Hello and question about Mass last night

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Hi, this is my first post and I think this is the right place for my question. A little backround first before I post my question…my husband (a lifelong Mormon) and I are in RCIA and will be joining the Church in the spring with all of our children. Yay! Now my question…at Mass last night, I was very surprised to see a lay person (woman) standing side by side with the priest and placing communion on people’s tongues. Is this a common thing? Is it allowed for a woman to be doing that?

There was another priest there (the actual priest of this parish-the celebrant was a retired priest that fills in) but he wasn’t wearing vestments and was standing in the Narthex most of the service.

Please forgive any mistakes I might have made with terminology…still learning!

Thank you!

Andrea
 
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AWall:
Hi, this is my first post and I think this is the right place for my question. A little backround first before I post my question…my husband (a lifelong Mormon) and I are in RCIA and will be joining the Church in the spring with all of our children. Yay! Now my question…at Mass last night, I was very surprised to see a lay person (woman) standing side by side with the priest and placing communion on people’s tongues. Is this a common thing? Is it allowed for a woman to be doing that?

There was another priest there (the actual priest of this parish-the celebrant was a retired priest that fills in) but he wasn’t wearing vestments and was standing in the Narthex most of the service.

Please forgive any mistakes I might have made with terminology…still learning!

Thank you!

Andrea
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When a great number of communicants causes a necessity for further ministers to distribute the sacrament, lay people deputed by the priest may assist him. However, they may never do so in place of an ordained minister (meaning that there should not have been any lay person distributing communion while a priest stood by and watched).
 
Welcome Home 😃 !

Hope you enjoy the forums 👍 . I know I do 😃
 
Andreas Hofer:
When a great number of communicants causes a necessity for further ministers to distribute the sacrament, lay people deputed by the priest may assist him. However, they may never do so in place of an ordained minister (meaning that there should not have been any lay person distributing communion while a priest stood by and watched).
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Since the Pastor had arranged a retired Priest to do the Mass, he may have had another commitment prior to or immediately subsequent such that he didn’t think he would be available (thus no vestments) and didn’t want to disrupt the arrangements he had made for an EMHC. Or maybe in his managerial role wanted to observe the Mass or even the EMHC in the performance of her duties. Or in once case where our Pastor didn’t say a single Mass all weekend and didn’t assist with the distribution of Communion. Instead, he waited in the entry/exit area to ask the people who leave immediately after communion to ask them “Where is it you have to be that you have to leave before Mass ended? Do you have a family emergency that I should be aware of?” Unless there is evidence of abuse of liturgical practice, I think it best to assume the Pastor had legitimate reasons for what you observed.

P.S. I’m not sure I know what a Narthex is but I assume it is a gathering place outside the main worship space which might be near the exit supporting my supposition that he might have been “catching” those who leave early. 🙂
 
I would be very hesitant to say there was an abuse in this Mass without more knowledge of the circumstances, but I do believe there is way too many EMHC used in a lot of parishs. I know my parish is going over board with them, when about 100 communicants using 6 ministers to distribute the Presious Body and 8 for His Blood.

Dear AWall, I love convertion stories & should you ever wish to tell your, I love to read it! May God Bless you and your family!
your bother in Christ,
Rich
 
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Orionthehunter:
Since the Pastor had arranged a retired Priest to do the Mass, he may have had another commitment prior to or immediately subsequent such that he didn’t think he would be available (thus no vestments) and didn’t want to disrupt the arrangements he had made for an EMHC. Or maybe in his managerial role wanted to observe the Mass or even the EMHC in the performance of her duties. Or in once case where our Pastor didn’t say a single Mass all weekend and didn’t assist with the distribution of Communion. Instead, he waited in the entry/exit area to ask the people who leave immediately after communion to ask them “Where is it you have to be that you have to leave before Mass ended? Do you have a family emergency that I should be aware of?” Unless there is evidence of abuse of liturgical practice, I think it best to assume the Pastor had legitimate reasons for what you observed.

P.S. I’m not sure I know what a Narthex is but I assume it is a gathering place outside the main worship space which might be near the exit supporting my supposition that he might have been “catching” those who leave early. 🙂
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While I recognize that your example contains a real pastoral need to confront those leaving early, this is not called for in the norms governing the use of extraordinary ministers. The priest cannot delegate his duty to distribute communion in order to do something else. I agree with you that there may be reasons not to disrupt the scheduled extraordinary ministers (especially if one is only visiting the parish), but I don’t know that these would be sufficiently weighty for the pastor himself to remain seated. I do concede, however, that one cannot know the reasons for an isolated occurence and should always extend the benefit of the doubt (another possibilit:, he could have been feeling very ill). But if it’s a repeated occurence it needs to be addressed.

Here are some relevant points concerning the use of EMHCs from the 1997 Instruction ON CERTAIN QUESTIONS REGARDING
THE COLLABORATION OF THE NON-ORDAINED
FAITHFUL IN THE SACRED MINISTRY OF PRIEST

"§ 2. Extraordinary ministers may distribute Holy Communion at eucharistic celebrations only when there are no ordained ministers present or when those ordained ministers present at a liturgical celebration are truly unable to distribute Holy Communion.(99) They may also exercise this function at eucharistic celebrations where there are particularly large numbers of the faithful and which would be excessively prolonged because of an insufficient number of ordained ministers to distribute Holy Communion. (100)

This function is supplementary and extraordinary (101) and must be exercised in accordance with the norm of law."

and, most telling for the American church, to be “avoided and eliminated” is

"the habitual use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion at Mass thus arbitrarily extending the concept of “a great number of the faithful”

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html
 
Andreas Hofer:
While I recognize that your example contains a real pastoral need to confront those leaving early, this is not called for in the norms governing the use of extraordinary ministers. The priest cannot delegate his duty to distribute communion in order to do something else.
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Just so I am clear, the Pastor did not say or participate in the Mass but instead had a visiting Priest say the Mass. I didn’t want to leave the impression that he left the altar to “snare” the early leavers.

Regarding the Priest sitting, as a parish that uses retired priests occassionally, some of them are obviously frail and after standing for the entire Liturgy of hte Eucharist need to sit down.
 
Thank you for the warm welcome and all the replies! I’ve learned something new! So an EMHC is someone that helps distribute the communion and can be male or female. I was under the mistaken impression that since Priests have to be male that anyone distributing the communion would be too. Oops!🙂 Thank you for the correct information.

Like: Since you asked for our conversion story…I will try to make it as short as possible! My mother was raised Cathoic but didn’t raise us that way. For some reason when I was about 10 she decided to be baptized in a Southern Baptist church, and had me baptized as well. I could not stand that church and stopped going about 14. (My father never went to church so I stayed home with him). There was no emphasis in our home on reading the bible or prayer so I really had no grasp of the Christian faith. That made me very easy pickings for the Mormon missionaries at age 23. (You mean…there is no Trinity? I never grasped the idea so that must be true! No original sin? Well since I don’t like that idea either that must be true! Gold plates…uh, if you say so!)

I became an active Mormon, met and married my returned missionary husband who was born and raised in the Church. We were not married in the temple as I was too new and had to wait a year to go there. Never did make it. After our 3rd son was born, and we were preparing to finally go, curiosity got the better of me and I thought I would try to find out from the internet what happens in the temple because they keep it so secret. (Oh, I mean sacred;) ). That led to finding out all the facts about Mormonism. After much struggle we decided to resign. My husband is now disowned and shunned by his family.

(I’m really trying to be brief!) Leaving Mormonism led us on a search for exactly what we believe. We began reading a lot. We began watching EWTN. Constantly. That network was instrumental in leading us to the truth and beauty of Catholicism. We watched Mass every day. We started saying the rosary. We observed the Lenten fasts, I went to Adoration…finally we realized, Hey! We are Catholic in our hearts, our lives…let’s make it official. So we started RCIA this fall. My husband’s family have washed their hands of us and think we are destined for outer darkness and my parents think we’re a little nuts. But we just pray for them.

Of course had I just paid attention to a dream I had about age 22…There was a big beautiful mansion and the lights were on, and it was so light and bright and inviting…the people inside were my family and they were laughing and having a great time. A Catholic boy named Petey came to me and invited me in, but I turned and ran into a maze in the surrounding darkness. He chased me until I was tired and repeated his invitation. He led me out of the maze and up to the house. I brushed the dream off at the time, though I remember it clearly still. It took me a while to listen to Petey!

I’m sorry this is so long and I hope I didn’t bore you.

Thanks again for the welcome and the information!

Andrea
 
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Orionthehunter:
Just so I am clear, the Pastor did not say or participate in the Mass but instead had a visiting Priest say the Mass. I didn’t want to leave the impression that he left the altar to “snare” the early leavers.

Regarding the Priest sitting, as a parish that uses retired priests occassionally, some of them are obviously frail and after standing for the entire Liturgy of hte Eucharist need to sit down.
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Even if he is not celebrating the Mass in any capacity, he has a duty to distribute the Eucharist before recourse is made to an extraordinary minister. That’s just what the law says. I know he was making a real effort to reach out to those people, but he still can’t disregard (and I’m not saying he intentionally violated anything) the norms in order to facilitate that effort. A better option would have been to have respected laypersons (such as parish council members or Knights of Columbus) man the back while he performed his duty.

I do realize that some priests are frail; I tried to acknowledge that there are legitimate reasons for the priest to delegate his duty to another. I’m sorry if that didn’t come across.
 
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AWall:
Thank you for the warm welcome and all the replies! I’ve learned something new! So an EMHC is someone that helps distribute the communion and can be male or female. I was under the mistaken impression that since Priests have to be male that anyone distributing the communion would be too. Oops!🙂 Thank you for the correct information.

Like: Since you asked for our conversion story…I will try to make it as short as possible! My mother was raised Cathoic but didn’t raise us that way. For some reason when I was about 10 she decided to be baptized in a Southern Baptist church, and had me baptized as well. I could not stand that church and stopped going about 14. (My father never went to church so I stayed home with him). There was no emphasis in our home on reading the bible or prayer so I really had no grasp of the Christian faith. That made me very easy pickings for the Mormon missionaries at age 23. (You mean…there is no Trinity? I never grasped the idea so that must be true! No original sin? Well since I don’t like that idea either that must be true! Gold plates…uh, if you say so!)

I became an active Mormon, met and married my returned missionary husband who was born and raised in the Church. We were not married in the temple as I was too new and had to wait a year to go there. Never did make it. After our 3rd son was born, and we were preparing to finally go, curiosity got the better of me and I thought I would try to find out from the internet what happens in the temple because they keep it so secret. (Oh, I mean sacred;) ). That led to finding out all the facts about Mormonism. After much struggle we decided to resign. My husband is now disowned and shunned by his family.

(I’m really trying to be brief!) Leaving Mormonism led us on a search for exactly what we believe. We began reading a lot. We began watching EWTN. Constantly. That network was instrumental in leading us to the truth and beauty of Catholicism. We watched Mass every day. We started saying the rosary. We observed the Lenten fasts, I went to Adoration…finally we realized, Hey! We are Catholic in our hearts, our lives…let’s make it official. So we started RCIA this fall. My husband’s family have washed their hands of us and think we are destined for outer darkness and my parents think we’re a little nuts. But we just pray for them.

Of course had I just paid attention to a dream I had about age 22…There was a big beautiful mansion and the lights were on, and it was so light and bright and inviting…the people inside were my family and they were laughing and having a great time. A Catholic boy named Petey came to me and invited me in, but I turned and ran into a maze in the surrounding darkness. He chased me until I was tired and repeated his invitation. He led me out of the maze and up to the house. I brushed the dream off at the time, though I remember it clearly still. It took me a while to listen to Petey!

I’m sorry this is so long and I hope I didn’t bore you.

Thanks again for the welcome and the information!

Andrea
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That’s an amazing story, Andrea! Thank God you listened to his voice and responded to His grace! Welcome to the Catholic Church!
 
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AWall:
Thank you for the warm welcome and all the replies! I’ve learned something new! So an EMHC is someone that helps distribute the communion and can be male or female. I was under the mistaken impression that since Priests have to be male that anyone distributing the communion would be too. Oops!🙂 Thank you for the correct information.

Like: Since you asked for our conversion story…I will try to make it as short as possible! My mother was raised Cathoic but didn’t raise us that way. For some reason when I was about 10 she decided to be baptized in a Southern Baptist church, and had me baptized as well. I could not stand that church and stopped going about 14. (My father never went to church so I stayed home with him). There was no emphasis in our home on reading the bible or prayer so I really had no grasp of the Christian faith. That made me very easy pickings for the Mormon missionaries at age 23. (You mean…there is no Trinity? I never grasped the idea so that must be true! No original sin? Well since I don’t like that idea either that must be true! Gold plates…uh, if you say so!)

I became an active Mormon, met and married my returned missionary husband who was born and raised in the Church. We were not married in the temple as I was too new and had to wait a year to go there. Never did make it. After our 3rd son was born, and we were preparing to finally go, curiosity got the better of me and I thought I would try to find out from the internet what happens in the temple because they keep it so secret. (Oh, I mean sacred;) ). That led to finding out all the facts about Mormonism. After much struggle we decided to resign. My husband is now disowned and shunned by his family.

(I’m really trying to be brief!) Leaving Mormonism led us on a search for exactly what we believe. We began reading a lot. We began watching EWTN. Constantly. That network was instrumental in leading us to the truth and beauty of Catholicism. We watched Mass every day. We started saying the rosary. We observed the Lenten fasts, I went to Adoration…finally we realized, Hey! We are Catholic in our hearts, our lives…let’s make it official. So we started RCIA this fall. My husband’s family have washed their hands of us and think we are destined for outer darkness and my parents think we’re a little nuts. But we just pray for them.

Of course had I just paid attention to a dream I had about age 22…There was a big beautiful mansion and the lights were on, and it was so light and bright and inviting…the people inside were my family and they were laughing and having a great time. A Catholic boy named Petey came to me and invited me in, but I turned and ran into a maze in the surrounding darkness. He chased me until I was tired and repeated his invitation. He led me out of the maze and up to the house. I brushed the dream off at the time, though I remember it clearly still. It took me a while to listen to Petey!

I’m sorry this is so long and I hope I didn’t bore you.

Thanks again for the welcome and the information!

Andrea
Click to expand...
Dear AWall,
Thank you for this beautiful story! I never am bored with convertion stories and I appreciated your detail. My Island, as all the Hawaiian Islands, are heavily populated with Mormons. They really are good people and family oriented, just misguided 🙂 .
Thanks again & God Bless you and your family!
your brother in Christ
 
40.png
AWall:
Thank you for the warm welcome and all the replies! I’ve learned something new! So an EMHC is someone that helps distribute the communion and can be male or female. I was under the mistaken impression that since Priests have to be male that anyone distributing the communion would be too. Oops!🙂 Thank you for the correct information.

Like: Since you asked for our conversion story…I will try to make it as short as possible! My mother was raised Cathoic but didn’t raise us that way. For some reason when I was about 10 she decided to be baptized in a Southern Baptist church, and had me baptized as well. I could not stand that church and stopped going about 14. (My father never went to church so I stayed home with him). There was no emphasis in our home on reading the bible or prayer so I really had no grasp of the Christian faith. That made me very easy pickings for the Mormon missionaries at age 23. (You mean…there is no Trinity? I never grasped the idea so that must be true! No original sin? Well since I don’t like that idea either that must be true! Gold plates…uh, if you say so!)

I became an active Mormon, met and married my returned missionary husband who was born and raised in the Church. We were not married in the temple as I was too new and had to wait a year to go there. Never did make it. After our 3rd son was born, and we were preparing to finally go, curiosity got the better of me and I thought I would try to find out from the internet what happens in the temple because they keep it so secret. (Oh, I mean sacred;) ). That led to finding out all the facts about Mormonism. After much struggle we decided to resign. My husband is now disowned and shunned by his family.

(I’m really trying to be brief!) Leaving Mormonism led us on a search for exactly what we believe. We began reading a lot. We began watching EWTN. Constantly. That network was instrumental in leading us to the truth and beauty of Catholicism. We watched Mass every day. We started saying the rosary. We observed the Lenten fasts, I went to Adoration…finally we realized, Hey! We are Catholic in our hearts, our lives…let’s make it official. So we started RCIA this fall. My husband’s family have washed their hands of us and think we are destined for outer darkness and my parents think we’re a little nuts. But we just pray for them.

Of course had I just paid attention to a dream I had about age 22…There was a big beautiful mansion and the lights were on, and it was so light and bright and inviting…the people inside were my family and they were laughing and having a great time. A Catholic boy named Petey came to me and invited me in, but I turned and ran into a maze in the surrounding darkness. He chased me until I was tired and repeated his invitation. He led me out of the maze and up to the house. I brushed the dream off at the time, though I remember it clearly still. It took me a while to listen to Petey!

I’m sorry this is so long and I hope I didn’t bore you.

Thanks again for the welcome and the information!

Andrea
Click to expand...
Dear AWall,
Thank you for this beautiful story! I never am bored with convertion stories and I appreciated your detail. My Island, as all the Hawaiian Islands, are heavily populated with Mormons. They really are good people and family oriented, just misguided 🙂 .
Thanks again & God Bless you and your family!
your brother in Christ
 
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