Help from parish music directors/liturgists

[ccmcmg]

I attend a nearby parish (the Cathedral in a nearby city) on occasion. It’s such a beautiful building, and it’s the seat of the Bishop in the diocese. However, their music and music participation really struggles.

Before Mass, the cantor makes an announcement asking us to sing loudly, pray fervently, among other things. However, it’s very easy for me, a visitor, to see why that isn’t happening. The acoustics are horrible; the cantors don’t ‘lead’ (they say the name of the song, and then don’t ‘guide/lead’ the congregation…and the piano or organ isn’t playing the melody at all), and very few of the songs are familiar. I’d almost guess that they are trying to play every one of the 700+ songs in one year. The Gloria, Holy Holy Holy, and Lamb of God are impossible to sing along with, for many reasons. I couldn’t even figure out what the Eucharistic response was, between the loud music, being unable to hear the cantor (they don’t stand anywhere near the microphone, except during the solo part of the Psalm), and the bad acoustics.

We’ve attended off and on over the last couple of years, and it’s a problem every time. The visitors last night to the parish from out of town even mentioned it. This parish is the representative to the visiting community, and it’s so sad that it’s not all it could be, and has such trouble with acoustics and music. (Not just music; I struggled to understand the priest at all, and he had no accent; the lector had a heavy accent and was difficult to follow, no matter how slow he talked and how hard he tried.)

I’m not criticizing; I just wish it was better, and wondered how to suggest to the parish why people, especially us visitors (regular or one-timers) are having difficulties.

I know and appreciate that it’s a difficult job, especially in a high profile parish. Should I just forget about it? I know I can’t fix it, personally, and surely, in the past 2 years, I’m not the only person who has noticed it; I’d think others would have mentioned it.

Thanks Music Directors for all your hard work. It’s often not appreciated until it’s gone, but I do appreciate all your hard work and time!

 

[liturgyluver]

I attend a nearby parish (the Cathedral in a nearby city) on occasion. It’s such a beautiful building, and it’s the seat of the Bishop in the diocese. However, their music and music participation really struggles.

Before Mass, the cantor makes an announcement asking us to sing loudly, pray fervently, among other things. However, it’s very easy for me, a visitor, to see why that isn’t happening. The acoustics are horrible; the cantors don’t ‘lead’ (they say the name of the song, and then don’t ‘guide/lead’ the congregation…and the piano or organ isn’t playing the melody at all), and very few of the songs are familiar. I’d almost guess that they are trying to play every one of the 700+ songs in one year. The Gloria, Holy Holy Holy, and Lamb of God are impossible to sing along with, for many reasons. I couldn’t even figure out what the Eucharistic response was, between the loud music, being unable to hear the cantor (they don’t stand anywhere near the microphone, except during the solo part of the Psalm), and the bad acoustics.

This is a common problem in many catholic parishes. I really don’t think the cantor system so favoured by many parishes works at all, especially when you have someone booming into a microphone and drowning everyone else out.

Our new parish priest has banned the cantor from everything except the Psalm, and singing has improved by 500% at least. He makes clear that he expects everyone to join in with the liturgy, provides the music for the ordinary of the mass, and choses cross-denominational traditional hymns that everyone knows rather exclusively modern hymns that everyone seemed to loath. We have 5 masses with music every weekend and one on Thursday too - two use unaccompanied plainchant congregational settings and hymns, another is choral with propers, mass settings and anthem sung by the choir, and the other two have organ accompaniment to congregational settings. So something for everyone, plus one without music.

 

[RCbkr]

Sometimes the assembly doesn’t sing because they basically aren’t “allowed” to. With an organist and a choir who lead many what I would term performance Masses, the people in the pews must stand and listen to the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Sanctus, and the Agnus Dei instead of participating. I say this as someone who is in the choir and can see the poor people standing for a five minute Latin Gloria, and I feel for them. The liturgy belongs to all and should be a joyful part of worship. I have no answers.

 

[pianistclare]

Trust me. They won’t listen.
A good cantor is worth their weight in gold, and must have a voice that engenders confidence.
Airy sopranos are lovely to listen to , but when a person sings in a high wispy tone, people in the pew automatically believe they can’t possibly hit those notes and they don’t even try. Another more “mellow singer” with a full resonant voice can sing the exact same notes, same key, and people will remark…now THAT person I can follow.
???
What to do?
Until the Choir director is presented with a good quality recording of how it sounds from the pews…they won’t listen and you will dismissed. They won’t respond to other, professional musicians either.
It has to come from the Pastor. And whether or not he wants to deal with it in another kettle of fish entirely.
I’d just let iust go. Unless of course, they offer you the job!

 

[ccmcmg]

Oh, I don’t want the job, believe me.

I’ve attended many different parishes for one reason or another (visiting, special events, traveling) and sadly, this is one of the worst for music and participation. We’re very blessed in many other area parishes to have great music, although I do agree some do take it to the performance level at times.

The hymns are hard to sing, little known, and overpowered by the organ (it is beautiful, don’t get me wrong, but hard to sing along with, especially when you can’t hear the melody, or yourself). This is the only parish in the area that the cantor doesn’t ‘lead’ on hymns. Perhaps there were issues before with the cantor ending up singing the songs alone.

As far as those performance pieces, if I know the prayer in song, I will sing along to myself, quietly to myself.

I’m not the only one who laments the acoustics. Others have mentioned it to me when I’ve said I’ve attended there on occasion.

Thanks though.

 

[pianistclare]

Oh, I don’t want the job, believe me.

I’ve attended many different parishes for one reason or another (visiting, special events, traveling) and sadly, this is one of the worst for music and participation. We’re very blessed in many other area parishes to have great music, although I do agree some do take it to the performance level at times.

The hymns are hard to sing, little known, and overpowered by the organ (it is beautiful, don’t get me wrong, but hard to sing along with, especially when you can’t hear the melody, or yourself). This is the only parish in the area that the cantor doesn’t ‘lead’ on hymns. Perhaps there were issues before with the cantor ending up singing the songs alone.

As far as those performance pieces, if I know the prayer in song, I will sing along to myself, quietly to myself.

I’m not the only one who laments the acoustics. Others have mentioned it to me when I’ve said I’ve attended there on occasion.

Thanks though.

It is interesting that the Catholic church has a wealth of good music, and also some good newer music, and the people there who would be uplifted and appreciative of quality music.
But it’s seldom a priority.
Music is always the last thought, the last line on the budget, and likely to go to whomever will do the minimum for the minimum amount of money.
We would never think like this in other parts of the liturgy. Quality, fine appointments, excellence. But music? Well, just find someone who can carry a tune and preferably can play a keyboard and call it done.
It’s really sad.

I really feel for you, it must be painful to hear.
St. Cecilia, pray for us!
God bless.

 

[whipp711]

I keep harkening back to re-read Thomas Day’s book. Still rings true.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Our music director likes to point out that it is not the cantor but the organ(ist) who leads the cantor, choir, and congregation in song:

Sing to the Lord 41. The primary role of the organist, other instrumentalists, or instrumental ensemble is to lead and sustain the singing of the assembly and of the choir, cantor, and psalmist, without dominating or overpowering them.

The Roman Rite historically and in its normative Latin form doesn’t actually call for a “cantor” in the way we are accustomed to use the word, as an amplified voice whose presence leads or encourages the congregation in unified song. What Sing to the Lord ascribes to the cantor is more properly the role of the “animator of the assembly” (whose theoretically/possibly-separable duties in practice get combined with that the of cantor), but even in calling it the duty of the cantor to lead congregational singing, that document notes that

1. …]In order to promote the singing of the liturgical assembly, the cantor’s voice should not be heard above the congregation. As a transitional practice, the voice of the cantor might need to be amplified to stimulate and lead congregational singing when this is still weak. However, as the congregation finds its voice and sings with increasing confidence, the cantor’s voice should correspondingly recede.

So if you wanted to offer some constructive criticism about your perceived lack of guidance from the cantors, I would not assert the lack itself as a problem, but suggest that the musicians have simply moved too quickly to this level before the congregation was capable of working that way.