Hello

[aileron]

Yes, but you used the term evil. That is why I asked. And I can see that it disturbs you to concede that these terms come from a Christian world view, because it then links your thoughts and actions to that view.

It doesn’t disturb me at all. There are certain aspects of evil that have supernatural elements to them, which I obviously reject. That doesn’t mean that I have to abandon a familiar term altogether.

And yet, this still doesn’t answer the question. Because their decision was also based on a moral compass, that which came from God.

You are making the assumption that humans are unable to learn better ethics over time. You paint a dismal picture of man, likely influenced by the doctrine of total depravity. I believe humankind is capable of learning from its history and improving its ethics as a result.

So you are ducking the question as to not concede that your moral compass in fact is based on that which indeed comes from God.

Brahmen, Ahura Mazda, or Yahweh? Prove it.

These other topics are a straw man argument. Slavery is something that pertains to one have power over the other. Domination of the stronger over the weak.

Is God not omnipotent? Why did he go to great lengths to forbid mixing certain food products or fibers together, but never teach humans that slavery is wrong? If you claim that he did teach humans, prove that it was Yahweh and not one of the other gods. Second thought, forget that. Why did it take thousands of years? “Don’t like it” and “straw man” are two entirely different things. If you’ve got a good reason, let’s hear it.

 

[aileron]

What is holding you back? What would make you “unstuck”?

Lack of reasonable proof.

It just takes some humility.

Can you define humility as you are using it here.

I can see that you are a bright person

Naw… I think I used to be at one time, maybe. Now whatever intellect I have is being squandered.

you don’t have to check your intellect at the door to trust in God and become a believer.

I want to make it clear that I never did nor will I ever think you do. I have a great deal of respect for a number of Christian scholars. I find most Christians are good and well meaning people. Surprisingly, I admire many of the institutions of the Church, particular the Jesuit order, Catholic Charities, etc. It is just the creeds and dogmas that I want to see go away. (I know, kind of like playing tennis without a net or racquet but it can still be meaningful to toss a ball back and forth.

 

[mrhenrik]

I said it was out of concern that I asked that question to Annabea, nothing more. You spoke out of turn, and insulted me. Don’t do that again!!

I’m not going to do a flamewar if that’s what you’re trying to drag me into. I didn’t mean to insult, obviously, but I’ve had the age card used against me before and it feels on par with racism and any other form of discrimination.

You never speak out of turn on a public discussion forum. You posted the concern for all to see, so all may comment on it. If you sent her a private message that’s none of my business.

 

[josie_L]

And thats the attitude that got this world were we are. Thats what we learn not to do in pre-school. If you are hit do not hit them back, it only causes more trouble. You do not realize it but I have been angered by many of your comments. I just replied to the calmly. If you yell I won’t yell back only for you to yell again. Do you see where I am coming from? If that offended you I’m sorry, it wasn’t meant to. It was only meant to give you my idea.

If you don’t like my comments then report them to the moderator. I’ve said nothing rude.

P.S. In my world, when a student talks back to an educator they get a timeout or sent to the principle’s office.

 

[Annabea]

Um no, I was stating that there is no proof from his statement alone that there are no other texts, such as the Early Church Fathers, that talk about the dead walking as talked about in the gospels. Not sure where you came up with your conclusion.

But certainly, your statement may speak for all, even if you didn’t plan for it. The bible is no proof therefore…

 

[Annabea]

If you don’t like my comments then report them to the moderator. I’ve said nothing rude.

P.S. In my world, when a student talks back to an educator they get a timeout or sent to the principle’s office.

To you at least.
P.S. Please do not bring up the age card again. If I am to be here, I want to be treated as an equal, not a humble child.

 

[josie_L]

I’m not going to do a flamewar if that’s what you’re trying to drag me into. I didn’t mean to insult, obviously, but I’ve had the age card used against me before and it feels on par with racism and any other form of discrimination.

You never speak out of turn on a public discussion forum. You posted the concern for all to see, so all may comment on it. If you sent her a private message that’s none of my business.

So then why didn’t you say this from the beginning instead of believing I was out to insult her. It was concern, nothing more. I didn’t think it necessary to PM her for this. You on the otherhand should not be making assumptions about me.

 

[mrhenrik]

If you don’t like my comments then report them to the moderator. I’ve said nothing rude.

P.S. In my world, when a student talks back to an educator they get a timeout or sent to the principle’s office.

If my educator taught me things not based on facts at all, I’d shop around for a new school.

 

[jam070406]

You are making the assumption that humans are unable to learn better ethics over time. You paint a dismal picture of man, likely influenced by the doctrine of total depravity. I believe humankind is capable of learning from its history and improving its ethics as a result.

I never made that assumption.
Better ethics will come out of love of neighbor. The only way the world will continue to grow more dismal is if it continues to abandon God and love of neighbor. With all the bloodshed of the 20th and 21st century I’d say man is failing on to learn, no?

Is God not omnipotent? Why did he go to great lengths to forbid mixing certain food products or fibers together, but never teach humans that slavery is wrong? If you claim that he did teach humans, prove that it was Yahweh and not one of the other gods. Second thought, forget that. Why did it take thousands of years? “Don’t like it” and “straw man” are two entirely different things. If you’ve got a good reason, let’s hear it.

I don’t profess to know the all the in’s and out’s of God’s will. I can’t prove it and it’s not for me to prove it anyway. Jesus came to Earth and showed by example how to love others. Some followed His example, some didn’t
I, like many others, can only tell you what Jesus has done in my life.

 

[josie_L]

To you at least.
P.S. Please do not bring up the age card again. If I am to be here, I want to be treated as an equal, not a humble child.

Please, tell me what I’ve said to you that was rude? And I’m sorry but I will not treat you as an equal. I’ll treat you with respect but not as my equal. Respect for your elders means something in my world.

 

[jam070406]

Lack of reasonable proof.

Why? And what is reasonable proof to you?

Can you define humility as you are using it here.

Yeah, not letting your own pride, your desire to must be right, get in the way of God’s love for you and Him leading to you to Truth.

Naw… I think I used to be at one time, maybe. Now whatever intellect I have is being squandered.

C’moooon, is this meant as an uncharitable statement? Like you’re wasting your intellect on me. Please don’t be like that.

I want to make it clear that I never did nor will I ever think you do. I have a great deal of respect for a number of Christian scholars. I find most Christians are good and well meaning people. Surprisingly, I admire many of the institutions of the Church, particular the Jesuit order, Catholic Charities, etc. It is just the creeds and dogmas that I want to see go away. (I know, kind of like playing tennis without a net or racquet but it can still be meaningful to toss a ball back and forth.

I hope you see me as a well meaning person. That’s all I’m trying to be.

Why do you want to see the creeds and dogmas go away? Please explain.

 

[jam070406]

But certainly, your statement may speak for all, even if you didn’t plan for it. The bible is no proof therefore…

Maybe to you.

Catholics don’t rely on the Bible alone. We also have a Church that has bore witness through the ages.

 

[aileron]

I never made that assumption.

I should have added “without God”. Is it safe to assume that you believe all morality comes from God?

Better ethics will come out of love of neighbor. The only way the world will continue to grow more dismal is if it continues to abandon God and love of neighbor. With all the bloodshed of the 20th and 21st century I’d say man is failing on to learn, no?

These things take time. The cold calculus of bloodshed has dramatically declined since the world peak in WWII.

I don’t profess to know the all the in’s and out’s of God’s will.

Earlier, I predicted a mysterious ways type argument. This is a debate stopper all around. For example, if you find any purported actions of Brahman or Ahura Mazda or any claimed deity give strong appearances of being human inventions rather than the actions of an all knowing, all loving God, the followers can use the same argument. If the argument is allowed, I have no better means to evaluate the validity of your claims than the claim of the Hindu or Zoroastrian.

I think I’ve worn out my welcome anyway. I actually enjoy debating Christians elsewhere, but a Catholic answers forum may not be the best medium. I do appreciate that you took the time to respond though.

 

[jam070406]

I should have added “without God”. Is it safe to assume that you believe all morality comes from God?

These things take time. The cold calculus of bloodshed has dramatically declined since the world peak in WWII.

Earlier, I predicted a mysterious ways type argument. This is a debate stopper all around. For example, if you find any purported actions of Brahman or Ahura Mazda or any claimed deity give strong appearances of being human inventions rather than the actions of an all knowing, all loving God, the followers can use the same argument. If the argument is allowed, I have no better means to evaluate the validity of your claims than the claim of the Hindu or Zoroastrian.

I think I’ve worn out my welcome anyway. I actually enjoy debating Christians elsewhere, but a Catholic answers forum may not be the best medium. I do appreciate that you took the time to respond though.

I understand. You can’t prove that morailty or love comes from any place other then God so I view that as the debate stopper right there anyway.
Oh well,
good day. I hope you find what you are searching for.

 

[aileron]

I understand. You can’t prove that morailty or love comes from any place other then God so I view that as the debate stopper right there anyway.
Oh well,
good day. I hope you find what you are searching for.

Well, what I’m really thinking is - do the owners / admins / mods want too much of this? Atheists debating Christians, or does this forum serve another purpose? If its OK to do here, I can make Jehovah’s Witnesses tell me “It’s been a long time now. We’ve really got to go now.”

 

[mrhenrik]

Please, tell me what I’ve said to you that was rude? And I’m sorry but I will not treat you as an equal. I’ll treat you with respect but not as my equal. Respect for your elders means something in my world.

Elders with respect means something in my world, while elders without respect means nothing.

How does Annabea’s age affect her statements? Is she perhaps clouded from indoctrination during her early life? Perhaps she doesn’t look at the facts before making assumptions? This rings a whole lot of bells, and I can distinctly tell where they’re coming from.

 

[jam070406]

Is she perhaps clouded from indoctrination during her early life?

You mean like from the atheist board she recruited you from?

 

[mrhenrik]

Yes, that is what this is. An atheist conquest to spread disbelief in the catholic faith started by a delusional 12 year old. :egyptian:

I haven’t been recruited by anyone, I found the forum through a Google search after finally seeing the true light and moving on from my christian life I had been living for 18 years. I saw her post, and went along for a good discussion.

In case you didn’t notice, those statements are largely more fit for a christian child, but for the sake of civilized discussion I won’t elaborate.

 

[rinnie]

What about faith in yourself? And I’m sorry you think you will never feel true happiness. Its those rare moments in your life though. And when you die and supposedly join Jesus will you pity all your non-believing friends and other people whom you have met burning down in hell? Will that give you peace?

No I will pray for them. But when I die and meet Jesus I will fill nothing but pure wonderful Joy. Happiness, I will see all of my loved ones who have already made their home in Chirst. It will be a time to celebrate. Forever. eternal happiness. I will get Peace from my Lord never from someone elses pain. That is not a emotion of someone with faith. No one that loves God and knows his love for us would ever rejoice in someone elses pain. I never said I would never fill true happiness, actually I said that I know I will. Complete true happiness is to be with God. I have alot of happiness in this world, but its nothing compared to whats in store for me.

 

[rinnie]

I understand. You can’t prove that morailty or love comes from any place other then God so I view that as the debate stopper right there anyway.
Oh well,
good day. I hope you find what you are searching for.

I knew it would end like this, They are only here to try to hurt us. Thats okay let them try. Me personally shake the dust and move on. The best we can do is pray for them.

Prayer is much more powerful than words can ever be. God Bless!