Help: Catechism of The Catholic Church - Politically Correct?

[barsapp]

USCatholic:

I’m still waiting for an explanation.

”Do you deny the doctrine of infallibility?”

Guys, please, do not blow stuff out of proportion… It is clear that Islam is a heresy, and nothing more than that. To historically judge it, we only have to consider what happened to the Church where Islam prevailed. The Church disappeared. So, the discussion whether Islam worships the true God or not, seems pointless. The only true God is Christ. Deny Christ as the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, you worship a false god, whatever you want to call him…

Saying the above, it is also true that the Catechism of the Catholic Church could expose its contents in different ways according to the historical “circumstances”.

I mean: it is not the same to teach the Catechism in an age of predominance, than in times as the present ones. These are times of secularism, atheism, relativism, when again the Holy Church is a minority with powerful enemies against Her. So, nowadays hard times, may be the Church wants to underline “religion in general” over “atheism”, “spiritual life” over “materialism”. So the fight nowadays could be “religion” against “atheism”. It is interesting to note that in many United Nations Conferences on, for example, “human rights”, the Vatican coincided with the Islamic Republic of Iran, and other Islamic States, on their rejection of abortion as a “human right”. Another issue to take into account is the protection of Catholic minorities in those Islamic countries.

 

[1ke]

”Do you deny the doctrine of infallibility?”

Guys, please, do not blow stuff out of proportion… It is clear that Islam is a heresy, and nothing more than that. To historically judge it, we only have to consider what happened to the Church where Islam prevailed. The Church disappeared. So, the discussion whether Islam worships the true God or not, seems pointless. The only true God is Christ. Deny Christ as the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, you worship a false god, whatever you want to call him…

Saying the above, it is also true that the Catechism of the Catholic Church could expose its contents in different ways according to the historical “circumstances”.

I mean: it is not the same to teach the Catechism in an age of predominance, than in times as the present ones. These are times of secularism, atheism, relativism, when again the Holy Church is a minority with powerful enemies against Her. So, nowadays hard times, may be the Church wants to underline “religion in general” over “atheism”, “spiritual life” over “materialism”. So the fight nowadays could be “religion” against “atheism”. It is interesting to note that in many United Nations Conferences on, for example, “human rights”, the Vatican coincided with the Islamic Republic of Iran, and other Islamic States, on their rejection of abortion as a “human right”. Another issue to take into account is the protection of Catholic minorities in those Islamic countries.

Yes we recognize Islam is a heresy, I said that several times in my posts. However, that does not mean they worship a “false god” in the sense you mean-- do the Jews? No, of course not. They also deny the Trinity and that Christ was the Messiah and that he was divine. Yet, we do not claim the Jews worship a “false god”.

I am not the one who proposed that the church was teaching “lies”.

 

[1ke]

Having read the Koran I can tell you that it is certainly NOT the same god they worship!!!

OUR God would NEVER call for Muslims to go to war against innocent Jews and Christians, as “allah” does.

My husband might have become Catholic except he read that little sentiment about how Muslims are on the path to salvation and about had triplet cows
If ALLAH AND GOD ARE THE SAME, WHY DO THEY HATE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS???

Don’t believe me? READ the Koran.

Islam is a HORRIBLE RELIGION.

Um, no one said the Koran was inspired or taught correct doctrine.

But, before you go saying “our God would never…” better read the OT and all the passages that atheists use against Christians where God explicitly calls the Jews to war and to slaughter innocent women and children, not just combatants. Not a big stretch as to where Muhammed got his ideas, flawed as they are.

Your husband does not understand the entire body of Catholic teaching in this regard or he wouldn’t have had a cow about anything.

 

[rwoehmke]

Lets look at what these three religions say about God(Allah, Jahweh). All three say they follow the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Is there more than one God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? I don’t hardly think so. Is the triune God of the Christians in the New Testament, the same God found in the Old Testament?
As my Irish mother-in-law used to say,“You better believe it!” Maybe some do not have the whole truth about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob but why denigrate what they do have in order to keep the old prejudices alive. Rather pray that they come to the fullness of truth and recognize that their vision of God is limited and come fully into the one Church founded by Jesus Christ Our Lord, who was himself a Jew. From the day of creation man has come to better understand God our creator more fully as the centuries passed. Jesus came and really updated us(so to speak) and even since the year of His death the Church, His mystical body has continued to grow in its understanding of all we were taught. Jesus even stated that the Holy Spirit would do this for us. He never stated that the Holy Spirit would do it for a while and then freeze everything in after the Council of Trent. Some of us like the Democrats need to learn to move on.

 

[J.W.B]

RSiscoe:

Your instincts are correct. The Mulsims, who deny the Trinity and the Divinity of Jesus, do not worship the same God as us. They have invented a new God, which does not correspond to reality.

They belong to a false religion which is a violation of the first commandment. Why is it a violation of the first commandment? Because the first commandment says “I am the Lord your God: thou shalt have no strange gods before me”.

If the Muslims truly worshipped the same God as we do, they would not be in violation of that commandment… yet they are. When a person rejects the truth about God, and believes false things about God (as the Muslims do), they do not worship the true God. They worship a different god.

I have some advice for you and anyone else who cares to listen. If you want to learn the undiluted Catholic faith, read ANY Catechism published before the year 1960.

I agree because Christ said “whoever denies me DENIES the ONE who sent me.”

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

USCatholic:

Will some priest, any religious, anybody help me understand this one.

As I was flipping the pages of our Catechism, I found this, and I quote:

841- The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."

It boggles my mind.

Is the Church playing politics?

I’d rather see the Church keeping it quiet rather than uttering lies, or to put it mildly, “being politically correct.”

We all know, at least those who studied comparative religions, that the Judeo-Christian God, is NOT the same muslim god (if they have one to begin with).

And of course I’m positive that those who wrote this paragraph about Islam, know exactly what I am talking about.

It’s a quotation from the decree Nostra Aetate:​

1. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
   Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom. ##

So, any explanation, any help from the members or moderators/administrators of this message board?

By the way, I have other quotes, concerning other subjects, that don’t make sense to me, but I’ll get to this later.

I don’t see a problem with it - God is not altered by our beliefs about Him, so He is unchanged even though Muslims & Christians differ in their beliefs about Him. So God is the same for both, from one POV - it is our beliefs about God that differ or are contradictory: God is not the same as what different groups believe about God.​

Equally, there are points of contact between us, and it would be as wrong to deny what is common to both as to say that Catholics & Muslims hold all the beliefs.

It’s a conciliatory passage in a conciliatory document - but that does not make it “politically correct” - it makes it Pauline: he said “Be reconciled to God” - and the Council was heeding that. It’s better than dissing 80% of the human race for not being Catholic; which was the earlier tactic. Telling people their dearest beliefs are filth is not going to win anyone; a change was long overdue, IMO. So Vatican II made it. ##

 

[didymus]

Della:

If you are going to limit responses to priests or religious (who may not be all that knowledgeable in this area, believe it or not) you won’t get many responses on this board.

Also, what god do you think the Muslims worship? I know there was some ancient god worshiped by people in the ME. But, as I understand it, Mohamed preached about the one God, Allah (the only word for God in Arabic). Although his theology is skewed–it’s a heresy of Christianity, in fact.

Personally I on’tbelieve that Allah is the same as God Who revealed Himself in the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures.
Muhammed basically plagiarised them, threw in chuinks of Arab tribal religions and some stuff he made up as he went along.
Even Muhammed doesn’t say he got the Koran directly from God, he claims the angel dictated it to him. For all I know he was a schizo hearing voices or Satan was dictating it.