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josie_L
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I would like to read it, but can you give us an idea of what it contains? And is it anything different than what Christians have been preaching for the last two millenia?
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happilycatholic
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Let’s put this into perspective for a second. Either I’m confused about why you’re here or I’m missing your point or both. All I have to go on is your OP. You asked what Christians believe but you don’t want to hear that Christians believe love is God. Maybe the PMers are better at it than I. I try to stick to the simplest form.
What is it you want to hear? That it’s okay to be an atheist? That you are correct in your unbelief? You’ve come to the wrong place for that. But I can tell you this, Jesus Christ died for you AND I. He love us the very same. I know you don’t want to hear that, but I’m not sure what you do want to hear so I’m throwing that out there because it’s what I believe.
We disagree, that is no reason to be ugly. But you are very ugly in your responses. I’m not putting you down for believing what you believe. I’m not calling you ignorant or telling you to stop stating what you believe.
All I’ve done here is try to find out how atheist/agnostics reconcile the belief in love with the disbelief in God. That’s it.
I hope you find whatever it is you came here for. The Holy Spirit rests here so try to be more respectful of that.
HC
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happilycatholic
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aileron
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Basically it seeks to promote skepticism and free thought, separate church and state, promote science and education including moral education, and defend human rights. It states as goals to reach more or less “someday” would be things like an end to political boundaries on earth, universal democracy, etc.
This question assumes that there has been a consistent preaching for the last two millenia, which I dispute. However, for the sake of simplcity you can think of their mentality as being like the secular parts of a very liberal modern Christian group or perhaps the secular portions of the Unitarians - not exactly, but sorta.
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aileron
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Do you know the will of God or speak for him?
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happilycatholic
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God has revealed His will to us through His Church. No I don’t speak for God.
Edit:
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Probably one of the most famous if not the most famous of all quotes from Scripture. God makes it very plain what happens to those who don’t believe.
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jam070406
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I can understand your confusion. I was thinking the same thing and was going to ask something similar before you beat me to it.
She claimed to want to learn what we believe, but, then puts up a fight.
Apparantly she’s looking for some sort of affirmation of her belief by arguing with people that share a completely different world view. It’s not enough for her to get that affirmation from atheist websites so she feels that beating down the beliefs of Catholics on a Catholic board will somehow give her some feeling of superiority. That’s what it sure looks like anyway. That, and she’s just a child.
I think it’s best to just ignore her at this point.
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aileron
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Thank you. We’ll leave it between God and me then.
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rinnie
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Its quite simple actually, Look at people. They endure suffering different ways. Some people say WHY ME. Others say why not me?
The People that are closer to God in their life except suffering more. They begin to understand it. People who have no God in their life can not even begin to understand it. Alone endure it.
People who know God understand that nothing evil come from God. But God can take something evil and bring good out of it. If you think this world is fair, and great and wonderful and there is no suffering this is your world. If you cannot understand the way people treat eachother and hurt eachother this is not your world either. If you can cheat steal, murder, take off the poor, and your conscience is clear this is your world. IF your attitude is get them before they get you this is your world. If you put yourself first before anyone this is your world. Then there is no God in you.
If you love to see People suffer and hurt and hate God and turn away from him, then you are not of God. It is sad to say but many people do not choose God and will not. Its a hard thing to say, but its the truth. If you do not choose God you do the works of the devil. Its really as plain as that.
By the way I have 2 dogs. They are not human beings. They are animals. They obey because they are trained to obey. They love me in the only way they know how. If you show a dog love they learn love. if you show a dog hate they know hate. they have no free will to choose for themself. They do not realize that they are showing love back or hate back. They only know what you teach them.
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happilycatholic
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josie_L
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The only Christians I know who were around two millenia ago and are still around today is Catholics (and Orthodox too). And the CC has never changed its stance on morality in all those years.
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happilycatholic
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I love you annabea. I have actually cried for you on this forum. I’m not trying to be cheesy, I’m telling the truth. I have a child. He’s 25 now but he struggled with faith too. I’m not saying you’re struggling, but you probably will or have at some point. If you truly are 12, you are the most well-spoken 12 year old I’ve ever had the pleasure of having a discussion with and I hope you won’t over-analyze God’s love. I hope you will try not to get frustrated and try to listen to both sides of the argument, any argument. Anger and frustration turns our minds inward in defense of our position.
I apologize for having frustrated you. Like I said, I hope you find your way. Please don’t rely solely on the interwebz
to do this though k?**Edit: If you truly are looking for a great perspective on Christianity/catholicism, guanophore is a wonderful source of information. Read what she says and you will learn a lot about what we believe as Christians and catholics.
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aileron
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When you say “no God” what does this mean? Does it mean atheist or not the Judeo-Christian God?
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josie_L
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happilycatholic
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I said this:
“The fact that you choose not to believe that is not my consern.”
It’s not true. I do have concern for you. ~HC
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mrhenrik
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But if you trained a person like you trained a dog, would you not get the same results?
I would also like to state that both sides of this discussion seems like they could use another portion of “calm down, show some respect”.
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rinnie
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If you deny the existance of God. That is what I mean by No God. If you do not acknowledge God the God of Abraham the God of heaven and Earth. God the Almighty Father you reject God and if you reject God there is no God in you.
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jam070406
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Can a Marine that went through training adjust back to civil society when he goes on leave?
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rinnie
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If you knew God you would know that no one can TRAIN another person. They would take away from them their free will. That is impossible. God has given everyone free will.
If you tried to train a person the first chance they could they would run away from you. That is common sense first of all, and then free will. A dog will continue to act the way it was trained and does not realize it is good nor bad. No understanding. You cannot compare the 2. If you mistreat a person they have feelings and know they are mistreated. Sure you can make someone think they deserve abuse, but they still know its abuse. You can even try to make them think that they made you abuse them. But its still abuse. Its not from God. Any person that would even try to train a human being like a animal is not from God. Anyone who would want to even do that is not from God.
If you could show me where I have shown disrespect please do so. I have only quoted scripture when asked how I know that if you are not of God you are against GOd. And if you are against God and reject him you are of the devil. Thats the bible not me.
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mrhenrik
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Marines aren’t trained as dogs though.
I don’t see it as impossible to train a person as a dog. It would be highly immoral and basically a very disgusting thing to do, but if you surpressed a person enough mentally, and then began treating it as a dog, eventually it would begin acting as one, or at least be as submissive as a “properly” (from a common viewpoint I don’t share) trained dog.
I wasn’t referring to anyone in particular, it just seems that the discussion is getting more and more heated, with more and more mud-throwing - not really something we want.
Being called the devil’s child, for instance, does not provide a good basis for discussion however. I would like to know where this interpretation is from. Does it say word for word in the Bible that those who reject god are of the devil, or does it come from saying “well, Jesus said that if you are not of god you are against him, and since it somewhere else says that the enemy of god is the devil, obviously those rejecting god must be the devil’s servants”?
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