HELP! Bishop Strossmayer's speech of 1870!

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St.Eric

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If you are not familiar, here is a link to Bishop Strossmayer’s speech at Vatican I in 1870-

mtc.org/bishop_s.html

I am currently in discusions with my biological brother (a reformed protestant) as to the truthfullness of the Catholic church. He sent me the speech from the Bishop to further prove his case that the RCC is the “whore of babylon” and teaches doctrines of men. I have read the speech and could refute it point by point but do not have the time- Can anyone point me to a quick and concise source that addresses this speech? Something from Jimmy Akin, Patrick Madrid, Karl Keating, etc?

Thanks for the help!
 
Eric << Can anyone point me to a quick and concise source that addresses this speech? Something from Jimmy Akin, Patrick Madrid, Karl Keating, etc? >>

Yes, I think Keating addresses this in Cath and Fund. The speech is a 19th century forgery, here is the evidence. Other forgeries and hoaxes on Sean’s page.

Phil P
 
Thanks for the links Phil. They proved useful! It’s funny, according to the New Advent, Strossmayer eventually came full-circle, embracing the Holy See and receiving a pillium from the pope. Quite the opposite as to what the anti-Catholics would have folks believe.
 
St.Eric said:
Thanks for the links Phil. They proved useful! It’s funny, according to the New Advent, Strossmayer eventually came full-circle, embracing the Holy See and receiving a pillium from the pope. Quite the opposite as to what the anti-Catholics would have folks believe.
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I think you mean “pallium,” and while I know nothing of this particular speech or how genuine it might be, the dogma of papal infallibility did not “pass” without a great deal of controversy and dissenting opinion, and as is well known it resulted in schism (the so-called “Old Catholic” churches). Please do not go home to your spouse tonight and say “Jbuck919 is a heretic.” I am simply reporting a fact. In contrast (I have to imagine at least), the two Marian doctrines that have been defined under papal infallibility would probably have passed without a dissenting voice if they had been on the conciliar agenda.; (They were already of long standing, just not formally defined.)

The fact that the Holy Spirit evidently does not move ecumenical councils to behave in robotic fashion should be taken into account when matters of less dogmatic weight like celibacy come up for discussion. There are a lot of posters here who see only black and white, when it is our God-given nature once in a while to recognize a shade of gray.
 
JBuck << the dogma of papal infallibility did not “pass” without a great deal of controversy and dissenting opinion >>

What I understand is the “dissent” was not over the definition of papal infallibility itself, but the timing of the definition, or whether it was “opportune” to define it. These “dissenters” were known as “inopportunists” at the Council. Cardinal Newman was one of those, along with bishop Dupanloup.

“I have no difficulty in this matter [of the definition]; I have written and spoken only against the opportuneness of the definition. As to the doctrine, I have always professed it, not only in my heart, but in public writings…And I adhere to it again.” (Dupanloup, from Cuthbert Butler, The Vatican Council [1930], page 119)

A complete history of Vatican I is found in Cuthbert Butler’s The Vatican Council 1869-1870 (originally 1930 in two volumes, but republished as one volume), which is summarized by B.C. Butler in his response to the Anglican George Salmon. This is chapter 6 on my site here:

Reply to Salmon: Chapter 6 on the Vatican Council

Phil P
 
Hi that speech is simply a fraud, it never happened.

It was one of the things made up by JOHANN JOSEPH IGNAZ VON DOLLINGER
1911encyclopedia.org/Johann_Joseph_Ignaz_Von_Dollinger

If you want to do research into it, look in these books,

The first age of Christianity and the church,
Author: Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von, 1799-1890.; Oxenham, Henry Nutcombe,

The Pope and the Council,
Author: Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von, 1799-1890.; Huber, Johannes,

Letters from Rome on the Council,
Author: Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von, 1799-1890.

Dr. J.J.I. von Döllinger’s Fables respecting the popes in the Middle Ages /
Author: Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von, 1799-1890.;

Fables respecting the popes in the Middle Ages;
a contribution to ecclesiastical history. /
Author: Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von, 1799-1890.;

Anti-Janus:
an historico-theological criticism of the work entitled “The pope and the Council,” by Janus.
Author: Hergenröther, Joseph, 1824-1890.; Robertson, James Burton,
Publication: Dublin, W.B. Kelly; New York, Catholic Pub. Society, 1870

Declarations and letters on the Vatican decrees, 1869-1887.
Author: Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von, 1799-1890.

The church and the churches :
or, The papacy and the temporal power : an historical and political review /
Author: Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von, 1799-1890.

Alfred Plummer :
conversations with Dr. Döllinger, 1870-1890 /
Author: Plummer, Alfred, 1841-1926.; Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von,; Boudens, Robrecht., and others
Publication: Leuven, Belgium : Leuven University Press :

A vindication of the perogatives of the Holy See;
being a refutation of the work entitled “The Pope and the Council,” by Janus.
Author: Hergenröther, Joseph, 1824-1890.; Robertson, James Burton,

Döllinger on the infallibility of the Pope :
a letter addressed to the Archbishop of Munich /
Author: Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von, 1799-1890.

Ignaz von Doellinger, 1864-1874 : between Bismark and the Holy See /
Author: Cole, John Edward. Publication: 1988 Dissertation: Thesis (M.A.)–University of Virginia, 1988.

Döllinger on the infallibility of the Pope
a letter addressed to the Archbishop of Munich /
Author: Döllinger, Johann Joseph Ignaz von, 1799-1890.
 
Thanks everyone for the info. It has helped. Phil- I really like your website and I will be a regular visitor there. Keep up the good work. I especially appriciate the link to Patty Patrtick Bonds and here conversion. I can just image how difficult the conversion was for her, and I can also image her brother’s angst over the matter. I really pray for James, I pray that the Lord penetrates his heart and the scales fall from his eyes! I see so many parallels to him and St. Paul. James is spiritually murdering many Catholics, I pray one day the Lord strikes him down and reveals the truth to him. I also pray for Fred Phelps and his congregation!

Anyway, thanks again everyone!

Pax Vobiscum
 
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