom we confess is there to listen compassionately and show us Christ’s forgiveness.

So, I would simply say that in childlike faith, I rush towards the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation, knowing it’s something our Heavenly Father has provided for us. The Mass, the Real Presence, the Communion of the Saints, Our Blessed Mary, ever Virgin, all the Rites of the Church, all are there for purification and edification, to lead us closer to God. :nun1:

As to having concerns about giving a “good confession,” I always say to the priest that if I have forgotten or if I am unaware of any of my sins or faults, if there is anything I have missed, to please let the Holy Spirit communicate these to me. I therefore rush to confession with an adult understanding of the Sacrament, but with a child- like faith in the Loving Father whose Church gave us all the historic traditions we Catholics follow. When thinking of any Sacrament or tradition, I remind myself of the Parable of the Prodigal Son. There is more to learn about our Heavenly Father in that Parable than we may realize. See how the Father rushes toward the penitent son who feels deep unworthiness. See how the Father assures both the “good” son and the “bad” son that He loves them. See where He points both children, toward the door of Heavenly celebration! Yes, we must repent and realize our sins. The joy is in realizing that our Heavenly father is ever ready to embrace us and lead us to Paradise! :heaven:

Blessings on your day, englishred rose, :grouphug:and I hope you continue to ask questions in the forum.
Kathryn Ann:harp:

 

[JRKH]

having read and re read the posts for the week

My next question then

how come there is so much worry and concern about confession?

Worry and concern??? I’d say that it is pretty much a personal thing…Mostly, confession needs to be about balance.
Worry too much and you wind up Scrupulous and in danger of despair. Worry too little and the danger becomes a sin of presumption.
Then there is an aspect of confession that, sadly, the Church seems to have not done a great job of promoting…Advice. Too many see confession as “enter - recite - absolve - exit” and repeat. Truth is that confession can be a great opportunity to clarify things and gain insight. Not in depth of course, but certainly something worth taking away and working on.

Confession is a great conduit for grace.

Peace
James

 

[grandfather]

having read and re read the posts for the week

My next question then

how come there is so much worry and concern about confession?

Rose,

On hell and confession:

The existance of hell is revealed. Jesus clearly talks about it in a number of places in the gospels. He says to the pharisees that He came to forgive sins, but they say they have no sin so He can not help them. When He tells them, verily, I am telling you that you are going to die in your sins. He is telling them they are going to hell. It is a terrifying thing to read. He says the way to eternal life is narrow and few take it, but the way to eternal loss is broad and wide and many go that way. That is also not so pleasant a thought.

So what He seems to be telling us all is that there is a hell, if you die in your sins you are in big trouble, it is easy to go there and many people do. The pharisees were very religious people.
Their religion was the center of their life. They studied their religion all the time and could quote scripture in their sleep. Yet Jesus told them He knew they were going to die in their sins and be lost.

He said to His followers, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees you are not going to make it, inherit the kingdom of God.

He tells his apostles that they are to go into all the nations of world and preach the gospel of repentance for forgiveness of sins. He gives them the power to forgive sins according to the Bible. He told them whose sins they forgive would be forgiven, and whose they held bound would be held bound. This seems very clear, very plain, the way or means Jesus revealed for sins to be absolved.

He did not give this power of binding and loosing to anyone else that we know of, at least in the accounts we have. That means He did not give you the power to forgive your own sins, or me the power to forgive mine or yours. Only God can forgive sins and He came here and delegated those He ordained to act in His name and forgive sins. This is what is in the Bible.

The ancient Church claimed the authority of the apostles was passed on to others and we see in the Bible where the apostles picked someone to replace Judas. History, not theology tells us the Church did this from one generation to the next, ordained a succession of men who acted in and with the authority Jesus gave the apostles, not only to forgive sins, but to teach in His name. Jesus guarantees their teaching according to scripture, until the end of time. It is quite simply stated, all right in the Bible. Centuries, many generations, after His time on earth the successors of the first apostles decided what books would be in the Bible, for example.

If you want to know for sure if your sins are forgiven you need to hear from someone with the authority to forgive sins that your sins are forgiven. The only way His ministers could know what sins of yours they are forgiving is if you tell them what they are. You can be sure, 100% sure you are forgiven if someone with the God given authority to bind and loose sins, looses yours.

People may not agree with this or believe it, but it is what the Catholic Church teaches and the doctrine surely is there to be plainly found in the Bible.

As a side note, a young friend of mine is in her late 20s and is becoming a Catholic. She will be fully received into the Church this Sunday, as a member of the Ukranian Greek Catholic Church. Last Sunday she made her first confession. I happened to be there when she walked out of the confessional. She glowed. Her smile and eyes were luminous. I know and countless other Catholics know what she was experiencing inside. I hope you might someday also know it.

Since you seem interested in what Catholics believe or think, for some reason, maybe it might be interesting for you to start a thread or ask other Catholics what their experience of confession is like. I’ll bet you will hear some very amazing stories.

 

[graciew]

Englishrose, as a cradle Catholic I believe in Hell and go to Confession.But worry about it,no.Which does not mean I do not care.Spending the day spinning around myself and my sins alone would be seen as narcissistic and ultimately egocentric in my culture.Service and caring for others keeps us busy,not my own Salvation.I do not know if it is right or wrong,but I trust in Jesus and do my best.

 

[clmowry]

We are taught that if you die in a state of mortal sin you will go to hell.

Jesus summed up man’s duties toward God in this saying: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.”

One of the precepts established by His Church as a minimal expression of that love: “The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.”

It seems to be rather well correlated with: “Remember the sabbath day—keep it holy.- Six days you may labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God. You shall not do any work, either you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your work animal, or the resident alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested That is why the LORD has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.”

God seems to take this stuff pretty seriously. So does His church.

Chuck

I will start by saying I am throughly confused on what is being posted on these boards about going to Hell and I am not asking to stir things up but asking for a genuine discussion on what Roman Catholics really believe in etc

It sounds like what you have been saying is that you can go to Hell and you can go to Hell for skipping services along with any other sin.

Do you think it is right and fair that you are being taught, (taught it the wrong word and I hope we can get passed the samatic arguments here) That if you don’t do xyz then you will go to Hell. The latest one on the previouse thread even goes as far to suggest you can go to Hell for skipping services without reason. Is that what you are really taught?

Recently the currrent priest has taught me how to be in church and cope with the service when really don’t want to be there but thats after 25 years being there and what he said was simplistic enough, just made it very human. But there was no suggestion of Hell whatsoever but there again before you point it out, I am Anglican. But it does concern me that you all seem to really do believe you could end up in Hell if you don’t do what you have been taught to do by the church? Isn’t that kind of like a brain washing cult thing?

Like I say, I am not asking to stir up trouble. Just trying to work out what is really going on here.

 

[grandfather]

Again, in several places in the gospels Jesus clearly teaches about hell. He teaches in analogies, or parables, or likenesses. He says the kingdom of heaven is like unto a housewife who lost a coin, a farmer who sowed seeds.

He says that the coming of the kingdom is like fishermen who cast a wide net into the sea and it drew up many different kinds of fish. The fish are taken out of the net by the fishermen and the good are separated from the bad. The bad are discarded.

He says the kingdom is like a farmer who sows a field of wheat and at night an enemy comes and sows weeds in the field. The laborers ask if they should pull out the weeds. The farmer says no, they might pull up some good wheat that would be lost. Let the weeds and wheat grow together until harvest. Then go out and pull up the weeds and cast them into the fire to be burned.

He talks about sheep and goats being separated and the sheep being blessed of His Father with the goats being sent away.

In all of this teaching He says when this judgement happens and the damned are cast into outer darkness (God being light) there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Many modern feel good clergymen have ignored the things Jesus said and tried to abolish hell. They refuse to mention it. Those who remember Jesus’s teaching are seen as old fashioned or fearful of the boogeyman.

Jesus also says we should not be afraid of the one who can kill our bodies, but need to watch out for the one who can kill our soul.

This is not a gray area. It is clear and present throughout the gospels.