Help! Family wants me to get married in Catholic Church

[aspirant]

Can someone tell me more about why it is a sin for my parents to attend my wedding? …It seems a bit harsh to say that a parent cannot attend their child’s wedding because they do not share the same faith… I cannot lie about my beliefs.

It is not necessarily a sin for a Catholic to attend an invalid marriage. Catholic moral teaching and canon law do not actually forbid it.

As a Catholic, though a non-practicing one, I think you are still bound by the Catholic form of marriage (a canon lawyer would know better than I, so if any are present, please correct me). If so, your marriage outside the Catholic form without dispensation would not be valid in the eyes of the Church. Catholics such as your parents are not, however, prohibited from attending invalid marriages.

Here’s the difficult part. They are prohibited from engaging in acts which could reasonably lead others to believe that they condone wrongdoing (i.e. causing scandal). If your parents are able to ensure that others will not reasonably interpret their presence as an affirmation of your wrongdoing, however, they may attend.

I know this will sound harsh, and I don’t mean for it to come across that way. I understand that from your perspective you probably don’t think you’re doing something wrong. I understand that you probably want your parents to condone the wedding, and it will probably be painful to hear that they may not do that. But I have no doubt that your parents love you and want to be with you. That they may do: they may attend the wedding if others will not reasonably interpret their presence as an affirmation of wrongdoing.

More info here.
And here.
But see also case 3 here.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Marriage isn’t only a God/religious thing. Most people want to love another, have children with them, create a home. Marriage is a structure that signifies that commitment and desire–a human desire that exists whether a person is pagan, atheist, deist, polydeist, agnostic, etc…

What is a “structure” and who determines what a “structure” is? Is a structure more than just an emotional need? Then what is so special about it? Why even have a ceremony? Because it’s a right? Then Who gave you that right?

After what that priest told his parents, it looks as though they are too frightened (of hell) to investigate further themselves if maybe there is a way.

Like the OP said, that’s probably a misinterpretation of what the priest actually said.

 

[serinatran]

If you are agnostic then why do you believe in marriage? Why do you value it, why do you want it, and why are you disturbed what other people think about your proposed marriage?

I believe in marriage because I want to marry the man I love and spend the rest of my life with him. I would like to have his children and all the rights that come with a marriage under the law. I believe that marriage is also a legal and emotional contract/promise in addition to something that can be religious. I am not bothered by what other people think of the marriage per se. If my parents do not believe it is a valid marriage under the catholic religion then I accept that. The ceremony is just a celebration of our love and it will be legally binding and I would just like for them to be there to support me.

You recognize that marriage is an inalienable right, which is why you are seeking to exercise the right despite your position with regard to religion. Because you recognize that marriage is an inalienable right, you hold that it is not a right given by men–if men gave you the right they could take it away, therefore it would not be inalienable. That’s why you’re here trying to figure out how to deal with what (consciously or subconsciously) you perceive to be men in the way of the exercise of your inalienable right. But to have an inalienable right, you must have a source of the right that is superior to men, therefore you must have a Supreme Being Who gives you the right. Therefore you believe in a Supreme Being, and therefore, you’re not agnostic (which is no surprise: no one is agnostic because all agnostics assert an inalienable right to be agnostic and therefore presuppose the existence of a Supreme Being).

I think just because you believe a right is inalienable it doesn’t mean that god must exist to give you that right. It is possible for men to take away that right but to me inalienable just means that it is a right that SHOULDN’T be taken away. So freedom is an inalienable right but obviously during the time of the civil war slavery existed.

I believe it is most likely that there is a creative force but I do not know or have a feeling of certainty about what this force or “god” is like. I guess this uncertainty is what makes me describe my belief as agnosticism but perhaps a better description could be that I am a deist?

Thank you for the links. Even though at this time I cannot say that I believe in god I still find it very interesting to read about religions and Catholicism in particular since I was brought up to believe in it. I would like to keep an open mind and its possible at some point maybe I will discover faith.

 

[aspirant]

I am not bothered by what other people think of the marriage per se. If my parents do not believe it is a valid marriage under the catholic religion then I accept that… I would just like for them to be there to support me.

Share the links I posted with them. It may be possible for them to attend.

 

[serinatran]

Share the links I posted with them. It may be possible for them to attend.

Thank you so much! I will definitely share these articles with them. I also read some of the links above concerning this and had a question.

Some were saying that if I was baptized as a baby and then later renounce Catholicism that I would not be expected to be married in the catholic tradition so in essence it would be like two non Catholics getting married and it would still be a valid marriage?

Or is it true that once baptized, I would be considered catholic in the eyes of the church no matter what I believed? If this is true can I get a dispensation from a bishop for a non catholic ceremony? Then it would be a valid marriage?

Or even if it was an invalid marriage my parents could still attend as long as it was a non religious ceremony and we are not making any vows to god? Sorry for all of the questions but I guess I am still a little confused.

 

[quiet52]

Or is it possible to get a Catholic priest that will perform a catholic marriage sacrament at an outdoor venue? I saw a site www.weddingpriest.org that say they can do this. Would this be okay for my parents and my family to attend since we would still be getting married by a Catholic priest.
QUOTE]

If you hired a fake Catholic “priest” to conduct your marriage ceremony, as far as your parents are concerned you would be twisting the knife. Absolutely do not hire one of these “priests”.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Thank you so much! I will definitely share these articles with them. I also read some of the links above concerning this and had a question.

Some were saying that if I was baptized as a baby and then later renounce Catholicism that I would not be expected to be married in the catholic tradition so in essence it would be like two non Catholics getting married and it would still be a valid marriage?

Or is it true that once baptized, I would be considered catholic in the eyes of the church no matter what I believed? If this is true can I get a dispensation from a bishop for a non catholic ceremony? Then it would be a valid marriage?

Or even if it was an invalid marriage my parents could still attend as long as it was a non religious ceremony and we are not making any vows to god? Sorry for all of the questions but I guess I am still a little confused.

There is no longer a provision for “renouncing” the faith. It can’t be done.
You have been baptised, and are now bound by the laws of the Church.

As far as a dispensation goes, no one here is able to tell you if you qualify for that. You really need to take these questions to a priest.

 

[PJM]

=serinatran;10615411]Wow thanks for all of these responses. The whole going to hell that might have been my moms interpretation from what the priest said.

I do believe in a lot of the catholic teachings of love and I do believe that this marriage will be permanent. I do not believe in divorce. I guess I am a scientist and I find it hard to have faith in something without empirical evidence. So there is no empirical evidence for the existence of god or for him not existing. Therefore I am keeping an open mind and hence my agnosticism.

I think part of the problem is that it has been hard to talk to my parents about my lack of faith. And the idea of them not being at the wedding really saddens me so I wanted to do what I could to keep the peace as someone above mentioned. I will attend the pre Cana classes because I think that would really help with our future marriage. I will try to talk to a priest too to find out what my parents can do to still attend the wedding as I would really like for them to be there.

Can someone tell me more about why it is a sin for my parents to attend my wedding? Is it because I was baptized as a catholic and so must be married in the church for the marriage to be valid? If they were just attending a ceremony between two non Catholics then it wouldn’t be a sin right? Even if it was a sin, would they still be able to attend and then ask for forgiveness after the fact?

I guess another part of my issue with the Catholic Church has always been their intolerance of certain things. It seems a bit harsh to say that a parent cannot attend their child’s wedding because they do not share the same faith. I was trying to respect my parents beliefs which was why I was considering trying to get married in the church to make them happy but as others have mentioned above I cannot lie about my beliefs.

I do appreciate all the advice and I hope that there will be some solution that will make both me and my parents happy.

I’m not a scientiest so grant me a bit of leeway please

Evidence of god [a superior force] is all oround us.

The Univerise with its complexity and majesty; the natural laws, and most evidently; man himself. Consider the scientific impoertanc eof the sun and moon and their essential role on planet earth. Surely this cannot be coincedience?

Isa.43 Verses 7and 21: “every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." AND the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.”
[mans choice: God commits to offering everyone sufficient grace that they could know of Him; and then choose ot actually KNOW Him.

Then consider that man alone can and does emulate our God.

Of the BILLIONS of created things [first cause results]; only One; only humanity has a mind, intellect and freewill connected to our Souls [for this discussion that which annimates all life forms; but is at the top of the Order of complexity].

Only man can rationalize; can make something “new” out of existing things: a Rocket to the moon for example. And only man can choose to love or hate.

Eccl. 15:18 “Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him”

Each of these actions require the use of these special SPIRITUAL Gifts. Like Our God; ''Spiritual realities"; not so different from the air we breath [also not concidential]; and these are HOW one CAN Know God.

So my friend, everytime you look into a mirror to do see the evidence of God.

ALSO the fulfillment of Old testament Prophisies about Christ which have historical evidence of fulfilment.

God Bless you!

Pat/PJM

 

[Allegra]

As others have said, you need to talk to a priest regarding your ability to get a dispensation and your parent’s ability to attend your wedding ceremony. It might be that it all works out and that your parents can attend the wedding. It seems like you are willing to go the extra mile to do what’s right and comfortable for your family and that’s always a good start.

 

[otjm]

When otjm wrote, “you are not held to the form the Church requires for Catholics”, this is not correct. The Church, since it sees you as a Catholic, still holds you to the requirements for a Catholic marriage, and this includes the form of marriage (being married by a Catholic priest in good standing, in a church, preferably your parish church, etc).

Without the attempt to fulfill the requirements of form, then your marriage would be non-existent in the eyes of the Church. (This is probably the gist of what your parents’ pastor was saying: he was asking them whether there was any hypocrisy in witnessing to a sacramentally non-existent marriage, and whether such witness was sinful. In doing so, he asks a good question. )

If you are going to remark on what I say, then please have the courtesy to quote what I say, not paraphrase (incorrectly) it and then state that I am wrong.

What I said was: “If you have actually abandoned the Church (and from your statement I cannot exactly tell), then you are not held to the form the Church requires for Catholics”

As a matter of fact, there are circumstances where one baptized Catholic is not longer held to the form; and that usually applies where one has formally abandoned the Church. And as I noted in my comment, I said “If”, and then I further stated “and from your statement I cannot exactly tell”.

 

[JM3]

If my parents do not believe it is a valid marriage under the catholic religion then I accept that. The ceremony is just a celebration of our love and it will be legally binding

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_p-vi_motu-proprio_19700331_matrimonia-mixta_en.html

1. A marriage between two persons of whom one has been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, while the other is unbaptized, entered into without previous dispensation by the local Ordinary, is invalid.

1. The celebration of marriage before a Catholic priest or deacon and a non-Catholic minister, performing their respective rites together, is forbidden. Nor is it permitted to have another religious marriage ceremony before or after the Catholic ceremony, for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent.

The ceremony cannot resemble, in any way, a Buddhist ceremony.

Must your parents compromise their faith for your happiness?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Thank you for the links. Even though at this time I cannot say that I believe in god I still find it very interesting to read about religions and Catholicism in particular since I was brought up to believe in it. I would like to keep an open mind and its possible at some point maybe I will discover faith.

Keep it open, then, and I’ll pray for you.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

If you are going to remark on what I say, then please have the courtesy to quote what I say, not paraphrase (incorrectly) it and then state that I am wrong.

What I said was: “If you have actually abandoned the Church (and from your statement I cannot exactly tell), then you are not held to the form the Church requires for Catholics”

As a matter of fact, there are circumstances where one baptized Catholic is not longer held to the form; and that usually applies where one has formally abandoned the Church. And as I noted in my comment, I said “If”, and then I further stated “and from your statement I cannot exactly tell”.

You cannot become “un-Catholic”. There is no way, no special procedure, nothing!
If you are baptized you are bound by the laws of the Chruch, especially as they pertain to marriage. Even if you don’t know or understand the law, you are bound by the law. I know this first-hand, as I almost had to give up the sacramental life in order to stay married to my husband of 20 years, because I left the Chruch and did notfollow the rules, thinking they didn’t apply to me. As they say, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

The blessing that has come of this is that I have become a very strong supporter of catechesis, for ADULTS as well as children, and the importance of the Sacraments, in and of themselves, and not because Mom& Dad or Grandma expects it, or as an excuse for a big party.

It may not seem fair, and in then end, my experiences have strengthened my faith.

 

[Gorgias]

If you are going to remark on what I say, then please have the courtesy to quote what I say, not paraphrase (incorrectly) it and then state that I am wrong.

What I said was: “If you have actually abandoned the Church (and from your statement I cannot exactly tell), then you are not held to the form the Church requires for Catholics”

As a matter of fact, there are circumstances where one baptized Catholic is not longer held to the form; and that usually applies where one has formally abandoned the Church.

Right. I believe I understood what you said… and both your initial statement and this one are incorrect.

Are you trying to refer to canon 1071 or 1125? Do you have a citation for your claim?

Not trying to antagonize you – just trying to correct your statement and to keep others from gaining an erroneous understanding.

Blessings,

G.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

While you can’t become “unmarked” from baptism or confirmation, you can self excommunicate.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Excommunication does not make one “un-Catholic” nor it does it “unbind” one from the law.

If someone is baptized, they are CATHOLIC!
Period. End of discussion. It cannot be undone.

 

[Elizium23]

Since the promulgation of Omnium in Mentem in 2009, acts of formal defection from the Church have no effect on the requirement of canonical form for marriage.

 

[Carolus_Martell]

No way a legitimate priest will marry you, sorry.

I kind of have a good feeling what you’re going threw because back in '70’s my family was in turmoil I was marring outside the faith…Oh what angst.

But I went threw with it anyway. My recommendation to you that if you want this marriage to work. The odds will favor ‘a successful marriage’ if you and your intended go to RICA and the whole 9 yards.

But best wishes anyway.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Excommunication does not make one “un-Catholic” nor it does it “unbind” one from the law.

If someone is baptized, they are CATHOLIC!
Period. End of discussion. It cannot be undone.

What do you mean when you say “they are Catholic” ?

Does this mean they are now saved into heaven on death or they remain marked.

Please clarify what you mean by the statement.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

What do you mean when you say “they are Catholic” ?

Does this mean they are now saved into heaven on death or they remain marked.

Please clarify what you mean by the statement.

In the case of the OP, they were baptized, confirmed and had First Eucharist.
They are Catholic, it cannot be undone.
They may not practice the faith, but they are still bound by the laws of the Church, especially as they pertain to marriage.

A of now, the OP says they do not want to practice the faith. Who knows if that may change in 20 years, and if they decided at some point to embrace their faith, decisions that are made now, that go against the teachings of the faith (i.e. marrying without the proper form) may keep them from celebrating the Sacraments later.