Help get a Golden Compass poster out of a public school

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Please remember that public schools are suppose to to enforce the separation between church and state. Unless a book has inappropriate language, violence, or sexual activity for a particular age group the school is not obligated to do anything. Just because a book is anti-religous or supports a religion you disagree with is not a reason in PUBLIC schools to pull a book or a poster.
You are right when you state that public schools enforce the separation of church and state (a Constitutional interpretation which I don’t necessarily agree with in the way it has been applied to the ordinary lives of citizens of the United States).

However, I disagree when you write “[j]ust because a book is anti-religous or supports a religion you disagree with is not a reason in PUBLIC schools to pull a book or a poster.”

People are entrusting part of their childrens’ education, perhaps, mistakenly, the bulk of it, to America’s public schools.

When such schools ACTIVELY promote the reading of fictional stories that are patently morally offensive to the families and students of a segment of its student population, it should stop promoting the reading of such stories.

I can, in a way, prove that.

There was a school district in my state which had students sing as part of their education an old song, which may be a 19th Century minstrel song, I’m not certain of the songs origins, called “Pick A Barrel Of Cotton.”

In the song (a song which I was taught when I was child at public school as well), students were told by the teacher to jump around and make a large swooping motion with their hand and arm, while singing, as if they were picking a barrel of cotton. The song had one or two words, while not racist in themselves, like “Mamy,” which understandably African Americans could find find offensive.

Most of the schools in my area are economically racially segregated, so most of the schools contain either mainly white or black students.

Finally, with this community becoming more integrated over the years, the father of an African American student complained that the song shouldn’t be song. The school administrators reviewed the song, and while there was nothing necessarily racist in the song per se, they agreed that the song served no useful educational purpose, and withdrew it from the curriculum.

Schools are not obligated to buy copies of this book; schools are not obligated to place a poster in their libraries promoting this book.

Ask yourself the question: why this book among all other books in the world?? Why not Treasure Island, The Great Brain series, The Wizard of Oz series, or Frankenstein, Shakespeare, or Tom Sawyer, or works by Dickens or H.G. Wells?? Why dumb down the books our children read?? Why the low reading standards??

Tell me, was there a similar promotion by the school for either The Lord of The Rings or The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe??

Why don’t you check your school’s library; just tell me if they contain any works by Karl Marx, V.I. Lenin, Adolf Hitler, Stalin or children’s versions of biographies with illustrations about these three men?? Are there any books about the American Communist Party, or extol life in the old Soviet Union, or about the English Labour Party or European socialism??

How about any books that teach economics or books by economists like the late John Kenneth Galbraith. See if there are any books about Walter Reuther, Eugene Debs, Samuel Gompers, or histories of American labor unions?? And are there any books about Satanism or Wicca, or Salomon Rushdie’s Satanic Verses or The Elders of the Protocols of Zion?? I’m just curious.

I think a poster displayed in a state run school is a government endorsement of the book and the ideas contained in the book.

While schools may enforce the separation of church and state, I certainly don’t believe, as a citizen, that they should perform an act, which is not a necessary act, especially such as posting a poster, which is thus a government promotion, of a book that contains what many consider to be an immoral, blasphemous story, and that is offensive to their religious beliefs.

It may be one thing if the library has the book in its collection; I think a poster though is an endorsement of the books and its ideas.

The average child, who sees that poster, probably thinks if my own school has a poster of the book, this must be a good or great work of writing and is something important and I should read it.

It is the goal of a pluralistic democracy to make certain that all of its citizens feel that they belong, according to custom, tradition, and reason.

Remember, Catholic men and women have fought and died for this country in all its wars, including Iraq, since its inception and have played a major role in it; we don’t need our state schools stabbing us in the back and mocking our faith while spending our property tax dollars on trashy stories.
 
Of course, I would never advocate that my daughter take the poster down or cover it up without permission. I do think she should say something though and I will be making an appointment with the librarian first so that we can talk to her together.

Interestingly enough the review I recently read of the movie made sure to point out that it ends before the first books does–so that God is not killed in this movie. Even more reason to keep the box office quiet so that they don’t feel any incentive to make the sequels.
 
And I’m sorry but I have to disagree with your statements. When you add religion into the mix it takes on a whole different look. I agree that public schools need to be careful of promoting anything that could appear to be racist, or has possible racist language. We have laws protecting people from that. We do not have laws protecting people from religions they don’t like or atheist ideas. In fact to the contrary we have laws that allow people to hold a variety of ideas whether I like them or not.

Schools are obligated to provide all children with a wide variety of possible reading materials. Just cause you don’t like it, doesn’t mean that it should not be available for others. What if a community decide to didn’t like Catholics. Should they be able to pull any books supporting it from the shelves? Should they not put posters up for those books? You may think thats crazy, but I worked in a school just like that. I had to fight to get these books back on the shelves. Please remember that the OP was talking about a public school not a parochial school. I am obligated to teach your child skills, and how to interact with others. YOU are obligated to teach you child the morals/beliefs you want them to have. You are not obligated to teach other children, nor should you force your belief on other people’s children.

And a couple of others. Yes my school has promoted other books, including the Narnia series. Please also don’t assume student are stupid. They know that most of the poster go up because they are provided not because the school endorses or support something. We do in fact have books on Wicca and Satanism, which I wish we didn’t, but they are religions and we are not allowed to exclude any religion just because we don’t agree with it. Yes as a matter of fact we have both of Adolf HItler’s books (these are really good resources when teaching about WWII). We have several copies of Marx, one of Lenin, several books by American communists and anarchists, we have pro-Zion books and anti-Zion books.

You are probably asking what is wrong with this school? Why do they have all these books? The answer, again its not my job or any public school teacher’s job to teach your child morals/beliefs. However, it is our job to teach your child how to think critically. In order to do that, they must be exposed to a wide variety of resources, some of which go against what they may believe or think. Welcome to reality. If this is not for you, then pull your child and stick them in a parochial school. Public schools are for everyone, not just the people that agree with me or you. Unless its against the law (ex. racist or pornographic books), or is inappropriate for that age group then it has the right to be in the public school library. Posters should be up promoting all kinds of books, even ones I disagree with. You don’t like the book, don’t read it. You don’t want your child reading the book, then don’t let them. You want to help promote another book, then do so. But don’t forbid other people from being able to make critical decisions for themselves.

Historybrat

Historybrat
 
Our local Catholic schools will not be carrying this book in their library and will not be holding book fairs through Scholastic anymore.

If this book were about a different religion/culture–probably even if it were focused on a different Christian group–it would not be supported in the same way. A book about killing the main religious figure of another faith, even couched in fantasy language, would not be advertised on the walls of a public school library.

Over all we have an excellent school district, usually very conservative, and we really like my daughter’s school. this is just one small thing she’d like to have changed and I support her in asking about it.
Social action is usually based upon inalienable ‘rights’ - food, shelter, clothing, life for all people.

Taking action in a public school setting to remove one poster because one person opposes it is censorship. It is the same ‘social action’ which ended up getting prayer out of our schools and is encroaching upon removing ‘under God’ from the pledge of allegiance - only in reverse.

What you are teaching your daughter is that it is ok - because she is Catholic - to advocate dictating what non-catholics view in a non-catholic setting. ** If this were a Catholic school setting I’d offer several suggestions to get the posters off the shelf and to be sure no book-sales-organizations promote the books on the catholic campus.**
But because this is a publicly funded school, paid by the taxpayers who are of varying religious faiths, no one person has the ‘right’ to dictate what posters are on display - over that of what the state allows, that is, since it is first and foremost, a state-run/paid-for institution.

We’re talking about promoting literature, reading. There **is **a market for these books and if it encourages people to read, the state has no business saying otherwise. Just as the state run school permits the Chronicles of Narnia to be promoted on campus, and other books/cds and such promoting Christmas - including the concept of Jesus being the savior of the world and such. How do you tell your daughter it is within her athiest classmate’s ‘right’ to advocate against the school allowing such ‘literature’ to be available on campus? The position is hypocritical, and that’s not Catholic.

Get your daughter to advocate against bullying, or for recycling or something the state supports which is good for all people but for some odd reason is not being practiced. She will not face as much of an uphill battle and therefore will be able to see fruitful results from her efforts. That will encourage her to tackle the tougher issues down the line.

The point of advocacy is to better the community overall, not to dictate what literature should be permitted/promoted on campus, unless, of course, we’re talking about pornography - but that’s because it’s illegal according to state law - the state does not support it so it doesn’t belong in a state institution.
 
Hi, Sr Sally:

If I may just suggest, if it is at all possible, I would, if you could, either send your child to Catholic school or home school them.

I went through the American secular atheistic socialistic public school system, and I have nothing good to say about it; I have all sorts of stories I could tell about the nonsense that goes on at them, and that tries to pass as “education.”

Since you do have a daughter, I would be doubly concerned,
There is no discipline at these schools, even the at the school district I went to, which was in one of the highest income property tax of this state, and was within one of the “top 10” public schools in the state.

Boys, as they reach the later elementary school years and middle school years, and to a lesser extent in high school, often take advantage of this lack of supervision and discipline, and will commit acts against female students which would be classified as Criminal Sexual Conduct misdemeanors and possibly felonies in my state. Teachers don’t want to have to bother to enforce discipline (it would mean working harder and getting involved) so they look the other way, and that is why the students are murdering each other.

I realize a lot of Catholic schools are also a roll of the dice as far as whether they are Catholic enough, but I will tell you, God and religion are not mentioned at all in the American public school system and are not viewed as something that should be part of your life, by both students and faculty, except maybe a very small handful of people (I remember two people who were religious, one student and one faculty member, and even they hardly talked about it) and religion is treated with indifference and hostility.

I’ve heard most of the students are also like that at Catholic schools, but I think, take one consideration with another, your daughter would be better off at a Catholic school or home schooled, if possible.
 
Teachers don’t want to have to bother to enforce discipline (it would mean working harder and getting involved) so they look the other way, and that is why the students are murdering each other.
It may appear that teachers are to blame, but we aren’t. It is the left-wing child right’s activists who raped away all our disciplinary rights, in an effort to improve, “self-esteem.” As a result, the bullies run the schools, knowing that the teachers don’t have the authority to effectively discipline them. As a result, EVERYONE’S self-esteem gets lowered. Sadly, this sometimes leads to students who feel helpless, unable to defend themselves, and unable to rely on their teachers who have no disciplinary rights, to try taking matters into their own hands with illegal weapons. If only corporal punishment was reinstated, our schools would be much better, but that’s on another thread with a poll, in I believe the “family life,” or maybe “parenting” section.
 
Our local Catholic schools will not be carrying this book in their library and will not be holding book fairs through Scholastic anymore.

If this book were about a different religion/culture–probably even if it were focused on a different Christian group–it would not be supported in the same way. A book about killing the main religious figure of another faith, even couched in fantasy language, would not be advertised on the walls of a public school library.

Over all we have an excellent school district, usually very conservative, and we really like my daughter’s school. this is just one small thing she’d like to have changed and I support her in asking about it.
I think its great that you are supporting your daughter in being active and taking a stand. All I ask is please realize that to have a book pulled or a poster pulled down in a public school over a book is a lot harder than say a Catholic school. It might be better not to have her fight against something (ex. the Golden Compass poster) and have her fight for something (ex. maybe doing a display about the Chronicles of Narnia). No matter how it turns it if you daughter takes a stand, is articulate, and respectful she will get a few people’s attention. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Historybrat
 
I agree that it is not the teachers who are to blame totally. Parents have a huge hand in this. Parents cannot raise their child too permissively, with little guidance or support, and then expect teachers to ‘fix’ that child. On the other hand, we have many well-off parents in this district who expect special treatment for their children and will not tolerate average grades for their child–even if the child is only turning in average work. Between those two extremes many good teachers are stuggling in a society that doesn’t truly advocate hard work and discipline.
It may appear that teachers are to blame, but we aren’t. It is the left-wing child right’s activists who raped away all our disciplinary rights, in an effort to improve, “self-esteem.” As a result, the bullies run the schools, knowing that the teachers don’t have the authority to effectively discipline them. As a result, EVERYONE’S self-esteem gets lowered. Sadly, this sometimes leads to students who feel helpless, unable to defend themselves, and unable to rely on their teachers who have no disciplinary rights, to try taking matters into their own hands with illegal weapons. If only corporal punishment was reinstated, our schools would be much better, but that’s on another thread with a poll, in I believe the “family life,” or maybe “parenting” section.
 
Hi, Sr Sally:

If I may just suggest, if it is at all possible, I would, if you could, either send your child to Catholic school or home school them.
In general I agree with you. However, due to various circumstances, our children are in public schools. On the whole, we are very happy with our decision and even this issue of the poster is not a huge deal. In fact, just because it isn’t that big of an issue is why I thought it would be a good starting point for her. If she is sucessful, that will be wonderful. If she is not, she will have learned a great deal and all the harm will be a simple poster that probably 3/4 of the students walk by without even noticing.
 
In light of the USCCB’s positive review of the movie,
usccb.org/movies/g/thegoldencompass.shtml
I suspect you would have a very difficult time convincing the school to remove the poster.
I have read several similar reviews. Since the movie ends before the first novel does, the entire issue of killing God is left out of the movie. I have read interviews with the director (who apparently loves the books) that he does plan to include all that in future movies. I do read the USCCB’s reviews, but I also read other reviews designed for parents that spell out specific troublesome scenes in movies.
 
So when say, a pro Catholic movie/book poster is put up, and someone objects, and insists on it being pulled, don’t get upset.

Perhaps a better thing to do would be to see if your daughter could put up the aforementioned rebuttal poster, or perhaps do a presentation on the book (though this would require her to read it).

Perhaps she could work up a display of pro Christian/Catholic books in the library, for others who dislike this book?
This would, IMO be a better way to get her point across, w/o seeming to be ‘one of THOSE Christians’. That usually just puts others even farther away from God. Sad, but true.
 
So when say, a pro Catholic movie/book poster is put up, and someone objects, and insists on it being pulled, don’t get upset.

Perhaps a better thing to do would be to see if your daughter could put up the aforementioned rebuttal poster, or perhaps do a presentation on the book (though this would require her to read it).

**Perhaps she could work up a display of pro Christian/Catholic books in the library, for others who dislike this book?**This would, IMO be a better way to get her point across, w/o seeming to be ‘one of THOSE Christians’. That usually just puts others even farther away from God. Sad, but true.
This is an excellent suggestion and just the kind of idea I was looking for. Thank you.
 
So, Sr Sally, I was just wondering, did you ever get a chance to talk to these school officials?? If so, what did they say??

The Golden Compass books and film wasn’t like the Harry Potter books. I heard of those long before they made the first film.

On the next Friday after the film was released, I read a story in the Wall Street Journal (one week too late, IMO) which explained more about the author, books, and film.

This is a rotten story, and in the book and film it describes the main characters struggle against a group called the Magisterium (which in the real world is the name of the Catholic Church’s teaching authority).

This book and film just sounds like an attack / satire on Catholicism, and I think any school that endorses such a story by placing a poster in its school library does a great disservice to and offends its students who are Catholic.

Why don’t these schools instead try to encourage their students to read Shakespeare or Homer??
 
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