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Deist314
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The Creator is hardly insignificant, after all it is the being responsible for creating the entire universe you an me included. And who said that the Creator doesn’t care about human affairs? The Creator could be obsessing about every single detail of its creation but has chosen to not actively interfere with it. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t care. As for right and wrong, it does. It tells us what is morally good and bad through our reason and conscience.
I would like to clearly state that in no way is Deism in anyway similar to Nihilism. The definition of Nihilism, given to us by our friend Merriam-Webster, is the belief that traditional morals, ideas, beliefs, etc have no value. This simply isn’t true. I am part of deistic community that respects and studies all religions on the planet. Just because we don’t accept them as Truth doesn’t mean we cannot learn from them and take wisdom from those that have come before. That is the basis of all human civilization, learning from those that came before us. Just because a religion says their morals are based on divine intervention doesn’t make them incompatible with morals of nature.
Additionally, your statement implies that without the intervention of God mankind would be nothing more than a bunch of barbarians with absolutely no moral compass what so ever.
- Who said that? If you came to this conclusion on your own I would like to see your reasoning behind it.
- So the only reason you care about your religion is because there is a goal at the end? What about the journey from point A to point B? What about making the world you live in right now a better place? And who knows, maybe there is eternal life but we simply don’t understand it yet. Deism is based on the continued journey to understand this grand creation called the Universe and right now we probably understand less than 3% of this place. That’s one of the reasons I was drawn to Deism! Its not afraid to say “We don’t know, but how about we find out together?”
I am quite sorry but I have no idea what you’re saying. If you have a question feel free to ask!
This is actually a fantastic question and once again I have to say it depends on the background of the deist in question. Deists who come from a more secular background (Atheists, Agnostics, etc.) tend not to while those who come from other faiths still enjoy this particular ritual .Raised in a Christian church I always enjoyed prayer as a form of meditation and a way to give thanks, a habit I continue doing now I am a deist. Granted, the form of the prayer has changed. I went from asking God for things to thanking God for things. When I pray I don’t ask God for forgiveness or to heal my family, I thank God for creating this universe and for making my family.
I am quite enjoying being able to discuss these things with you all! Please don’t stop!!!
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SteveVH
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Skeptic92
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I just want to raise an objection against the statement in bold. Would this not violate the Principle of Proportionate Causality? That is the cause has to be somewhat like the effect in that it has to have the power to produce the effect; so whilst we can not say what God is univocally, it certainly seems that analogous predication would be valid. This then would lead us down a Classical Theistic line, rather than a deistic.
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SteveVH
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And all this time I thought God was behind it.
Before creation there was God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Consciousness does not exist in a vacuum. I think you need to lay off of the New Age stuff.
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Catholic_farmer
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You did say ‘ask me anything’…
Favorite football team?
Do you believe in predestination? There were a lot of elitists among the early deists, so I must ask if there is any sort of feeling that some people are just not going to do well and are ‘lesser’ than others. How responsible do you feel towards helping the poor and do you think people can ‘change their fate’? Without free will, is it even possible to change your prospects in your religion?
Forgive me if someone already asked, but many of the FFs that were deists still belonged to various churches, such as Methodist, Episcopal, etc… Is deism a religion with pastors and churches, or a philosophical view?
(formerly “lutheran farmer”)
Favorite football team?
Do you believe in predestination? There were a lot of elitists among the early deists, so I must ask if there is any sort of feeling that some people are just not going to do well and are ‘lesser’ than others. How responsible do you feel towards helping the poor and do you think people can ‘change their fate’? Without free will, is it even possible to change your prospects in your religion?
Forgive me if someone already asked, but many of the FFs that were deists still belonged to various churches, such as Methodist, Episcopal, etc… Is deism a religion with pastors and churches, or a philosophical view?
(formerly “lutheran farmer”)
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gmx2014
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I have no questions for you, I’ve informed you. If you want to know and understand the origin of the universe, and the so-called creators, then you should know the most important piece of it: nothing (also called nothingness, pre-existence).
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gmx2014
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God is a word.
Before “creation” was exactly what I’ve already said. It’s called nothing, nothingness or pre-existence. Everybody knows the universe explodes into existence out of nothing. The vast majority of human beings have no understanding of what “nothing” is. They can’t comprehend what does exist, in the time and place of no physicality.
There isn’t anything “new age” about what I say. I speak absolute truth.
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Deist314
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I believe I already have responded to all your questions? I addressed my credentials in Post 9 as well as your second question! But I’ll go ahead and answer them again!
Post Nos. 5: I am a graduate of East Tennessee State University where I did a double major in History and Religious Studies with a minor in Psychology. The brunt of my coursework was focused on the Abrahamic Traditions but I have also studied Daoism, Confucianism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Ancient Sumerian religion, and Ancient Babylonian religion. I have recently been accepted to Stanford in the Masters of History program where I plan to continue my studies in Ancient Religions before going on to get my doctorate. Also, there were somethings that raised my hackles a little bit but I am sure they will arise in this thread as well! In fact I’ve already addressed a couple!
Post Nos. 9: In a word, yes. But that isn’t to say it does not have divine inspiration. Rather than requiring that the Creator reach down to man in order for us to understand the universe, Deists hold that we were created with the tools we need to understand and all we have to do is use them.
That is my fault lol I didn’t make myself clear in that statement. In the 4th statement I made I stated that “God is wholly incomprehensible to humans and it is futile to try and understand it due to the limitations of the human mind.” When perhaps a better wording would have been “God is incomprehensible as a whole to humans and it is futile to try and understand it as such do to the limitation of the human mind.” I hope that makes more sense? Deists don’t try to understand God directly but through understanding the Universe itself. Think of it as interpreting a piece of art, in the moment that it is fully understood we are given a small glimpse into the mind of the artist.
Quite a few questions rolled up in this one but I’ll do my best to answer them all! First off, I’m not a big football fans so I’m going to pretend you’re using the European version and go with Manchester United!
I personally do not believe in predestination. The way I view the universe is that it is a creation of unknowingly complex processes and that in such a creation that God created an option for everything. So I do not believe in predestination but that God knows all the options we might choose and has prepared accordingly.
Unfortunately, that mindset of elitism is still common in the modern deist but it is not the exclusive mindset. There are many deists, the most vocal of the normally, that believe that people that follow Revealed Religions are being duped and are stupid/ignorant/foolish for believing as they do. I personally do not feel this way because I see value in all religions even if I don’t agree with their tenets. So to answer you question, there are deists that think that way but I am not one of them.
My personal attitude to the poor and people in general can actually be summed up pretty nicely by your gospels. I am going to paraphrase here so please bear with me!!! I believe that in Matthew, Jesus says there is but one God and you are to love him with all your heart. Second to this is to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Even though I am not a follower of Christianity I see the wisdom in this teaching and try my hardest to apply it to my life everyday.
To answer the rest of your questions I would direct you to my first paragraph and I think that will answer all of those.
Deism is more a philosophical viewpoint than a typical religion. That being said, many deists enjoy being part of spiritual communities that tend to be all inclusive and focus more on changing this world than focusing on the next (if there is one). I am personally a member of a Unitarian Universalist church because I grew up in a Christian church and missed the fellowship that was a part of it. They may preach some things that I do not agree with but they are welcoming to all faiths and their end goal is to spread love and help make this world a better place.
I would like to give a blanket apology for any grammar or spelling mistakes in my posts! I am trying to answer them as best I can and often my mind moves quicker than my fingers
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Catholic_farmer
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Making something out of nothing? How does that work? What is the original ‘starter’? The spark? The beginning point? Those pesky Laws of Thermodynamics keep confounding me when I try to do that. A great argument for the existence of God is that there was never truly nothing. I’m not sure where you’re coming from on the nothing idea.
Thanks for answering my questions about Deism.
Thanks for answering my questions about Deism.
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Mark1124
Guest
How can a religion (if that term can be applied to Deism) which claims that God does not interfere with the world have its roots in a religion whose central claim is that God became man and died to save us from our sins?
Do all/most Deists believe that God absolutely never interferes in any way with the world He has created?
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Deist314
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I know it sounds contradictory but I promise its true! A better wording would probably have been modern deism (17 Century forward) has its roots in Christianity. Deism has been around since the time of the Ancient Greeks. Almost all of the earliest modern deists and those considered the most influential were originally Christian. During the Enlightenment these Christians had a hard time reconciling the difference between what the Catholic Church said was fact and what Science said was fact. In order to reconcile this difference they separated from the church and revived a declining school of thought. Since it is impossible for a person to completely disconnect themselves from the past, these founders of Deism carried over some of their past religions beliefs. The most common belief passed on is that of monotheistic view point of God. These people also brought with them certain beliefs about love and a persons involvement with the world.
Yes they do! There are some who believe that God has interfered in key points where a part in his machine has rusted or broken (to continue the metaphor for the Universe as a machine). But most reject this premise on the fact that the Universe was the direct creation of a perfect being and as such is perfect. Therefore, no part would rust or break. Some also believe that what we perceive as divine intervention may in fact just be a function of a law or rule of creation that we know nothing about. This is a slightly more popular though extremely difficult theory but one that is commonly rejected. The bulk of deists (myself included) take the stance that once God created the Universe it decided to stand back and not interfere.
And the term religion can most assuredly be applied to Deism just not in the way the western world thinks of the term!
meltzerboy
New member
Using the reason that G-d gave you and the rest of us, why do you suppose He would have created the universe and simultaneously chosen not to get involved? And do you believe G-d knows everything that has happened and will happen in the universe (is G-d omniscient and extra-temporal)?
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Catholic_farmer
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i spaced these to make it easy to answer. 
Do you believe in the Apostles Creed?
Do you have a creed?
Do you deny the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
How do you explain miracles during Jesus’ lifetime and those done by the Apostles after His resurrection and ascension?
How do you explain miracles performed since then?
How do you reconcile the words of the gospel where Jesus makes it clear He will be with us until the end of time and that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church?
Do you accept the bible as God’s word? I think you said you are a Unitarian Universalist, which i have read do not even use the bible, so I should ask if some Deists accept the bible as God’s word?
(formerly “lutheran farmer”)
Do you believe in the Apostles Creed?
Do you have a creed?
Do you deny the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
How do you explain miracles during Jesus’ lifetime and those done by the Apostles after His resurrection and ascension?
How do you explain miracles performed since then?
How do you reconcile the words of the gospel where Jesus makes it clear He will be with us until the end of time and that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church?
Do you accept the bible as God’s word? I think you said you are a Unitarian Universalist, which i have read do not even use the bible, so I should ask if some Deists accept the bible as God’s word?
(formerly “lutheran farmer”)
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Deist314
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Oh I have absolutely no idea why and really even couldn’t decide where to begin lol I view God as a transpersonal being so any attempt I could make to understand the Creator directly would inherently be doomed to failure. I hope one day I might have answer to that question but my understanding of the universe is way too low to even try to being to understand. Ask me again right before I die and I may be able to give your the beginning to an answer lol
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Per_Crucem
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Philosophically the problem with this is that the universe and its inhabitants are not manifestly perfect nor unbroken.
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Per_Crucem
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Except that you do profess to know enough about Him to know that He is a transpersonal Being and that you cannot understand. So you, at least, do not believe that concept is a failure.
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Deist314
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According to the understanding we have now. Whose to say that what we perceive to be imperfect or broken is merely a limitation on our understanding of the universe. What if the universe is perfect but because we do not fully understand it we cannot see it as such.
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Per_Crucem
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Aside from a subconscious understanding that things are not as they should be, if everything was “perfect,” then we would know that it is perfect because our understanding would not be limited by imperfection.
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Mark1124
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What scientific facts did they believe to be contradictory to the Catholic faith, and why did a scientific disagreement lead to such a substantial change in their beliefs about metaphysics?
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