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laylow
Guest
I am Catholic, I want to talk about Hell. I have so many things I want to bring up, but I would rather have people bring up their views and then I will discuss those…
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laylow
Guest
OK, I guess I haven’t piqued anyone’s interest. I would truly like to know if anyone (especially Catholics) believes in Hell in the way it is taught? I mean, let’s think about this. If anyone has experienced chronic pain, chronic illness, chronic insomnia, etc, they will truly understand how bad it really is. It pushes you to the brink, you just want it to stop. Imagining that being external is unfathomable. If you truly believed that, you would spend every second in paralyzing fear. It is especially bad when it is somewhat taught that the way is narrow and also the gate. So that would seem to indicate that few would make it.
I would argue that anyone who lives a remotely comfortable life would be out, no many how many “deeds” they do.
Thoughts? Let’s get the discussion going.
I would argue that anyone who lives a remotely comfortable life would be out, no many how many “deeds” they do.
Thoughts? Let’s get the discussion going.
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Crusaderbear
Guest
What is the worse you can imagine having to endure…multiply by ten thousand…you still fall short. I would rather ensure I am doing my best to prepare for heaven than worry about how bad hell will be!
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friardchips
Guest
I am eating this virtual popcorn only because it looks so nice.
Yes, Hell exists, and I believe that souls are there, and too, that Satan and the fallen angels are there, and that souls are tormented when there, and I believe they become totally full of rage and fury, and that there could be divisions in Hell but am not clear as to whether these exist only as steps in Purgatory through Hell or whether this happens in Hell as a place of no end. I see no point in divisions in Hell unless experiencing it as Purgatory because souls in Hell that are there forever cannot escape so why any reason for variety.
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pianistclare
Guest
Yes I do believe it, the “way it’s taught”.
I can’t pick and choose among what I like and what I don’t want to hear.
Many theologians have spoken on it. Saints have spoken on it.
It’s in the Bible.
Not sure what there is to debate, although I know FOR SURE I don’t want any first hand knowledge of it.
Eternal torment.
Separation from God forever.
Pretty bad.
I can’t pick and choose among what I like and what I don’t want to hear.
Many theologians have spoken on it. Saints have spoken on it.
It’s in the Bible.
Not sure what there is to debate, although I know FOR SURE I don’t want any first hand knowledge of it.
Eternal torment.
Separation from God forever.
Pretty bad.
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laylow
Guest
You would never leave the church, maybe for a few bites to eat. It just doesn’t make any sense. God would have to be be the most sadistic, cruel dictator you ever heard of, when the Bible clearly paints a different picture. Also, Hell is never mentioned in the Bible. Only Hades, Gehenna, etc, when looked in their context, do not seem to be what Jesus was referring to.
I’m not saying I do not believe in Hell, I think Hell is death. You cease to exist.
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laylow
Guest
Eternal comes from the word Aión, which actually means “Age” or “Eon.” Catholic history never taught of eternal torment until St. Augustine, who pretty much influenced most of our modern teachings. St Thomas Aquinas continued the tradition and may this comment, “The blessed in the heavenly kingdom will see the torment of the damned so that they may even more thoroughly enjoy their blessedness.”
He must have already been counting himself in, which is questionable and with that statement, that doesn’t seem very “saintly.”
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laylow
Guest
Where is it in the Bible?
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tawny
Guest
Hell - the absence of forever resting in God’s embrace. Not the way I want to spend eternity.
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laylow
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No one does! But where is this in scripture. Eternal is the improper translation.
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GEddie
Guest
Is it? How should it have been translated?
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GEddie
Guest
For the sake of those who will go there, I hope Hell really is in Michigan!!!
ICXC NIKA
ICXC NIKA
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pianistclare
Guest
Go to your concordance and look up “gehenna”
Gehenna
Gehenna is an English transliteration of the Greek word γέεννα, which in turn is from the Hebrew word gê’ hinnom, literally the valley of Hinnom.
John F. Walvoord writes,
"All the references to gehenna, except James 3:6, are from the lips of Christ himself, and there is an obvious emphasis on the punishment for the wicked after death as being everlasting. The term gehenna is derived from the Valley of Hinnom, traditionally considered by the Jews the place of the final punishment of the ungodly. Located just south of Jerusalem, it is referred to in Joshua 15:8 and 18:16, where this valley was considered a boundary between the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. In this place human sacrifices were offered to Molech; these altars were destroyed by Josiah (2 Kings 23:10). The valley was later declared to be ‘the valley of slaughter’ by Jeremiah (Jer. 7:30-33). The valley was used as a burial place for criminals and for burning garbage. Whatever its historical and geographic meaning, its usage in the New Testament is clearly a reference to the everlasting state of the wicked, and this seems to be the thought in every instance. In James 3:6 the damage accomplished by an uncontrolled tongue is compared to a fire which ‘corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.’ “Christ warned that a person who declares others a fool ‘will be in danger of the fire of hell’ (Matt. 5:22). In Matthew 5:29 Christ states that it is better to lose an eye than to be thrown into gehenna, with a similar thought regarding it being better to lose a hand than to go into gehenna (Matt. 5:30). In Matthew 10:28 believers in Christ are told not to be afraid of those who kill the body, but rather to ‘fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell’ (KJV). A similar thought is mentioned in Matthew 18:9, where it is declared better ‘to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.’ In Matthew 23:15 Christ denounces the Pharisees who ‘travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.’ In Matthew 23:33 he denounces the Pharisees and the scribes, asking the question, ‘How will you escape being condemned to hell?’ In Mark 9:43, 45, 47, the thought recorded in Matthew about it being better to lose part of the body than to be cast into hell is repeated (cf. Matt. 5:22, 29, 30). Luke 12:5 contains a similar thought to that expressed in Matthew 10:28, that one should fear the devil far more than those who might kill them physically. Though not always expressly stated, the implication is that the punishment will have duration and be endless.” John F. Walvoord in Four Views on Hell, p. 20
William Crockett writes,
"In the New Testament the final destination of the wicked is pictured as a place of blazing sulfur, where the burning smoke ascends forever. This would have been an effective image because sulfur fires were part of life for those who lived in the Jerusalem of Bible times. Southwest of the city was the Valley of Hinnom, an area that had a long history of desecration. The steep gorge was once used to burn children in sacrifice to the Ammonite god Molech (2 Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35). Jeremiah denounced such practices by saying that Hinnom Valley would become the valley of God’s judgment, a place of slaughter (Jer. 7:32; 19:5-7). As the years passed, a sense of foreboding hung over the valley. People began to burn their garbage and offal there, using sulfur, the flammable substance we now use in matches and gunpowder. Eventually, the Hebrew name ge-hinnom (canyon of Hinnom) evolved into geenna (gehenna), the familiar Greek word for hell (Matt. 5:22, 29; 10:28; 18:9; 23:33; Mark 9:43, 45; Luke 12:5). Thus when the Jews talked about punishment in the next life, what better image could they use than the smoldering valley they called gehenna? “In the intertestamental period, gehenna was widely used as a metaphor for hell, the place of eternal damnation. Later, in rabbinic literature, we find gehenna given a location—in the depths of the earth, and sometimes in Africa beyond the Mountains of Darkness. Some Jews, of course, took the fiery images literally, supposing that Hinnom Valley itself would become the place of hellfire and judgment (1 Enoch 27:1-2; 54:1-6; 56:3-4; 90:26-28; 4 Ezra 7:36). But this view was minor and not widely held in Judaism. The New Testament also rejects this view, saying that gehenna is already in some sense prepared elsewhere (Matt. 25:41), just as heaven is (Matt. 25:34; John 14:2; Heb. 11:16).” William Crockett in Four Views on Hell, p. 58
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PraiseChrist
Guest
[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. [46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
drbo.org/chapter/47025.htm
With all due respect, you don’t have to be a believer or look far into the Bible to find Christ speaking about hell
drbo.org/chapter/47025.htm
With all due respect, you don’t have to be a believer or look far into the Bible to find Christ speaking about hell
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laylow
Guest
I am not asking anyone to change their opinion, I would never do that. However, please consider reading this series, starting here: brazenchurch.com/how-hell-invaded-church-doctrine/
It is interesting how Hell is only mentioned 11 times in the Bible. You would think something as important as eternal torment would be talked about a bit more.
Jesus spoke of Gehenna as a specific place on earth. He seemed to be telling them what would happen if they sinned, they would die.
Although consider this verse: For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment (2 Peter 2:4) It says the angels would go to hell UNTIL judgement. That doesn’t seem to point to eternal.
If you are thrown in the fire, you would die, most likely, hence the 2nd death.
We definitely should not take it for granted, but God’s mercury is unfathomable. He may make us suffer to earn our way, but I think he is very just. It seems unlikely he would subject his imperfect creation to suffer infinitely for finite sins. But obviously, we should not count on this if we can avoid it.
It is interesting how Hell is only mentioned 11 times in the Bible. You would think something as important as eternal torment would be talked about a bit more.
Jesus spoke of Gehenna as a specific place on earth. He seemed to be telling them what would happen if they sinned, they would die.
Although consider this verse: For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment (2 Peter 2:4) It says the angels would go to hell UNTIL judgement. That doesn’t seem to point to eternal.
If you are thrown in the fire, you would die, most likely, hence the 2nd death.
We definitely should not take it for granted, but God’s mercury is unfathomable. He may make us suffer to earn our way, but I think he is very just. It seems unlikely he would subject his imperfect creation to suffer infinitely for finite sins. But obviously, we should not count on this if we can avoid it.
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laylow
Guest
brazenchurch.com/hell-2-lake-of-fire-lazarus-gnashing-eternal-torment/
Some very good points in this.
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laylow
Guest
Why did the Catholic church change their stance after the first 5 centuries after Christ died for our sins?
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laylow
Guest
Eternal comes from the word Aión, which actually means “Age” or “Eon.”
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laylow
Guest
It’s possible!For the sake of those who will go there, I hope Hell really is in Michigan!!!
ICXC NIKA
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friardchips
Guest
forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=26878691
*'1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he **"will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”*614’
*'1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he **"will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”*614’
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