Help answering some claims

[WJL]

I came across this guy on YouTube “sapiensape” who claims to be “a former Christian, and now a Secular Humanist and Atheist.” He claims that the Old Testament is all based off of Sumerian mythology, the Exodus never happened etc. and his YouTube channel is filled with videos he made in which he attempts to ‘disprove’ the Bible.

 He had this video entitled *"Biblical Nonsense: The Feeding of God (The Mesopotamian Background)"*:

[youtube.com/watch?v=B-hcAuNxOo8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-hcAuNxOo8)

He says, "If God is immortal why does he "need" to have meals prepared for him by his priests daily? This video traces this concept to Sumerian (Mesopotamian) notions at Ur of the Chaldees, the home of Abraham." In the video he continues:
"God declares in the Holy Bible that his priests will daily prepare his food and drink for his consumption. The feeding of God begins at Mount Sinai with the establishment of the Aaronic priesthood. As is quite clear from the prophet Ezekiel God is to be fed by his priests for all of eternity upon the return from Exile. Why does God "need" to consume food and drink? This question is never asked in the Bible. The purpose of food and drink is to sustain mortal life. Mortals will die if they have nothing to eat and drink, but a God presented as being immortal shouldn't "need" food and drink daily to survive. The answer to this "mystery" is surprising: Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees in Mesopotamia and in this region it was believed in myths that the god had made man to care for their city-gardens in the Edin of Sumer and present them daily in sacrifices at temples the harvested food for the gods to dine upon. But wait a minute you say, aren't the gods immortal? They shouldn't need to eat in order to stay alive, should they? Wrong! The early myths have the gods possessing bodies of flesh, they can be killed and wind up after death in Edin-the Underworld. While alive in the Edin of Sumer, they need to eat to keep their fleshly bodies alive. Hence the reason they created their gardens of Edin and placed in them fruit trees, vegetables, and grain for bread. Later, tiring of the work in caring for their gardens they create man. Man will care for their gardens and raise animals to be slaughtered and fed to the gods like fowl, sheep, and cattle. The Hebrews never question "why" their God, Yahweh-Elohim, had to be fed a meal twice a day, they just accepted the Mesopotamian (Sumerian) not that one of man's duties was to feed the gods. Christians understand that after their deaths the resurrected righteous will dwell with God in Eden and eat and drink once again. According to Christian belief the resurrected righteous will be given eternal life, they will be immortal like God. If they are immortal why should they need to eat and drink? This makes no sense and is but another example of religious nonsense! The Christian notion that after death, man will eat and drink once again is not a new concept. The Mesopotamians understood that after death the dead, good and evil, who dwelt in Edin-the-Underworld would continue to eat and drink (eat clay and drink muddy water in the underworld). Ezekiel describes in great detail the feeding of God in the post Exilic Messianic Age at the Temple (Ez 37:21-26; 44:7, 15)."
      How would you answer this? Particularly the question, *"Why does God "need" to consume food and drink?"*

Thanks in advance.

 

[jmcrae]

How would you answer this? Particularly the question, “Why does God “need” to consume food and drink?”

Thanks in advance.

Just off the top of my head, I would say, God is an immaterial being, but the sacrifices and offerings of food and drink that we make to God are not in order to feed physical flesh, but in order to create and maintain a relationship with Him.

Think about it - most of our relationships revolve around food. Families fall apart when they don’t observe meal times together. Friendships fall apart when we stop taking each other out for coffee and dessert, or inviting each other over for tea - or for beer and nachos, if we’re male. Surely these things are not required for survival - however, they are required for the smooth maintenance of good relationships.

If you want to get to know someone, you invite him out for lunch or for coffee. And what do you get for people you don’t know very well, as a gift? Cake, wine, liquor, chocolates - usually, some kind of food, right?

 

[marty30]

I came across this guy on YouTube “sapiensape” who claims to be “a former Christian, and now a Secular Humanist and Atheist.” He claims that the Old Testament is all based off of Sumerian mythology, the Exodus never happened etc. and his YouTube channel is filled with videos he made in which he attempts to ‘disprove’ the Bible.

 He had this video entitled *"Biblical Nonsense: The Feeding of God (The Mesopotamian Background)"*:

[youtube.com/watch?v=B-hcAuNxOo8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-hcAuNxOo8)

He says, "If God is immortal why does he "need" to have meals prepared for him by his priests daily? This video traces this concept to Sumerian (Mesopotamian) notions at Ur of the Chaldees, the home of Abraham." In the video he continues:
"God declares in the Holy Bible that his priests will daily prepare his food and drink for his consumption. The feeding of God begins at Mount Sinai with the establishment of the Aaronic priesthood. As is quite clear from the prophet Ezekiel God is to be fed by his priests for all of eternity upon the return from Exile. Why does God "need" to consume food and drink? This question is never asked in the Bible. The purpose of food and drink is to sustain mortal life. Mortals will die if they have nothing to eat and drink, but a God presented as being immortal shouldn't "need" food and drink daily to survive. The answer to this "mystery" is surprising: Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees in Mesopotamia and in this region it was believed in myths that the god had made man to care for their city-gardens in the Edin of Sumer and present them daily in sacrifices at temples the harvested food for the gods to dine upon. But wait a minute you say, aren't the gods immortal? They shouldn't need to eat in order to stay alive, should they? Wrong! The early myths have the gods possessing bodies of flesh, they can be killed and wind up after death in Edin-the Underworld. While alive in the Edin of Sumer, they need to eat to keep their fleshly bodies alive. Hence the reason they created their gardens of Edin and placed in them fruit trees, vegetables, and grain for bread. Later, tiring of the work in caring for their gardens they create man. Man will care for their gardens and raise animals to be slaughtered and fed to the gods like fowl, sheep, and cattle. The Hebrews never question "why" their God, Yahweh-Elohim, had to be fed a meal twice a day, they just accepted the Mesopotamian (Sumerian) not that one of man's duties was to feed the gods. Christians understand that after their deaths the resurrected righteous will dwell with God in Eden and eat and drink once again. According to Christian belief the resurrected righteous will be given eternal life, they will be immortal like God. If they are immortal why should they need to eat and drink? This makes no sense and is but another example of religious nonsense! The Christian notion that after death, man will eat and drink once again is not a new concept. The Mesopotamians understood that after death the dead, good and evil, who dwelt in Edin-the-Underworld would continue to eat and drink (eat clay and drink muddy water in the underworld). Ezekiel describes in great detail the feeding of God in the post Exilic Messianic Age at the Temple (Ez 37:21-26; 44:7, 15)."
      How would you answer this? Particularly the question, *"Why does God "need" to consume food and drink?"*

Thanks in advance.

ON a humous note I would tell this guy not to drink the kool-aid.

I would definitly pray for him. I will not even bother looking at his videos. Its obvious he is misrepresenting the scriptures. no where in the bible does it say that God needs to consume food and drink. If you read the verses he uses, they don’t say what he is trying to make them say.

If you can find any where in the old testament thatGod needs to consume food and that is the reason why he told the Israelites to make sacrifices then Ill admit my great great great grandfather was a monky.

 

[MichaelR]

Personally, I think you’d be wasting your breath (or typing fingers) either way. You will never persuade a person like that to your point of view, whether you’re debating religion or anything else. The very fact that they’ve gone to the bother to make the videos and publish them shows that he revels in the fact of kicking up a controversy. He’d probably just delight in getting a bite. You’ll say something, and then he’ll just find something else to say back, and so on back and forward.

However, just to muse on the subject for the sake of it, it seems very basic to take something so literally. Sacrifices and offerings have been a part of all sorts of religions over a long period of time, from ancient religions to modern practices. In my research and studies, I’ve not come across it being meant in a literal sense, that they need to feed the god or gods they worship, it’s about showing your love for something/someone by what you’re willing to give up for them. This was particularly pertinent in ancient religions because food was so valuable and scarce to the majority of people that it showed a huge commitment and love to give it up in honour of the god or gods they worshipped.

It sounds to me like he’s deliberately presenting something in a literal manner, knowing full well it’s not meant like that, just so he can cause a few waves and get himself noticed on youtube.

And on another note, just because there are similar ways of celebrating or worshipping or rituals across different religions, be it pre-Christianity or post, it doesn’t mean that it’s been ‘stolen’ as a ‘good idea’ from one to another. That’s like saying ‘Romeo and Juliet’ wasn’t created and crafted uniquely by Shakespeare’s genius just because other plays that had been written before happened to have a boy and girl who fall in love in it.

 

[Danno2281]

Food and drink are life sustaining gifts from God. The Israelites offered them to God, not because He needs them, but because they did, and from the bounty from which they received, they offered some in thanksgiving. These sacrifices did not originate with the Israelites or with the Sumerians: both Cain and Abel offered these sacrifices. They are offered in thanksgiving, and Christians offer the greatest gift, the one for which we are most grateful in the Great Thanksgiving (Eucharist) wherein we offer ourselves through, with, and in Him to our Eternal Father.

 

[marty30]

Food and drink are life sustaining gifts from God. The Israelites offered them to God, not because He needs them, but because they did, and from the bounty from which they received, they offered some in thanksgiving. These sacrifices did not originate with the Israelites or with the Sumerians: both Cain and Abel offered these sacrifices. They are offered in thanksgiving, and Christians offer the greatest gift, the one for which we are most grateful in the Great Thanksgiving (Eucharist) wherein we offer ourselves through, with, and in Him to our Eternal Father.

Amen!

 

[ddarko]

I came across this guy on YouTube “sapiensape” who claims to be “a former Christian, and now a Secular Humanist and Atheist.” He claims that the Old Testament is all based off of Sumerian mythology, the Exodus never happened etc. and his YouTube channel is filled with videos he made in which he attempts to ‘disprove’ the Bible.

 He had this video entitled *"Biblical Nonsense: The Feeding of God (The Mesopotamian Background)"*:

[youtube.com/watch?v=B-hcAuNxOo8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-hcAuNxOo8)

He says, "If God is immortal why does he "need" to have meals prepared for him by his priests daily? This video traces this concept to Sumerian (Mesopotamian) notions at Ur of the Chaldees, the home of Abraham." In the video he continues:
"God declares in the Holy Bible that his priests will daily prepare his food and drink for his consumption. The feeding of God begins at Mount Sinai with the establishment of the Aaronic priesthood. As is quite clear from the prophet Ezekiel God is to be fed by his priests for all of eternity upon the return from Exile. Why does God "need" to consume food and drink? This question is never asked in the Bible. The purpose of food and drink is to sustain mortal life. Mortals will die if they have nothing to eat and drink, but a God presented as being immortal shouldn't "need" food and drink daily to survive. The answer to this "mystery" is surprising: Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees in Mesopotamia and in this region it was believed in myths that the god had made man to care for their city-gardens in the Edin of Sumer and present them daily in sacrifices at temples the harvested food for the gods to an's duties was to feed the gods. Christians understand that after their deaths the resurrected righteous will dwell with God in Eden and eat and drink once again. According to Christian belief the resurrected righteous will be given eternal life, they will be immortal like God. If they are immortal why should they need to eat and drink? This makes no sense and is but another example of religious nonsense! The Christian notion that after death, man will eat and drink once again is not a new concept. The Mesopotamians understood that after death the dead, good and evil, who dwelt in Edin-the-Underworld would continue to eat and drink (eat clay and drink muddy water in the underworld). Ezekiel describes in great detail the feeding of God in the post Exilic Messianic Age at the Temple (Ez 37:21-26; 44:7, 15)."
      How would you answer this? Particularly the question, *"Why does God "need" to consume food and drink?"*

Thanks in advance.

Hi,

I have come across many of these type of positions where people try to show that there were other religions in the past and therefore it means that Christianity is a burrowed concept from others.

The problem with all these questions is that they do not realize that it is consistent with Christianity. For an example, Christians do believe that God foreshadowed his plan in every part of the world. Even in the old testament, we have foreshadowing of Christ and Mary. So there is no problem for an example that God prepared humanity by giving them similar stories of a son of a God etc. These stories would have prepared people to accept the true event when it happened.

So most of the people who raise such questions make an error in going from 1) There are similarities in ancient religions to Christianity to 2) Christianity is false. As you can see, Christianity it self affirms that God was planing to save all of humanity and he therefore must have foreshadowed it for all cultures in different ways to prepare them for the ultimate truth which is Christianity.

So now to your example in specific, if your friends historical knowledge of Sumerian mythology is indeed accurate, this could demonstrates a situation where God prepared Sumerians for a greater truth of offering Christ as ransom for our sins 2000 years later. Your friend also seems to make the misunderstanding that food offered to God was to feed him when it was actually a way of showing gratitude/atonement/etc depending on the context. The Sumerian belief was thus imperfect compared to Christianity.

I hope this clarifies this issue for you. Please let me know if it doesn’t

God Bless

 

[MichaelR]

Good point.

I also think it’s only natural that similar beliefs and rituals should emerge between religions. If you think of how empires and people took over one after each other, and the merging of culture. Food offerings weren’t only given as respect to deities, but also to lords and higher ranking figures, or those that owned the land they lived on. It was the highest form of respect that could be shown, because food was so precious.

And you’re absolutely right, just because there’s similarities, it doesn’t mean one was ‘stolen’ from the other.

I mean, from my research and studies, I do believe that there are undeniable similarities between different religions and countries. However, that doesn’t mean I think there is a deliberate take over from one to the other, and it’s not right to believe that, from a historian’s point of view, without evidence that it was the case, otherwise it is assumption. In the case of Roman and Greek religion for example, there is written evidence to show the intentional adoption of Greek religion and culture into the ancient Roman society, it was political. But personally, I’ve not seen proof of it from the Catholic religion taking from others. And to assume that it is the case without evidence makes such claims unfounded, and so, in my view, historically inaccurate. I wouldn’t touch it from an academic point of view, put it that way, so it’s really rather silly to make such bold claims.

I know some similarities made it easier for conversion between religions. For example, when many pagans saw how Mary Mother of God was revered by the ‘new’ Christian believers, they saw it in the same light as how they had revered the Mother in the pagan religion. This made many pagans questions the very essence of religion and beliefs…were they in fact worshipping the same spirit of goodness but in different ways and with differing teachings? This made it easier for some pagans to accept Christianity, because they could identify with it, and so it made it far less frightening, and more approachable, and so, slowly but surely, some started to convert. There is supported by historical studies, just because this, in one way, was a fortunate point of understanding, at no point does that mean it was intentionally adopted by Christians just to lure pagans over, it was just a place of common ground that made it easier for people to learn from each other…that’s the difference.

The other difficulty, from an academic point of view, is that there is such little written evidence from the ancient, classical, dark and even middle ages in some cases. So much of the culture and history was passed from mouth to mouth, and so by the time it is recorded you have muddled and merged and changed and altered stories and accounts.

I think you’ve got yourself an attention seeker rather than anything else.