Help! - BIG Moral Dilemna re: Vasectomy

[Lil_Cat]

By the way, OP, there are much better medications for nausea and vomiting these days. This one, for example, has almost no side effects and works like magic. I see it is used off-label for hyperemesis gravidarium, but there may be others like it that are known to be safe for your wife’s condition.

Ondansetron

I submit that you and your wife need to go see a doctor about this problem - I think she could get help. As for the family planning aspect, there is NFP which many people have used with great success.

Sorry, but Zofran/Ondansetron sucks. I am on it twice a day to control nausea (it doesn’t work like magic) and I am 20 weeks along. There are side effects that are unpleasant. I won’t go into them here, but its not the magic cure-all pill people tout it is.

 

[agapewolf]

What method of NFP did you use? What did your instructor say when you showed them your charts?

This is what I’m interested in. I believe he said “they tried NFP”.

One does not “Try” nfp.

 

[1ke]

From what I understand a couple can mutually agree to complete abstinence if they feel like it would be the best thing for their health/relationship/etc. However, if one person decides they want to resume relations isn’t the other morally obligated to comply? If that’s the case lets say they agree on abstinence. A few years later he decides he doesn’t want to live like that anymore, but out of fear for her life she doesn’t want to have sex. Is she sinning, or is he being selfish, or is it both? What would a priest advise? In that case would strict NFP be a good compromise? Or if she wouldn’t compromise would it be grounds for an annulment?

Yes, post ovulatory relations using NFP charting would be a good compromise.

I would not presume to say if either of them is sinning in the withholding/wanting relations department. I think it depends entirely on how serious her situation is. It is not actually life threatening, more like life disrupting (and care must be taken regarding dehydration, etc). So, is she really within her rights to withhold completely? probably not, but her mental state might diminish that. is he within his rights to ask for sex? probably. but would he have culpability in driving his wife over the edge by demanding sex if she is that fragile? probably. are they both culpable if thgey don’t re-examine her condition and newtreatment options periodically? probably. all hypothetical here.

No, bad behavior (refusing sex, asking for sex, demanding a vasectomy, threatening divorce) is not grounds for nullity. Nullity means a defect or impediment existed at the time the vows were exchanged.

Certainly, hypothetically speaking, this divorce-bomb she seems to continually be dropping could be evidence in hindsight of some sort of intention against permanence (i.e. I do until I don’t). But, that would have to be provable, like the spouse actually told people before they got married something like if “things don’t work out I can always get divorced.” But, it can also be evidence of someone using poor communication skills and blackmail to get their way-- not evidence of nullity, just evidence of bad behavior.

 

[FightingFat]

It is for this reason that a previous poster is off track with their analysis of the object, intention, etc. These must be taken together, and a good intention cannot make an intrinsically evil act a moral good. It is still an evil act no matter why you are trying to justify doing it.

to be fair, I think I did say that

 

[defenderoftruth]

This is what I’m interested in. I believe he said “they tried NFP”.

One does not “Try” nfp.

I’m a SHE not a “he”. We tried abstinence first. Then I read up on NFP I didn’t go to a class but they have manuals ya know. Anyway I tried the keeping track of my temperature from every morning, and tracking my mucus AND breastfeeding constantly. FAILURE.

I know it’s hard for you “NFP is a godsend” people to believe but guess what it doesn’t always work that’s why it’s still an acceptable form of planning for the Roman Catholic church because it’s still leaves life OPEN ie you can still get pregnant.

Try means we did it and it failed what else would you call it?

Geez you people…

 

[defenderoftruth]

What method of NFP did you use? What did your instructor say when you showed them your charts?

hahahahaa…if I had an instructor what could they say?! “Congratulations”? or “well I guess it was in God’s plan to give you another.”

Look I love my kids and I’m glad I have them BUT all this “NFP is so great” garbage is totally annoying. Especially when there are people out there that KNOW it fails sometimes but hey it couldn’t be the method it’s gotta be the people right?!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Sorry, but Zofran/Ondansetron sucks. I am on it twice a day to control nausea (it doesn’t work like magic) and I am 20 weeks along. There are side effects that are unpleasant. I won’t go into them here, but its not the magic cure-all pill people tout it is.

Never said it was a cure-all. Your experience isn’t everyone’s experience, and there are other drugs to try as well.

I still recommend that this couple goes to a doctor, or couple of doctors, to see what can be done to ameliorate the original problem. Her problem is serious but medical doctors have treatments for lots of things.

 

[1ke]

hahahahaa…if I had an instructor what could they say?! “Congratulations”? or “well I guess it was in God’s plan to give you another.”

If you had an instructor, you would know that they can review your charts and find out where the error occurred.

An instructor also means you actually learned a method of NFP. Which you didn’t. So stop saying NFP didn’t work for you when you didn’t actually use NFP.

Look I love my kids and I’m glad I have them BUT all this “NFP is so great” garbage is totally annoying.

I don’t believe I, or anyone else on this thread, has said “NFP is so great”. It is one of two moral options. There are four methods of NFP from which the OP can choose.

Oh, but while we are on the topic, yes NFP is great and no it is not garbage.

Especially when there are people out there that KNOW it fails sometimes but hey it couldn’t be the method it’s gotta be the people right?!

No, not at all. There are some, very rare, instances of unexplainable pregnancy when charts are reviewed. HOWEVER, what is garbage and annoying is people who claim to have used NFP when actually they did NOT.

If you cannot tell us what method you used and what a review of your charts revealed vis-a-vis pregnancy when following the rules then don’t say you were using NFP. You weren’t.

 

[HouseArrest]

I’m a SHE not a “he”. We tried abstinence first. Then I read up on NFP I didn’t go to a class but they have manuals ya know. Anyway I tried the keeping track of my temperature from every morning, and tracking my mucus AND breastfeeding constantly. FAILURE.

I know it’s hard for you “NFP is a godsend” people to believe but guess what it doesn’t always work that’s why it’s still an acceptable form of planning for the Roman Catholic church because it’s still leaves life OPEN ie you can still get pregnant.

Try means we did it and it failed what else would you call it?

Geez you people…

I think agapewolf was referring to the OP when he quoted them “trying NFP”.

 

[agapewolf]

I’m a SHE not a “he”. We tried abstinence first. Then I read up on NFP I didn’t go to a class but they have manuals ya know. Anyway I tried the keeping track of my temperature from every morning, and tracking my mucus AND breastfeeding constantly. FAILURE.

I know it’s hard for you “NFP is a godsend” people to believe but guess what it doesn’t always work that’s why it’s still an acceptable form of planning for the Roman Catholic church because it’s still leaves life OPEN ie you can still get pregnant.

Try means we did it and it failed what else would you call it?

Geez you people…

WHOA…the opening post said “I AM A MARRIED MAN”
That is a “he”.

and don’t “you people” me.

but if you want to make this about you, you don’t “try” keeping track of temp and mucous and consider it doing nfp. That is exactly my point.

I know every single day if I did track my mucous or if there was a time that I might of have missed something. Every. Single. Time. It’s not “trying”. If the best way to describe what you did was “Trying” to keep track, then you weren’t doing NFP correctly.

 

[HouseArrest]

No.

Something that is intrinsically evil cannot ever be moral under any circumstances. Intrinsic-- in the very act itself-- it is evil.

So, no, the Church cannot dispense a person from a mortal sin.

It is for this reason that a previous poster is off track with their analysis of the object, intention, etc. These must be taken together, and a good intention cannot make an intrinsically evil act a moral good. It is still an evil act no matter why you are trying to justify doing it.

I would suggest that this is NOT the root of the problem, but only a symptom. Someone who threatens divorce if they don’t get their way (regardless of what it is they are trying to get) has a deeper problem than just the surface issue. That is not a way to behave in a marriage.

If you do not want to use NFP, you can abstain completely.

What you cannot do is offend God and put your soul in jeopardy.

The sad thing is, OP, if you shop around enough, you can probably get a priest to tell you that your situation is different, and that it is okay to get the vasectomy. It isn’t. And it is so sad when people are led astray by the very people they are responsible for helping.

 

[Castello]

I’m a SHE not a “he”. We tried abstinence first. Then I read up on NFP I didn’t go to a class but they have manuals ya know. Anyway I tried the keeping track of my temperature from every morning, and tracking my mucus AND breastfeeding constantly. FAILURE.

I know it’s hard for you “NFP is a godsend” people to believe but guess what it doesn’t always work that’s why it’s still an acceptable form of planning for the Roman Catholic church because it’s still leaves life OPEN ie you can still get pregnant.

Try means we did it and it failed what else would you call it?

Geez you people…

What you describe above is not any of the NFP methods that I am aware of. Sounds as if you did some sort of DIY wing it method then tossed caution to the wind.

BTW - God’s laws of sexuality in marriage apply to everyone not just “Roman” Catholics.

 

[Lil_Cat]

Never said it was a cure-all. Your experience isn’t everyone’s experience, and there are other drugs to try as well.

I still recommend that this couple goes to a doctor, or couple of doctors, to see what can be done to ameliorate the original problem. Her problem is serious but medical doctors have treatments for lots of things.

There isn’t a cure for HG ( hyperemesis.org ), but there is prevention. Don’t get pregnant. This is why the OP started the thread.

As a Catholic I can’t advise him to go through with the vasectomy, but his concern for his wife is very real. It’s miserable.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

There isn’t a cure for HG ( hyperemesis.org ), but there is prevention. Don’t get pregnant. This is why the OP started the thread.

As a Catholic I can’t advise him to go through with the vasectomy, but his concern for his wife is very real. It’s miserable.

Did I say cure? Where did I mention a cure? I said the condition can be ameliorated. Miserable is one thing, life-threatening is another.

I had all day morning sickness for 3 mos with my 1st, 4 mos. with my 2nd. I didn’t vomit but a few times. But I couldn’t eat much and had to force myself for the sake of the baby. I know it’s miserable to feel sick all day.

The OP and his wife should see a doctor, and another one for at least one second opinion. This can be approached in other ways, rather than commit mortal sin.

 

[dachsiemom2]

Why does she insist you do something? Why doesn’t she?

Believe me, I am not in favor of either procedure, but I find it curious when one spouse insists the other do something.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[heart4home]

I’m a SHE not a “he”. We tried abstinence first. Then I read up on NFP **I didn’t go to a class but they have manuals ya know. **Anyway I tried the keeping track of my temperature from every morning, and tracking my mucus AND breastfeeding constantly. FAILURE.

I know it’s hard for you “NFP is a godsend” people to believe but guess what it doesn’t always work that’s why it’s still an acceptable form of planning for the Roman Catholic church because it’s still leaves life OPEN ie you can still get pregnant.

Try means we did it and it failed what else would you call it?

Geez you people…

There are manuals for lots of things, and text books and the internet too, but sometimes what you need is a real live person, a teacher or an instructor, especially when you don’t seem to be getting it right on your own.

So before you give the thumbs down on it, or make snide remarks such as “I know it’s hard for you 'NFP is a godsend” people to believe"… why don’t you actually give it a try with an educated instructor who can give you feed back on your personal situation, which no manual can do.

I sure wouldn’t trust a doctor to take care of me, who had only read a manual but had no hands on experience. If getting pregnant is a life or death matter, or even if it’s not, but you need to avoid for whatever reason, I would think getting an actual educated person on the subject to help would be the prudent and wise thing to do.

 

[defenderoftruth]

What you describe above is not any of the NFP methods that I am aware of. Sounds as if you did some sort of DIY wing it method then tossed caution to the wind.

BTW - God’s laws of sexuality in marriage apply to everyone not just “Roman” Catholics.

Really? So you’ve never heard of checking the mucus consistancy? Or checking your temperature every morning before getting out of bed? Oh and I love you nasty “Sounds as if you did some sort of DIY wing it method then tossed caution to the wind.” comment that was especially nice.

Not everyone is bound by the pope whether you like it or not. According to many on this board sodomy in marriage is ok as long as it’s finished in the vagina too which sorry to say I don’t see in scripture or tradition only in some RC sex books. So you think whatever book is ok with CAF or Fr. Vincent Serpa is ok with God and is God’s law of sexaulity eh? Whatever. Give the OP whatever advice you want I’m done with the condescending nasty remarks from people that REFUSE to believe NFP fails sometimes.

Bye have fun.

 

[heart4home]

Really? So you’ve never heard of checking the mucus consistancy? Or checking your temperature every morning before getting out of bed? Oh and I love you nasty “Sounds as if you did some sort of DIY wing it method then tossed caution to the wind.” comment that was especially nice.

Not everyone is bound by the pope whether you like it or not. According to many on this board sodomy in marriage is ok as long as it’s finished in the vagina too which sorry to say I don’t see in scripture or tradition only in some RC sex books. So you think whatever book is ok with CAF or Fr. Vincent Serpa is ok with God and is God’s law of sexaulity eh? Whatever. Give the OP whatever advice you want I’m done with the condescending nasty remarks from people that REFUSE to believe NFP fails sometimes.

Bye have fun.

Those are certainly parts of some NFP methods, but it is the interpreting of charts and the other variances like breastfeeding, that really require a woman to sit with an instructor and learn what her chart is saying exactly.

You know NFP doesn’t fail even when pregnancy occurs. When a couple chooses to use NFP methods it is with full awareness that they are choosing to be open to life and are willing to accept a child God may have planned for this world. . If you want to be 100% sure there will be no pregnancy or children, then abstinence is the only way to go.