Hello, need advice

[mercygate]

crono_vivi:

What about when they claim they are the “true” Catholics?

I think where you are coming from at this point, crono, their claim is something you should think of as their problem. They *are catholic. But they are not in communion with Rome. My question is always (given Mt. 16:18-19): If you have apostolic succession [do you know what that is, crono?], and Peter * is not in your house of bishops, you are missing the centerpiece!

 

[urquhart]

crono_vivi:

What about when they claim they are the “true” Catholics?

They are true Catholics! So are we. “The true Catholics” would only exist if the Churches were reunited - as Pope John Paul used to say, the two lungs of the Church should be breathing together. The separation is an abomination. It is due to human weakness only - it is not in accord with the will of God. Speaking for myself only, I would be willing to sacrifice the Catholic position on some of the things that keep us separated, if reunification would be furthered.

Thinking you might be happier if you were an Orthodox Christian? Attend some of their liturgies and check it out. But you wouldn’t be allowed to recieve communion, and if you wanted to convert, you would have to go through instruction, then be re-baptized and re-confirmed.

 

[crono_vivi]

What made them separate in the first place?

 

[Sherlock]

urquhart,

With all due respect, your information is misleading. Let me try to address a few:

You say that the Orthodox split, among other things, because of “changes the Catholics made to the Nicene Creed”. This is misleading because there’s really only item (the filioque) that is disputed, and most scholars will admit that this is really a question of semantics. It’s certainly no grounds on which to remain separate.

Nor is it proper to speak of “innovations”, unless you specify that these are not doctrinal (in which case, they ought not to be an issue). Doctrine is not the product of innovation; it is the product of development.

You wrote: “But you wouldn’t be allowed to recieve communion, and if you wanted to convert, you would have to go through instruction, then be re-baptized and re-confirmed.”

One is only baptized once. As long as a Trinitarian formula is used (and the correct matter, water) the baptism is valid—which is why we don’t re-baptise Protestants when they convert if they have been baptized correctly. If the Orthodox require re-baptism, then they are committing heresy. However, I doubt your information is accurate.

You wrote: “But we have Catholics who do it exactly the same way the Orthodox do - they are called Eastern Rite Catholics.”

Eastern Rite Catholics do not do their liturgy “exactly” as the Orthodox do—there are variations that reflect the different traditions (small “t”) and cultures represented.

 

[Sherlock]

crono_vivi,

You asked, “What made them separate in the first place?”

It’s a complex history. I would suggest reading this: catholic.com/library/Eastern_Orthodoxy.asp and this:
newadvent.org/cathen/11329a.htm

If I may ask, why are you considering leaving the Church? I don’t understand that yet. How much research have you done regarding the questions you have?

 

[PhilNeri]

crono,
It’s awesome that you’re researching the Faith! I’m 17. After my confirmation, I realized that I did many things “because my parents told me to” or “because the Church says so.” So I decided to learn why the Church teaches what she does. Through my reading and prayer, I have come to know and believe that the Catholic Church is the true church founded by Christ, the “pillar and bulwark of truth”. (See Matthew 16:18 and 1 Timothy 2:15)

My own 2 cents on this whole thing…
This website seems to promote the idealogy of just me, God, and the Bible. The problem is that this is un-Biblical!

The Bible can be misunderstood. “So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)
You cannot interpret Scripture by yourself. “First of all you must understand this, that no prophesy is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” (1 Peter 1:20)
You need someone with authority appointed by God to explain God’s word. Read the story of Philip & the eunuch in Acts 8:26-39. The eunuch says, “How can I [understand this] unless some one guides me?” The person qualified to explain was Philip, an Apostle of Christ. God didn’t just abandon us with the Bible, but gave us a church to preserve and explain all His teachings, not just those found in the Bible.
The Bible doesn’t have everything in it. “Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book” (John 20:30) “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” (John 21:25)
To top it off, the Catholic Church gave us the Bible. The canon of Scripture was settled at the Councils of Hippo & Carthage in the 300’s AD. At those councils, the Catholic Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, decided what went in the Bible and what didn’t.

Sorry this is so long, guess I got a little carried away. Hope this helps.

 

[urquhart]

Sherlock:

urquhart,

With all due respect, your information is misleading. Let me try to address a few:

You say that the Orthodox split, among other things, because of “changes the Catholics made to the Nicene Creed”. This is misleading because there’s really only item (the filioque) that is disputed, and most scholars will admit that this is really a question of semantics. It’s certainly no grounds on which to remain separate.

Nor is it proper to speak of “innovations”, unless you specify that these are not doctrinal (in which case, they ought not to be an issue). Doctrine is not the product of innovation; it is the product of development.

You wrote: “But you wouldn’t be allowed to recieve communion, and if you wanted to convert, you would have to go through instruction, then be re-baptized and re-confirmed.”

One is only baptized once. As long as a Trinitarian formula is used (and the correct matter, water) the baptism is valid—which is why we don’t re-baptise Protestants when they convert if they have been baptized correctly. If the Orthodox require re-baptism, then they are committing heresy. However, I doubt your information is accurate.

You wrote: “But we have Catholics who do it exactly the same way the Orthodox do - they are called Eastern Rite Catholics.”

Eastern Rite Catholics do not do their liturgy “exactly” as the Orthodox do—there are variations that reflect the different traditions (small “t”) and cultures represented.

Forgive my choice of words. I didn’t intend to be misleading - but I see that I did oversimplify.

However, I do believe, from reading these forums, that the Orthodox require re-baptism of Catholics in most cases. I hope I am wrong.

 

[crono_vivi]

“If I may ask, why are you considering leaving the Church? I don’t understand that yet. How much research have you done regarding the questions you have?”

I know I made it sound like I was already set to pack up, but that’s not really the case. I really just wanted to look at other religions at the same time; see what they are about.

 

[PhilNeri]

crono_vivi:

I really just wanted to look at other religions at the same time; see what they are about.

I don’t know much about other ones, just this one. And I like it just fine.

 

[1ke]

"Also, check out and see if the Early Fathers used the name Yahweh in their writings, as this group is doing. If not, why not? "

Do you know this offhand?

Trust me you guys, I’d much prefer to stay with Roman Catholicism. I just need to be shown the truth.

First, start with buying a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Second, to read the early church fathers, you can find them online at www.newadvent.org. You can also read a lot of historical topics there, such as how the bible developed, etc.

Also look at the Amy Welborn book series “Prove It”.

 

[1ke]

crono_vivi:

Worshipping Mary? Isn’t that Idolatry?

You’ve been Catholic for 16 years. Do you worship Mary? Can you give me any instances of worshipping Mary? What consitutes worship?

crono_vivi:

Umm, and the Pope being Infallible? Not sure if I believe that.

Why not?

crono_vivi:

And confession, don’t understand why I should confess to another human being, when God should be my only Judge.

See the Gospel of John.

 

[Magicsilence]

“If I may ask, why are you considering leaving the Church? I don’t understand that yet. How much research have you done regarding the questions you have?”

I know I made it sound like I was already set to pack up, but that’s not really the case. I really just wanted to look at other religions at the same time; see what they are about.

Remember that religion is not something that you pick and choose and that lasts for this life only, like EVERYTHING else in the world. It is infinite, it is very important that you realize why the other religions are wrong and come strongly back to the Catholic faith. There is no need for shopping around for a religion for a catholic, you are home, you have found “the religion”. As suggested by others, the CCC is highly recommended.

You have taken the first step by wanting to find the right religion, its natural to do so, but im willing to bet that (as with me) although you were a Catholic, you didnt really “know” your faith, God has shown you, personally, the light, Amen! If you explore this website and catholic.com on any issues that confuse you, im sure you will see that catholicism is just, so right!

You are in my prayers.

Andre.

 

[CLW001]

What does the word FAITH mean to you as a young man?

I think you might pick up a pocket Catholic Catechism and

read it first. it’s a great start to the beliefs and teachings of

the Catholic Church.

the Catholic Church is not a what, it’s a who, Jesus Christ.

 

[DianJo]

Crono,
I know your concerns. I am a CCD teacher and I have taught the Confirmation class. I, too, am disappointed in the materials that we have to use to teach from. Part of the problem, I have to say, from experience, is the immaturity of the students. At this age, they are more worried about their own social agendas than learning about their faith. In one hour, I spend probably more time trying to keep the kids quiet and redirecting their attention than actually teaching and then the students are not interested in learning. Now, that said…

I am one teacher that takes teaching the confirmation class very seriously. I do alot of extra research on my own to give to the kids. I try to give the answers to the questions and concerns you have posted here because I know that’s what they are being questioned about from the protestants they go to school with.

I am just glad that you have finally realized that you need to know these things! Hooray for you - you are growing up! Your Catholic faith has the truth, you just need to learn it. I could suggest a hundred books, but the one that I (a CCD teacher) want you to get immediately is the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”. It usually runs about $8 - $10 (you can order it from this website or you can get it at a Catholic book store or Amazon, Barnes and Noble, etc.). It will answer all your questions. Get a committed (and orthodox) Catholic to work with you - someone you can go to when you have questions or when you don’t understand what the Catechism is saying (some of it is pretty lofty, but you seem smart!).

Also, go to the home page of this site and go to the Library and read all the articles on the subjects you’ve posted as concerns of yours. These articles are very easy reading and are relatively short (compared to reading a whole book on the subject). Once you have made some headway, then you can begin to look into some other books or reference materials. You will also need to look into Chruch history. This, I think more than anything else will keep you Catholic!

You have the faith - it’s just in it’s infancy. You need some knowledge to help your faith grow. DO NOT GO LOOKING AT OTHER RELIGIONS UNTIL YOU HAVE STUDIED YOUR OWN FIRST. That is an imperative! You will be easily swayed from the truth if you don’t know the truth!

Have faith and come here anytime you have questions. There are many here that want to see you learn the truth. You are too young in age and too young in your faith yet to be making the kind of decision you are thinking about making. Stick with us - we’ll help you!

 

[scylla]

Hello,

I kinda know how you feel like, I grew in the Catholic Church, went through CCD and got confirmed. But you know what… they did a lousy job of teaching me why we as Catholics believe what we believe.
I had no way of defending my faith and if anyone brought me a Jack Chick comic or said things like “you guys worship Mary”

Since I really didn’t know my faith very well, I though maybe they had a point and I left the Church. I spent about 13 years away, just because of lousy understanding. I was like this until my brother started going to a church that was a little extreme in it’s views. I kept hearing all this crazy stuff about the Catholic Church and looked into it. Now after studying the Church and understanding more about it, I feel cheated that I left. I wasted all this time outside the Church, there is an answer out there for every question you have about the Catholic Church.

Once you understand it all it is really easy to explain and defend your faith because it all makes sense. So feel free to look into it, go to places like this site or others such as

www.biblechristiansociety.com

www.scripturecatholic.com

And you will see the logic and sanity behind Catholicism, it is not just a bunch of made up stuff. If you look into it your questions have answers and they will all fit together, it just takes some time to see it.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[DianJo]

I have a suggestion to all the young people on this thread who are (rightfully) complaining about their formation.

Write a humble and constructive letter to the Director of Religious Education at your parish as well as the pastor and your Bishop. Let them know of your experience in CCD class. Tell them what it is you needed to be taught, etc. Tell them all the things you are complaing about here.

They need to know these things. The decision on what materials to be used and how classes are structured come from the diocesan office. I hear teachers and students alike complaining about this all the time but nothing will change if you don’t tell the people who need to know!

One of the most important things we can do is teach our children what they need to know and it doesn’t seem like that’s happening! Why? You all say your classes were a joke. How? Explain this in your letter!

It hurts my heart to know that our own kids know that they do not know their faith. By the time they realize this, for some its too late! They’ve gone looking for solace eslewhere - like crono is thinking of doing! We need to change this! I don’t know what the answer is - does anyone!

 

[LSK]

crono_vivi:

Basically, it’s always bothered me how the Roman Catholic church (name removed by moderator)uts its own rules. I always wondered how they can make some of their rules when there is nothing in the Bible to back them up.

Honey - the Catholic Church is Biblically based. It is the Church that constructed the Bible. Without the Catholic Church there would be no Bible.

I would hope your instructions in CCC would have taught you this - the Holy Mother Church does not ‘(name removed by moderator)ut its own rules’ - it is guided by GOD in the person of the Holy Spirit.
Besides, if we use your reasoning then you are going to accept someone on a website who is (name removed by moderator)uting his or her own rules, aren’t you? Wouldn’t it make more sense to chose a 2,000 year old Church than someone who is making it up as they go along?

You also asked about paganism. When I was younger I thought Paganism sounded romantic also - all about nature and loving trees and ancient priests in druid outfits. That is addressed in the Bible.

The most important thing to remember is that nothing in the Catechism of the Church contradicts Holy Scripture. I would suggest you find a young person’s Bible Study at your Parish. Maybe you could even start one yourself?

 

[Roche42]

DianJo:

I have a suggestion to all the young people on this thread who are (rightfully) complaining about their formation.

Write a humble and constructive letter to the Director of Religious Education at your parish as well as the pastor and your Bishop. Let them know of your experience in CCD class. Tell them what it is you needed to be taught, etc. Tell them all the things you are complaing about here.

They need to know these things. The decision on what materials to be used and how classes are structured come from the diocesan office. I hear teachers and students alike complaining about this all the time but nothing will change if you don’t tell the people who need to know!

One of the most important things we can do is teach our children what they need to know and it doesn’t seem like that’s happening! Why? You all say your classes were a joke. How? Explain this in your letter!

It hurts my heart to know that our own kids know that they do not know their faith. By the time they realize this, for some its too late! They’ve gone looking for solace eslewhere - like crono is thinking of doing! We need to change this! I don’t know what the answer is - does anyone!

DianJo,

Sorry if what I wrote offended you. I agree there are many good CCD teachers out there, I have had them. You’re right, the problem is a lot of young people aren’t interested in learning about the faith, by the time they get to religious ed it is often too late, they already have lost interest in such things. The problem does begin at home, with parents. I know that a lot of what I learned about the faith I learned on my own, and luckily my parents now are much more devout than ever but when I was growing up the all too common divorce problem prevented a solid religious education at home. I don’t blame them either though, its a product of the culture we live in.
I happened to have a fantastic confirmation teacher, a very orthodox and devout man, I know he had a tremendous impact on my formation, but it was tough for him to reach kids that were already too interested in worldly matters. I also had a very devout and orthodox Youth Group leader. Unfortunately, however, both were removed shortly after I left. The man precisely because his orthodoxy was interepreted as “rigid” and people couldn’t handle it. The Youth Group leader fell prey to petty complaints of parents who had their own agendas. It must be extremely difficult to profess the faith when one’s own parish is telling you to dilute it!

God bless all of you who are faithful teachers out there, the problem is very similar to our vocation “problem”: they are there, people just don’t recognize it. Again, I’m sorry if I offended you, the problem is much deeper than what I may have indicated in my first post.

God Bless,
Alex

 

[nateph88]

Crono – I know exactly what you are going through. I too was confirmed this spring and am thinking about leaving the Church. I had a bit of a question that no one ever wants to answer for me dealing with the correctness of the Catholic Church. Jesus is said to have died on Good Friday and rose Easter Sunday. that is only two days and two nights. In Matthew 12:40 Jesus says “Just as Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of the beast, so I, the Son of Man will spent three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” I do believe Jesus rose I just believe the dates are wrong. Enlighten me please

 

[deb1]

nateph88:

Crono – I know exactly what you are going through. I too was confirmed this spring and am thinking about leaving the Church. I had a bit of a question that no one ever wants to answer for me dealing with the correctness of the Catholic Church. Jesus is said to have died on Good Friday and rose Easter Sunday. that is only two days and two nights. In Matthew 12:40 Jesus says “Just as Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of the beast, so I, the Son of Man will spent three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” I do believe Jesus rose I just believe the dates are wrong. Enlighten me please

You actually asked an easy question!! Hooray! The gospel was, of course, written by Jewish people. It makes sense that the traditions and culture of Judiasm has influenced the gospels, correct? Well, the amount of time that Jesus spent in the tomb was influenced by the Jewish perception of a day. Any part of a day, even if it was only an hour, was counted as a whole day.

An example of this would be if you arrived at my home at 4:00 p.m. Friday afternoon, stayed all through Saturday and left early Sunday morning according to first century Jewish thinking, you would have stayed with me three days!! They would have counted Friday as one day, Saturday as the next and SUnday as the third day.