HELP! Defending Masculinity of God with stupid Liberal Professor!

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Could I POSSIBLY inquire as to which city you go to school in? I go to a Catholic liberal arts school in Texas myself.

Edit: Oh wait, I saw where you posted. I go to school there, too. Maybe you got a rotten apple, but I don’t think you should dismiss the school entirely. I took a great Book of Revelations class with Professor Coblentz-Bauch that explained the Book in relation to old Hebrew texts. At the end of the class, we did a research project in which we talked to leaders of other faith communities and discussed how the Catholic interpretation differed.

I am not a Religious Studies major, but I don’t think one bad professor should be grounds to dismiss a fantastic school entirely. I am an English Writing major and my writing skills have flourished and improved immensely. I’ve made valuable, sincere friendships with peers and professors. St. Edwards has inspired me and helped me discern my calling in life.

The Dean’s department takes the class evaluations VERY seriously. Also, it’s not too difficult to get a meeting with the Dean if you want to discuss the issue personally. Connie has been really empathetic in all of my interactions with her.

Not debating your objections in class is no excuse. Being too scared to stand up for your beliefs is no excuse. Fear of questioning yourself and others is no excuse. Fear of what others will think of you is no excuse. Speak up! I talk everyone’s heads off in class because I am there to learn. I debate others and I debate my professors. It insures we don’t leave with unresolved contentions, and I’ve gained so much!
 
TMC said:
Jesus was incarnated as a man, so it is clearly appropriate to refer to Him as male. But God is neither male nor female - God is not human and transcends such labels. We commonly use masculine pronouns to refer to God for a variety of reasons - both practical and cultural, but its clear from both Scripture and Tradition that God is not either gender, and that both genders were created in God’s image. For example, some parts of the Old Testament refer to God with feminine pronouns and feminine imagery, and some Saints have referred to God as our Mother as well as our Father. I would be troubled by an assertion that God is exclusive feminine, but I don’t see anything wrong with acknowledging that God transcends gender – that is entirely consistent with Catholic theology.
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Sorry if someone else has asked this question. Where in the Scriptures is God referred to with feminine pronouns? I’m not setting out to doubt you, I just want to know. because that would be interesting.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
My Catholic bishop once lead a prayer group to say a prayer twice, once with the male pronoun for God, and once with the female.
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Pure PC Bishop. Not being a Good Catholic Bishop at all.

Through the prayers of the Mother Of God, have Mercy on Us and Save Us. Amen. :o
 
Ranklyfrank said:
Yep, ya do. First off, since that idea is ancient and didn’t come from the catechism to begin with, using that as a basis for your argument will backfire on you. Second, historians and theologians do talk about the masculine and feminine aspects of God and worship. It’s just done, because of historical paradigms. Third, ascribing masculinity to God is a convention of the culture that the OT came from. Patriarchal culture=patriarchal God. Fourth, it is only in the lower mystical revelations and expositions that God is referred to as a person, even a Divine one. Fifth, don’t bring Mary into it as you might light the fuse to a bomb you don’t want to go off in your face. Sixth, you are absolutely right: there is no way to know God by thinking, so it may not be such a sweat to get worked up over as to ascribing a gender to Deity.

Good luck!
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I don’t think you are really helping the Op, Ranklyfrank. :rolleyes:

Others in the thread have given good, logical arguments, but the Best One is still the one by Ronnie: Jesus referred to God as a He, so ECs and CCs refer to God as a He. Simple. 👍
 
So Ronnie agrees with me: patriarchal culture=patriarchal God. And the problem is?
 
Jesus referred to God as Father because He was born in a patriarchal society which would have rejected Him outright if He had been a woman or called God “Our Mother”. It is a mistake to attribute any sexual orientation to God. Jesus knew we need a concrete image of the Creator rather than an abstract concept like “He Who Is”. Nevertheless He did say that God is Spirit - which implies transcendence of all** physical **characteristics.
 
ronnie_bonigli said:
What’s with the “Yes, but”? I said the first person in the Holy Trinity does not have a body (as well as the second and third persons, except that the second person also took a human nature with a body, which he has still), but God is pure spirit, and has attributes which are like a mother or a father. But throughout the Gospels up to and including where he taught the “Our Father” Jesus taught that we were to call God our Father. Why is this so difficult? If you’re going to ignore the dozens of clear statements of Jesus in the Gospels where do you draw the line? That maybe we should call God our “Daughter” or Buddha or Krishna? No, we call The first person Father because as CHRISTians we do as Christ did and told us to do.
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I am not ignoring the statements of Jesus, but you are ignoring the teaching of the Church. As I pointed out in my post, it is the clear and consistent teaching of the Catholic Church that God is neither male nor female (and you agree with that). My post also demonstrates that it is the clear and consistent teaching of the Church that God is also both Father and Mother (which you apparenlty deny). There is nothing wrong with referring to God as either gender. That is not what I am saying, that is what the Church teaches.
 
roveau said:
Sorry if someone else has asked this question. Where in the Scriptures is God referred to with feminine pronouns? I’m not setting out to doubt you, I just want to know. because that would be interesting.
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Principally in Wisdom, but also in many of the Psalms.
 
TMC said:
I am not ignoring the statements of Jesus, but you are ignoring the teaching of the Church. As I pointed out in my post, it is the clear and consistent teaching of the Catholic Church that God is neither male nor female (and you agree with that). My post also demonstrates that it is the clear and consistent teaching of the Church that God is also both Father and Mother (which you apparenlty deny). There is nothing wrong with referring to God as either gender. That is not what I am saying, that is what the Church teaches.
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No one is disputing that God is spirit and so has no gender, We are simply discussing how to reference Him. I say “Him” because Jesus did. That’s good enough for me. It seems to me that pride is showing its ugly head when some insist on referring to God as she.
 
TMC said:
I am not ignoring the statements of Jesus, but you are ignoring the teaching of the Church. As I pointed out in my post, it is the clear and consistent teaching of the Catholic Church that God is neither male nor female (and you agree with that). My post also demonstrates that it is the clear and consistent teaching of the Church that God is also both Father and Mother (which you apparenlty deny). There is nothing wrong with referring to God as either gender. That is not what I am saying, that is what the Church teaches.
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I am new at posting and being a Catholic, however I do understand that the Church teaches us that God is neither male nor female, but where does it teach us that we can refer to God as anything but our Father?

Somehow this all reminds me of the controversy surrounding “The DaVinci Code”.:rolleyes:*
 
Waiting said:
No one is disputing that God is spirit and so has no gender, We are simply discussing how to reference Him. I say “Him” because Jesus did. That’s good enough for me. It seems to me that pride is showing its ugly head when some insist on referring to God as she.
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Really? Because the title of the thread and the OP both discuss defending the masculinity of God.

If you agree God is neither masculine nor feminine, why is it prideful to refer to God as “She” but not prideful to refer to God as “He”? I have no problem with anyone’s decision to use “He” to refer to God (that is the pronoun I generally use), but why beat up on others for using both? God is referred to as each in Scripture, by the Church and by Saints, and there is nothing wrong with doing so.
 
TMC said:
Really? Because the title of the thread and the OP both discuss defending the masculinity of God.

If you agree God is neither masculine nor feminine, why is it prideful to refer to God as “She” but not prideful to refer to God as “He”? I have no problem with anyone’s decision to use “He” to refer to God (that is the pronoun I generally use), but why beat up on others for using both? God is referred to as each in Scripture, by the Church and by Saints, and there is nothing wrong with doing so.
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Those scripture quotes are all Old Testament, which is still the word of God, but didn’t Jesus put things in the perspective of how the Blessed Trinity prefers things in the New Testament?
 
Waiting said:
Those scripture quotes are all Old Testament, which is still the word of God, but didn’t Jesus put things in the perspective of how the Blessed Trinity prefers things in the New Testament?
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I don’t remember Jesus ever repudiating those parts of the Old Testament. As Catholics, we look to the Church for guidance on these things, and the catechism clearly says that God is neither masculine nor feminine. God is the model for both genders, and God is both Father and Mother to us all.
 
College_Girl said:
Ok, so currently I reading through material to be discussed at a class later this week in which the author says that Masculinity conquered “The Great Mother” and replaced it with a masculine God and now we must reclaim feminine spirituality.

Ok, at this PATHETIC school I am at, all if not most of the professor believe in calling God “she” and using he and she interchangeably. I have talked to a priest, a seminarian, and TWO people with master in theology about this so I now perfectly well why this is just a load of ****. But I am already gearing up to openly debate my professor in class about this because I am DONE sitting there and letting him flat out lie about what our church teaches.

The thing is, every time I get fired about and ready to debate him (there is one in particular at my “Catholic” school is ridiculously liberal and for lack of a better word, just stupid) I just remember he has a doctorate in theology and makes his living off of speaking and I back down. But this time I don’t want to do that.

Can anyone please give me some good arguments about this? And sources to read up on? Prayers for the courage to debate him in front of my peers and other professors (the class is taught by multiple professor so I may end up not just having to fight with one unfortunately.)

Here is what Im thinking about saying:
One, I understand that we will never be able to fully understand God
Two: Our reverence of Mary keeps feminine spirituality well alive
Three: No where is this dumb ideal in the catechism

Thats about all I got… I need a lot of help!!!
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Welcome CG:

You know, they might be right: God might just be a female. But, one thing’s for sure: Mother Nature surely isn’t! Considering the proliferation of life on this planet, Mother Nature is wrong. Everyone knows that women and, especially, mothers, don’t run around making myriads of new little ones everywhere you look! Only rotten men do that. So, it must be Father Nature. So, that’s a good trade off, isn’t it? Jesus and the early Saints and Churchmen and Churchwomen simply got it wrong. It’s hard to imagine how Jesus could have gotten it so wrong, though. Since, after all, He is God. One would think He, of all beings, would know whether He was a boy or a girl! :confused:

God bless,
jd
 
TMC said:
I don’t remember Jesus ever repudiating those parts of the Old Testament. As Catholics, we look to the Church for guidance on these things, and the catechism clearly says that God is neither masculine nor feminine. God is the model for both genders, and God is both Father and Mother to us all.
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Jesus didn’t repudiate the O.T. But He clearly stated a preference in how to to address His Father.
 
Loml said:
Patriarchal God = patriarchal culture, maybe? God chose Abraham, not the other way round.
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That is a good point, Lomi. All that I would offer is that generally speaking, from spiritualists to mystics, those who are highly analytical tend to say that the mind of the experiencer colors the contents of the vision. For example, while the various stages of an “out-of-body” phenomenon are cross culturally and cross temporally very consistent, the identity of the “guide” at one stage is dependent on the belief or lack thereof of the person having the experience. Christians “see” Jesus. Others, in kind, see Buddha or Mohammed. So there is an interpretive factor at work here as well.
 
tonyrey said:
Jesus referred to God as Father because He was born in a patriarchal society which would have rejected Him outright if He had been a woman or called God “Our Mother”. It is a mistake to attribute any sexual orientation to God. Jesus knew we need a concrete image of the Creator rather than an abstract concept like “He Who Is”. Nevertheless He did say that God is Spirit - which implies transcendence of all** physical **characteristics.
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I’m bloomin’ blown out of the water! I agree 100% on this with Tonyrey.
 
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou be made like him.
(Proverbs 26:4 DRB)
 
Originally Posted by roveau
Sorry if someone else has asked this question. Where in the Scriptures is God referred to with feminine pronouns? I’m not setting out to doubt you, I just want to know. because that would be interesting.
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I believe that if you look up “Elohim” it is plural feminine.
 
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