Help a non-Catholic Understand the Marriage Process

[SpaceMonkey]

Hi all and thanks in advance for any advice and information you can provide.

 I'm a divorced non-Catholic guy that has been in long distance relationship with a Catholic girl for several years and we just got engaged this past weekend. She will be moving to my location after finding a job and before we marry so we can go through the marriage process together within the Church. We want to cohabitate to over come the financial hardships it would take on for to move and live on her own.

Q) what will the Church think of this? I know it’s not popular with the Church to cohabitate before marriage but it makes sense to me to do it this way so we can go though the process as a team.

I understand that I need to get my previous marriage dissolved through the Church before I can marry in the Church. How do I start this process? Can I just make an appointment with my local church even though I'm not a member? I married my ex after she became pregnant and we we're not practicing any religion. (I was baptized in a Methodist church as a child but have never really practiced)

She is trying to set up a meeting with her church to find out what steps need to be taken and ask for advice but I wanted to reach out to others that can help me understand better what will be asked of us.

Thank you for again for helping me get a better understand of my circumstance

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Yes, call the Parish and explain your marital situation and the desire to speak with a priest. Each Parish will have at least one priest that has a lot of knowledge about the annulment process. That’s who you need to speak to and he can give you the paperwork and instructions…

Speaking from experience, do this as soon as possible as it takes forever sometimes to get your case heard. Especially now with the Pontiff making the process easier, it has encouraged many former Catholics back to the Church. So there are long lines.

Sounds like maybe you are considering converting. Good time to sign up for the next RCIA starting in AUG or Sept. No pressure to convert but it is part of the process if you decide you want to.

Best of luck to you.

 

[1ke]

Q) what will the Church think of this? I know it’s not popular with the Church to cohabitate before marriage but it makes sense to me to do it this way so we can go though the process as a team.

Talk to her pastor before you and she cohabit.

I understand that I need to get my previous marriage dissolved through the Church before I can marry in the Church.

That depends on whether you or your ex were/are baptized Christians. The Church can dissolve natural bonds, those involving someone who is not baptized. The Pauline or Petrine Privilege may apply in such a case.

No power on earth can dissolve a valid marriage between two baptized people. If you believe your marriage is invalid, due to a defect or impediment, then the Church can complete an investigation to determine whether the marriage is valid or invalid (this is what you hear termed an “annulment”).

How do I start this process? Can I just make an appointment with my local church even though I’m not a member?

Yes. Contact the local Catholic pastor and make an appointment to see him.

I married my ex after she became pregnant and we we’re not practicing any religion. (I was baptized in a Methodist church as a child but have never really practiced)

This is all information to give to the pastor.

She is trying to set up a meeting with her church to find out what steps need to be taken and ask for advice but I wanted to reach out to others that can help me understand better what will be asked of us.

Marriage preparation is typically around 6 months. But, your freedom to marry will have to be determined also, which might extend out the time.

Marriage preparation includes the investigation of freedom to marry, discussion with the priest or his designee on the sacrament of marriage, and practical preparation such as a retreat weekend, meetings with the priest or meetings with a married couple. There may be something like the FOCCUS assessment, too. It varies from diocese to diocese, so the best place to get information is the local Catholic pastor.

I suggest you rethink the plan to cohabit. She can live with some of your family or friends or get a roommate. It’s not forever.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Thank you for the quick replies. Very good information and I think that sufficiently answers my questions for now. I’m sure throughout the process there will be more information I might need help with understanding. Thank you again and have a great weekend

 

[LittleFlower378]

Hi all and thanks in advance for any advice and information you can provide.

 I'm a divorced non-Catholic guy that has been in long distance relationship with a Catholic girl for several years and we just got engaged this past weekend. She will be moving to my location after finding a job and before we marry so we can go through the marriage process together within the Church. We want to cohabitate to over come the financial hardships it would take on for to move and live on her own.

Q) what will the Church think of this? I know it’s not popular with the Church to cohabitate before marriage but it makes sense to me to do it this way so we can go though the process as a team.

I understand that I need to get my previous marriage dissolved through the Church before I can marry in the Church. How do I start this process? Can I just make an appointment with my local church even though I'm not a member? I married my ex after she became pregnant and we we're not practicing any religion. (I was baptized in a Methodist church as a child but have never really practiced)

She is trying to set up a meeting with her church to find out what steps need to be taken and ask for advice but I wanted to reach out to others that can help me understand better what will be asked of us.

Thank you for again for helping me get a better understand of my circumstance

Do not cohabitate. There are a million reasons, one being that cohabitating couples are more likely to get divorced but most importantly it is agianst the Church for good reason. Your fiance should know this.

 

[DAML72]

I would second the advice to not cohabit - for a lot of reasons.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

She won’t be ready to move for approximately 4 months so depending on how long the rest of the process takes its not a bad suggestion that she could stay with my family until marriage.

What are the thoughts on us getting married as soon as possible then having a wedding when we’re ready. We had originally thought of saving for a year before we wed but don’t want to wait that long to start our lives as one unit. She was born with a heart defect and last year had a major surgery thst scared me and made me realize that her time on earth us much more limited than mine and I want as much time with her as I can get.

 

[Usige]

By all means she needs to talk with her priest, but here are some points to consider.

If by cohabitate you mean sleep in the same bed without intercourse, then the Church doesn’t simply thinks it’s unpopular. At best it is the sin of scandal or more likely it is placing yourselves in the near occasion of sin. The Church at this point would consider you married (assuming your ex wasn’t Catholic and married outside the Catholic Church). That means that your fiance would be considered to be living with a married man. If you mean live together while having sex, it is a mortal sin. That means she is completely cut off from receiving communion. It places both of your souls in very real danger of Hell. As you can see, it’s more than just unpopular with the Church as She cares for your souls.

Beyond the moral question, there are questions of practicality.

Depending on the diocese you are married in will impact the length of marriage prep. My diocese requires 1 year and that is without the question of any previous marriages. If she is moving to your area and you say it’s a long distance relationship then I assume it is a different diocese then where she lives now. Technically as soon as she relocates near you she is bound by the laws of the diocese she resides in. That means if she talks to a priest in her current location he may provide information that is not correct for the new diocese. She should mention that she would be getting married and doing prep in another diocese. Her new diocese might also delay marriage prep for a short while until she has established residency. In general, my own pastor will not start marriage prep for a couple who don’t have an introduction from a former pastor or until they have been resident in the parish for a couple months. The Church is not just somewhere you go in and say we need to book a wedding date so the pastor will likely want to know that you guys aren’t just going to show up for a couple classes, the wedding and then never be seen again.

As for your previous marriage, do not go into the process with the assumption that an annulment will be granted. My own diocese is very clear about making any concrete marriage plans before an annulment is in hand. At best it adds a couple months to the required prep. In some cases it might be a year or more. Worst case is that your previous marriage is found to be valid and she cannot marry you.

Why is all this important? What if she moves in and then your annulment investigation drags out for a year and you get a negative reply? Will she just abandon the Church and get married outside of it? If she does she will not be able to receive the sacraments until she repents and turns away from sin. That would mean either separating or living in the same house without any sexual contact. That become difficult if you now have both setup house and potentially have children together.

I am not trying to be a downer, but trying to layout why it is beyond a bad idea to move in together when you are not even free to marry at this point. Until you have a positive declaration that your previous marriage is invalid she needs to treat you as a married man. Most people would agree that cohabiting with someone married to another person is a very, very bad idea. That is the situation you are describing as things stand right now.

 

[Usige]

What are the thoughts on us getting married as soon as possible then having a wedding when we’re ready. We had originally thought of saving for a year before we wed but don’t want to wait that long to start our lives as one unit. She was born with a heart defect and last year had a major surgery thst scared me and made me realize that her time on earth us much more limited than mine and I want as much time with her as I can get.

Until your previous marriage is found to be invalid she cannot marry you. At least not validly. No Catholic priest would marry you without the previous marriage being resolved.

If you mean get married civilly outside the Church and get married in the Church in the future? I think you are risking her eternal soul. Given her health concerns I would be especially concerned at putting her at greater risk by “marrying” now and then doing it right sometime in the future.

I hope I am not coming off as uncharitable, but please realize that the Catholic Church takes marriage very seriously. We teach that marriage makes a fundamental change to your soul. Knowingly entering into an invalid marriage is to treat a core sacrament of the Church as something of man and not something established by God.

Can marriage prep be sped up if there is a pressing need? Yes to a point. But since you are objectively still married in the eye of the Church (and therefore the eyes of God) you cannot speed up the date until that is resolved. I would be surprised if it is less than a year. Most annulments will take several months to a year. With only a single marriage we tell couples to expect a minimum of 12 months to account for the annulment and marriage prep and be prepared for 18 months to 2 years depending on their case and how quickly data is gathered.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Do not cohabitate. There are a million reasons, one being that cohabitating couples are more likely to get divorced but most importantly it is agianst the Church for good reason. Your fiance should know this.

I second this; cohabiting is a horrible idea.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Since I’m not Catholic please understand that my terminology isn’t intended to offend and I do have serious questions about the Church. Are not all diocese bound by the same church doctrine? How can one have one set of rules while another has a different set? As an outsider of the Church it just seems odd and again, not trying to sound offensive but I am ignorant.

She has a call in with her Deacon and I’m sure he will direct her but I’m just trying to see what I’m up against.

The Church is more than a venue to us. I want to get married in the Church because she loves her religion and I love her and will always support her. I love God as well but I’m not Catholic. I’m more of the thought that I have my faith and that’s my relationship with God and religion is how man wants to celebrate that relationship. Some people follow the Catholic teachings for that and see Baptist. I personally don’t believe that God will send me to Hell for not following any single religious teaching. If we were both Catholic this would be a lot easier but since we’re not I’m here looking for answers and insight. Please don’t be offended.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

It’s tough for me to quote reply from my phone.

It seems to me that the best thing is for me to go to my local Church and speak with them since this is where we will be located at the time of the marriage. She can speak to her local church for now to get advice and guidance but ultimately it’s here that will decide.

Thank you for your time and information. Just seems this is more complicated than can be concluded by a forum since every diocese has a different opinion on what it will take to get us to where we want to be.

 

[LaetenturCaeli]

Are not all diocese bound by the same church doctrine? How can one have one set of rules while another has a different set?

Rules and doctrines are different things.

A particular bishop is by no means free to declare that Jesus Christ is not a divine person, for example.

But he may exercise his authority in making certain prudential judgments specifically for his diocese.

The question of cohabitation is very sensitive and, while there are clear doctrines that underlie how one approaches this question, not every pastoral decision is going to be identical.

 

[Usige]

Since I’m not Catholic please understand that my terminology isn’t intended to offend and I do have serious questions about the Church. Are not all diocese bound by the same church doctrine? How can one have one set of rules while another has a different set? As an outsider of the Church it just seems odd and again, not trying to sound offensive but I am ignorant.

The Catholic Church has universal law and particular law. Universal law is in the Code of Canon law. This is where you will find things like the requirement that Catholic be married in the Catholic Church or receive a dispensation. It is binding on all Catholics. That law can even be broken down into Eccelsiastic law (binding on Catholics) and Natural law that is binding on all mankind (i.e. the prohibition against divorce and remarriage).

Particular law is set by a Bishop of the Diocese. For instance one diocese might require a couple attend Natural Family Planning classes, but another might not. This might also include requirements on what preparation is required via things like a FOCCUS inventory, engaged encounter weekends, et cetera. Particular law is the way a bishop fulfills the pastoral responsibility of those in their care. As long as particular law does not contradict universal law it is the Bishops right (and perhaps responsibility) to set laws that are particular to his diocese.

She has a call in with her Deacon and I’m sure he will direct her but I’m just trying to see what I’m up against.

The Church is more than a venue to us. I want to get married in the Church because she loves her religion and I love her and will always support her. I love God as well but I’m not Catholic. I’m more of the thought that I have my faith and that’s my relationship with God and religion is how man wants to celebrate that relationship. Some people follow the Catholic teachings for that and see Baptist. I personally don’t believe that God will send me to Hell for not following any single religious teaching. If we were both Catholic this would be a lot easier but since we’re not I’m here looking for answers and insight. Please don’t be offended.

I know it can get confusing. When it comes to things like marriage there are things that we believe are laws purely from God. The prohibition against murder is binding on all humans. The commandment against adultery is also. Christ was very clear about divorce and hence the reason that Catholics presume all marriages are until death. The requirement to go to Mass on Sundays and Holy Days are not binding on you as a non-Catholic, but are binding on her. That is because that is an Ecclesiastic law. Now one might argue that since you are baptized that you are bound to worship God as is his due, but lets not get too far afield.

I hope I don’t come off as offended and hope you are not offended either. I am glad that you care enough about her to try to understand her religion even if you do not have the same faith.

I think one of the things that is hard for outsiders is that Catholicism, lived to it’s fullest, permeates everything we do. I know that was hard for me to understand when my wife converted and before I did. Church isn’t just something you do for a couple hours on Sundays and perhaps keep tucked away in a book the rest of the week. The sacraments (which marriage/matrimony is one of seven) is seen as how we live out our vocation and is the primary vehicle in which we evangelize the world and spread the Gospel. Marriage is much more than simply a legal contract, but provides grace that strengthens us in our Christian discipleship. The Church will ask several things of you both with regards to marriage. In particular:The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life and which is ordered by its nature to the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring, has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament between the baptized (code of Canon Law 1055)
If a couple does not hold that marriage is for life and are open to children then expect several conversations with the priest or deacon as it is foundation to Catholic understanding of marriage. A permanent intention against children or an acceptance of divorce ending marriage are both grounds for declaring a marriage null.

 

[Usige]

It’s tough for me to quote reply from my phone.

It seems to me that the best thing is for me to go to my local Church and speak with them since this is where we will be located at the time of the marriage. She can speak to her local church for now to get advice and guidance but ultimately it’s here that will decide.

Thank you for your time and information. Just seems this is more complicated than can be concluded by a forum since every diocese has a different opinion on what it will take to get us to where we want to be.

That is the wise course. My replies are not to discourage you, but as you point out that it will not be as simple as a couple forms and picking a date.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi all and thanks in advance for any advice and information you can provide.

 I'm a divorced non-Catholic guy that has been in long distance relationship with a Catholic girl for several years and we just got engaged this past weekend. She will be moving to my location after finding a job and before we marry so we can go through the marriage process together within the Church. We want to cohabitate to over come the financial hardships it would take on for to move and live on her own.

No. Even if you remain chaste during the engagement period, it still sends a signal to the young that sex before marriage is no big deal as long as you have a wedding date (because the young will not know that you aren’t having sex, and even if you tell them, they’ll think you’re trying to spare their feelings).

That’s called “scandal,” and it’s a sin.

Q) what will the Church think of this? I know it’s not popular with the Church to cohabitate before marriage but it makes sense to me to do it this way so we can go though the process as a team.

You could live in the same building, or same neighborhood, and still be able to travel together.

I understand that I need to get my previous marriage dissolved through the Church before I can marry in the Church. How do I start this process? Can I just make an appointment with my local church even though I'm not a member?

Contact the Catholic church nearest to where you live. From a legal standpoint, you are already considered a parishioner there, even though you’re not a Catholic. Explain the situation to one of the priests there (not the lay staff, including the secretary - speak only to a priest about this).

I married my ex after she became pregnant and we we’re not practicing any religion. (I was baptized in a Methodist church as a child but have never really practiced)

Bring this information and anything like that to the priest. We as lay people can’t make any kind of a ruling on your behalf, and can’t give opinions (although some will give it a try, I’m sure.)

She is trying to set up a meeting with her church to find out what steps need to be taken and ask for advice but I wanted to reach out to others that can help me understand better what will be asked of us.

“She” meaning your current fiancée? She can find stuff out, but it will be up to you to put it into action, so you might as well get the ball rolling on your end - sooner rather than later.

And once the process gets going, stay on top of it. Don’t let any of the documents stay over at your house overnight - receive them, bring them home, fill them out, and get them to their next stop without any delay.

 

[1ke]

Are not all diocese bound by the same church doctrine? How can one have one set of rules while another has a different set?

There aren’t “different rules”. The Church only requires marriage preparation–it doesn’t specify every little detail of life regardless of what misconoceptions there are about that. The Bishop is the authority in his own diocese, therefore he establishes what that looks like in his diocese.

I want to get married in the Church because she loves her religion and I love her and will always support her.

That is wonderful. My suggestion is to put this aside online and talk to the deacon or priest. You are going to get lots of answers, some of which may not even be accurate, since this is a public forum.

IRL take things one step at a time, don’t get overwhelmed because you just need to do one step, then the next. If she loves her religion as you say, the cohabitation and getting civilly married should be far from your plan. FYI, you do not have to have a big, fancy, expensive wedding to be married in the Church.

Please don’t be offended.

No one should be offended, but if they are that is their problem.

 

[1ke]

It’s tough for me to quote reply from my phone.

It seems to me that the best thing is for me to go to my local Church and speak with them since this is where we will be located at the time of the marriage. She can speak to her local church for now to get advice and guidance but ultimately it’s here that will decide.

Thank you for your time and information. Just seems this is more complicated than can be concluded by a forum since every diocese has a different opinion on what it will take to get us to where we want to be.

FYI, my husband and I got married in the Church and we lived 2000 miles apart.

We did some of the marriage prep in my diocese and some in his diocese. It can be done.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Thank all of you for your insight. It’s a really hard thing to feal with when someone who isnt Catholic loves some who is so much and only wants to give her the most love in this life from another human she could ever have and her religion basically tells you to go pound sand. I think she’s an angel sent her to save me and the responses here and anything I’ve read online basically tell me that it’s not gon a happen and if she wants to be with me she will burn in hell.

A lot of people think that Muslims are hardcore and to be looked down upon but it’s hard to see how catholics aren’t just as close minded. Sorry again if I offend. I respect anyone who has a strong relationship with God, no matter how they practice that relationship

 

[jmcrae]

Thank all of you for your insight. It’s a really hard thing to feal with when someone who isnt Catholic loves some who is so much and only wants to give her the most love in this life from another human she could ever have and her religion basically tells you to go pound sand. I think she’s an angel sent her to save me and the responses here and anything I’ve read online basically tell me that it’s not gon a happen and if she wants to be with me she will burn in hell.

A lot of people think that Muslims are hardcore and to be looked down upon but it’s hard to see how catholics aren’t just as close minded. Sorry again if I offend. I respect anyone who has a strong relationship with God, no matter how they practice that relationship

If they said “until death ye do part”'or words to the same effect at your first wedding, then you are a married man. Jesus told us that no human being can break that bond - not a divorce court judge, not a law firm full of divorce lawyers - no one.

That’s why you have to prove that no true marriage took place the first time.