HELP! Catholic degeneration

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031064

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I need some help and reassurance. Lately I’ve been lamenting over the loss of traditions in our Church and the effects of the ‘spirit of Vatican II’. It’s not even the novus ordo- I like it when it’s nice and pious but it’s mostly the priests and laypeople in the Church who think they, as ‘Catholics’, have the ‘right’ to innovate our liturgy, take out any mention of the BVM, build ugly churches, use hideous sacred vessels, abuse the liturgy, wear ‘spirit of V2’ vestments, etc. And after thinking for a little while I look at the Orthodox and ask myself maybe is it them? are they the real Faith? now, I must say that the TLM is an exception for me- it certainly measures up to the Divine Liturgy. but what about the others stuff- vestments, use of incense, veneration of Mary etc.- you don’t find that in the Novus Ordo at all- and that liturgy is a massive component of the Church.

One big thing for me is that I see a total protestantisation of our Church. For example, the Jubilee Church in rome (images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/jubilee/jubilee1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/jubilee/index.htm&h=285&w=430&sz=27&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=phZuJSKD4bkKCM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJubilee%2BChurch%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-ca:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7DACA%26sa%3DN)). Look at this and then compare it to the new Orthodox church in Serbia (kosovo.net/news/archive/2005/November_10/1.html)). the Orthodox have just done these things so much better- the vestments, music, liturgy etc- it’s more like heaven to me. And then I think it, “It would be simple to convert.”

Can someone pls just reassure me. I know the Catholic church is Truth, but I just hate the direction I see it going- modern this, modern that. Pls. help I’m really sad and struggling over this.
 
I’m praying for you. I’ve felt the same too sometimes.
Remember the words of Our Lord to Peter. “…the gates of hell will not prevail.”

Keep on praying.:gopray:
 
031064 said:
Can someone pls just reassure me. I know the Catholic church is Truth, but I just hate the direction I see it going- modern this, modern that. Pls. help I’m really sad and struggling over this.
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If you know the Catholic church is Truth, then that’s a good starting point. Know that and live it.

Much of what you say you don’t like is externals – what the building looks like, what the vestments look like, etc. That’s not Truth, it’s decoration.

Perhaps it would help to figure out what things you can change and make an effort to change them. If you want incense, why not ask for it? I love it myself and fortunately my parish uses it frequently – all through the Easter season, for example, and at solemnities. Ask your priest to consider it.

I’m trying to think when Mary is the center of attention other than on Marian feast days. A May crowning, perhaps? Why don’t you offer to organize one? You have plenty of time to plan.

I’m a great believer in asking for things I want – within reason, of course – and offering to help with them in whatever ways I can.
 
The thing is I’m only 16 and don’t think my priest would react kindly to that. Also, my parents won’t drive me to Church so I have to walk- it’s the closest one. I don’t know what to do. These ‘externals’ are really important to my spirituality- the mass should be like heaven on earth and, at my Church, it’s not. We have two almost folk singers as a choir and almost everyone receives communion despite the fact that (and yes I have data supporting this) 25% of the parish foes to confession- it’s these things that bug me. I just don’t know what to do.
 
you might find some help by learning to distinguish between externals–vestments, music etc.–and essentials–the sacramental signs, symbols and actions that are require for validity. Rather than spending time at Mass looking for abuses, focus on the prayers and actions and above all Christ’s loving action for us. Do not allow yourself to be disturbed by anything that does not meet your expectations. The fact that you are considering leaving the Church over non-essentials is a strong evidence of the damage Satan can do when we disorder our priorities.

Another error is confusing actions of some Catholics, even some priests, with “the Church is disintegrating.” That thinking makes Jesus a liar, who promised us the gates of hell would not prevail against us.
 
031064 said:
I don’t know what to do. These ‘externals’ are really important to my spirituality- the mass should be like heaven on earth and, at my Church, it’s not.
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Oh, my dear young friend, my heart aches for you. You are longing for something that cannot be achieved; the Church here on earth is never going to be “like heaven,” because she is made up of us failed mortals. Even at our best, we are not “like heaven,” and your longing soul knows that. It is a great gift that you have been given – the desire for heaven – now you must be patient with yourself, with others, and with our Holy Mother Church to find what your vocation is to be here on our sadly imperfect earth to find your way there to the perfect domain God has waiting for us. God bless you . . .
 
I couldn’t leave the Church because of these things because that would be dumb to leave the Church for the little things. But in my mind church is meant to be solemn and pious like it used to be. Sometimes I just think 'What is V2 never happened, wouldn’t it be great?"
 
031064 said:
Can someone pls just reassure me. I know the Catholic church is Truth, but I just hate the direction I see it going- modern this, modern that. Pls. help I’m really sad and struggling over this.
Click to expand...
Relying on externals for comfort is a losing proposition. I know that your youth requires you to look at many things with questions in your mind. Yet the greatest gift I can give to you is to remind you to consider the true needs and reality of the entire Catholic Church throughout the world. Imagine, if you will, that you are a Catholic in China or in Haiti or even in Eastern Europe. How would it be to have to be concerned whether or not your only local priest would be arrested on his way to celebrate Mass - and then be imprisoned for many years; what if you knew that in your absence form home (your shack) for Mass, your elderly parents and grandparents might be robbed of their few possessions; imagine that you might get to Mass but only if the road had been fully cleared of land mines from the last war-actions.

I hope you get my point. Our Church suffers and in that suffering, we are called to be grateful for our freedom to worship; we are not called to demand or expect that all the accidentals of worship fit our favorite preferences. That we are so free to adore God in the essentials of the Mass, almost any time and anywhere in this country, should be the center of our faithfulnesss and thanksgiving. (Definitely, my two cents.) If you are less than comforted by attendance at your local Masses, offer it up for those Catholics who can seldom attend any Mass.
 
031064 said:
I couldn’t leave the Church because of these things because that would be dumb to leave the Church for the little things. But in my mind church is meant to be solemn and pious like it used to be. Sometimes I just think 'What is V2 never happened, wouldn’t it be great?"
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I am also 16.

No, it wouldn’t be great. You couldn’t understand what the priest was saying during the liturgy, and he’d probably be disconnected from the congregation. The problem with the Vatican II is that some people took and ran with it. I dislike my former church’s teen Mass because of the Christian Rock that they played. People would come to the Mass because they liked the music, and not because of their faith. I’ve never felt that Christian Rock music is a very sincere method of worship, and I probably never will. The only reason I went to it instead of the eleven o’clock Mass was because of the Youth Group.

Don’t give up hope.
 
031064 said:
I couldn’t leave the Church because of these things because that would be dumb to leave the Church for the little things. But in my mind church is meant to be solemn and pious like it used to be. Sometimes I just think 'What is V2 never happened, wouldn’t it be great?"
Click to expand...
I believe that Vatican II was held and conducted under the inspiration and guidanc eof the Holy Spirit so I can’t imagine any possibility that begins: what if Vatican II had never happened …?

There are plenty of times withing the eliturgical year for all to reflect in piety and silence; e.g., Advent and Lent come to mind - and the feasts of Holy Week, especially. However, the Church of pre-Vatican II held a common perception that seems lacking on both of sides of the aisle (at times) these days. That is, Catholics worshipped with out voicing personal complaints.

WW II had ended so recently, Communism ruled half the woprld; Catholics in the West seemed to be very THANKFUL that we were allowed the freedom to worship at all. There were NO cries of “I want this” and “I prefer that.” These days, it might do all of us a lot of good to imagine that we were living as Catholics for even one week, right now, in China. Reality check!
 
When I was about 16 I ran into the same problem- I was attending a very modern NO Church, miserable with the abysmal liturgy, with one eye nostalgically stuck in the 50’s and another eyeing the Orthodox Church with envy at their ability to retain beauty.

You need to find a new Church ASAP- an unhealthy NO Church is detrimental to your Faith. I was so close to joining Eastern Orthodoxy that I signed up for their equivalent of Catechism classes for converting. “Sticking it out” at your local Church will make things worse over time and may even lead to apostasy. PM me if you’d like
 
Stop dwelling on all the miseries of life. Forget about yourself and start serving others. Reach out with the love of Christ and His Mother and help other people. There are a lot of people in this world who need someone to reach out to them.

A sixteen year-old is welcome at soup kitchens, food pantries, rescue missions, and other local organizations that help the poor and the disenfranchised. There are people who will be willing to provide you with transportation, or perhaps you can ride a bike or take a bus.

A sixteen year-old can also get involved in various pro-life activism. Search online, start with htp://www.marchforlife.org/

When she was 16, my daughter led a group of teenagers and chaperones to the March For Life and one of the chaperones did a short film of the trip which was shown to hundreds of teens.

You can help with Special Olympics and with lots of other fundraisers for various disabilities and diseases. My other daughter was an MDA camp counselor when she was 16. She enjoyed it so much that she decided to become a physical therapist. (She graduated this spring.)

Some hospitals will still accept teen volunteers. This is a wonderful way to brighten up someone’s life.

There is probably a teen organization or clearinghouse in your town or city for teens interested in volunteering and helping their community. Ask your principal about it. We have an organization in our city called “nfactor.”

Your diocese probably has some kind of service organization for teenagers, too. Call them up and ask.

If nothing else, visit your neighbors. You probably have elderly neighbors living near you. Bring them a little treat (a candy bar or some cookies that you make yourself), a card, a little tract from your church, a picture of Jesus, a little nosegay of flowers from your parents’ garden. People are so lonely–be Jesus to them.

And you can pray. If for some reason you are forbidden by your parents to do any of the above, then pray. If you do get involved with helping others through some local organization or ministry, pray anyway!

You may be somone that the Lord is calling to reform certain things in the Church (like St. Teresa of Avila). I would suggest reading a really good bio of St. Teresa; even though she was called to reform the Carmelites, she was never critical or judgemental, and she was always cheerful. In fact, she was fond of jokes.

If you aren’t called to reform the Church, then I would say–and I realize that this may sound harsh–you may be dealing with the onset of a critical spirit. I implore you to purge yourself of this critical spirit. It will cause you to be bitter and misanthropic and eventually you won’t be able to find joy in even the most pure Mass. You’ve already thought about leaving the Church–that should be an alarm bell in your brain that Satan is working on you. He is very clever–making it seem as though you are pious because you are concerned about abuses, but in reality, Satan is turning your head away from all the good and pointing out the bad, and you’re falling for it. Resist the devil.

I suggest that you might want to read S.c.r.e.w.tape Letters by C.S. Lewis. (Sorry for the periods–sometimes that word won’t get by the forum censors, even when it is in the context of that great book.)

I encourage you to spend time in prayer over this and possibly to seek counsel from an older Christian that you trust and admire.

Someone else mentioned that you should consider the sufferings of other Catholics and then praise the Lord for the Mass that you are allowed to assist at, even if it’s far from perfect. I agree with that poster. Stop zeroing in on the imperfections, and make a list of all the things that are good about the Mass that you attend–certainly Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament can make the dreariest Mass “heaven” on earth.
 
My ultimate point, I guess, is that the Holy Mass is supposed to be a reflection of the sacrifice being offered constantly in Heaven by the angels and saints and it’s just not happening at my church. I appreciate the volunteer suggestions and the mention of those in the Church who cannot go to mass, but, in this case, I think that we ARE fortunate enough in Canada to go always and with that freedom comes the responsibility to make the mass as heavenly as possible (with regards to a previous post on how this is not heaven, I’m not saying it is, I’m just saying, like Scott Hann’s ‘the Lamb’s Supper’ suggests, that the Holy Mass is when heaven ‘touches down on earth’, if you will.) I just want it to be that way. I am not AT ALL anti-V2 but I do believe that people have manipulated it so much that it is ALMOST doing more damge than good. For example, at my church almost everyone recieves the Body of Christ and (statistically) less than 25% go to confession. I just don’t get why the priest isn’t telling people ‘Don’t recieve if you don’t confess- it’s that simple.’

Another thing is the Canadian ‘Catholic Book of Worship III’ which contains a plethora of theologically incorrect teachings.

After having watched EWTN for a bit it makes me not wish that we were more Orthodox (yes big ‘O’) but that we were more EWTN, if you catch my drift.
 
puzzleannie said:
Rather than spending time at Mass looking for abuses, focus on the prayers and actions and above all Christ’s loving action for us. Do not allow yourself to be disturbed by anything that does not meet your expectations.
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How wonderful to hear a voice of reason…👍
 
031064 said:
I need some help and reassurance. Lately I’ve been lamenting over the loss of traditions in our Church and the effects of the ‘spirit of Vatican II’. It’s not even the novus ordo- I like it when it’s nice and pious but it’s mostly the priests and laypeople in the Church who think they, as ‘Catholics’, have the ‘right’ to innovate our liturgy, take out any mention of the BVM, build ugly churches, use hideous sacred vessels, abuse the liturgy, wear ‘spirit of V2’ vestments, etc. And after thinking for a little while I look at the Orthodox and ask myself maybe is it them? are they the real Faith? now, I must say that the TLM is an exception for me- it certainly measures up to the Divine Liturgy. but what about the others stuff- vestments, use of incense, veneration of Mary etc.- you don’t find that in the Novus Ordo at all- and that liturgy is a massive component of the Church.

One big thing for me is that I see a total protestantisation of our Church. For example, the Jubilee Church in rome (images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/jubilee/jubilee1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/jubilee/index.htm&h=285&w=430&sz=27&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=phZuJSKD4bkKCM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJubilee%2BChurch%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-ca:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7DACA%26sa%3DN)). Look at this and then compare it to the new Orthodox church in Serbia (kosovo.net/news/archive/2005/November_10/1.html)). the Orthodox have just done these things so much better- the vestments, music, liturgy etc- it’s more like heaven to me. And then I think it, “It would be simple to convert.”

Can someone pls just reassure me. I know the Catholic church is Truth, but I just hate the direction I see it going- modern this, modern that. Pls. help I’m really sad and struggling over this.
Click to expand...
Maybe why there are growing conversions in the West of Catholics to Orthodxy? Suppoosedly some Orthodox churches boast that a quarter of their members are former Catholics.
 
031064 said:
I couldn’t leave the Church because of these things because that would be dumb to leave the Church for the little things. But in my mind church is meant to be solemn and pious like it used to be. Sometimes I just think 'What is V2 never happened, wouldn’t it be great?"
Click to expand...
Is there an Eastern Rite Catholic church in your area?
 
I want to be a Latin Catholic- a reverent one though and I just don’t see a ton of reverence (in my diocese at least).
 
If there is an Eastern Rite nearby it would probably be in your best interest to at least visit it though. Just a suggestion
 
the nearest Greek Catholic church is pretty far but I can just bike there.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
I’m a great believer in asking for things I want – within reason, of course – and offering to help with them in whatever ways I can.
Click to expand...
This is very good advice; I would like to add to it.

When ever you ask for something or want something to be done, don’t be surprised if the person you ask doesn’t say something like this, “That is a great idea. When do you want to start working on that project.”

Perhaps you could be on the committee as a youth representative, planning for and encouraging youth people to be part of the “Adoration.” Being responsible for instance, in being there for Christ, if someone doesn’t show up.

Volunteer to be part of a calling chain for the sick. See to it that you take upon yourself the responsibility of visiting the sick and elderly and perhaps saying the Rosary and pray with those who are sick and lonely.

You will quickly learn that the people who are actually carrying out the duties of, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick appreciate what help you can provide for them.

You will then have the moral integrity within yourself to make the changes that you feel are necessary within the Church. If you are not in the trenches working, no one will listen to you.
 
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