Help ...have I been duped?

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Today representatives from our diocese Marriage Ministry program labeled Christopher West’s presentation of the Theology of the Body (TOB) as unhealthy and too judgmental and the need to empasize instead the intimacy and closeness of married sexual love. They likewise felt that the NFP presentation portion needs to be severly scaled back to a simple 10 minute overview and resource references provided for those interested in investigating further. What gives?

I never had any problem with Christopher West’s TOB as a credible and reliable source for understanding and applying John Paul II’s TOB. I would appreciate any intelligent critique of Chistopher West’s TOB to qualify the bad rap given by these diocesan Marriage Ministry folks who are seeking (name removed by moderator)ut by myself and others in order to revampt the Marriage Preparation Program content which has been including JPII’s TOB. Are there any other credible presentations of TOB that offer a different and “heathier” view of married sexual love?
 
setter said:
Today representatives from our diocese Marriage Ministry program labeled Christopher West’s presentation of the Theology of the Body (TOB) as unhealthy and too judgmental and the need to empasize instead the intimacy and closeness of married sexual love. They likewise felt that the NFP presentation portion needs to be severly scaled back to a simple 10 minute overview and resource references provided for those interested in investigating further. What gives?

I never had any problem with Christopher West’s TOB as a credible and reliable source for understanding and applying John Paul II’s TOB. I would appreciate any intelligent critique of Chistopher West’s TOB to qualify the bad rap given by these diocesan Marriage Ministry folks who are seeking (name removed by moderator)ut by myself and others in order to revampt the Marriage Preparation Program content which has been including JPII’s TOB. Are there any other credible presentations of TOB that offer a different and “heathier” view of married sexual love?
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Did the Marriage Ministry give reasons for the conclusions about Christopher West?
 
Ahimsa said:
Did the Marriage Ministry give reasons for the conclusions about Christopher West?
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No, they moved on in the discussion when i ventured to ask what about his TOB presentation did they find “unhealthy”. They did state with sarcasm that Christopher West has a DVD for marriage preparation but that he is the only presenter in absence of any others, especially any married couples, presenting a marriage prep talk about sexuality.
 
I attended one of Christopher West’s not too long ago. It was a beautiful presentation on marriage as a vocation. The points from TOB that were stressed were that marital intimacy is a beautiful gift from God, and that the natural fruits of this gift are children. In regard to birth control, they discussed the fact that artificial methods place a barrier between spouses and in fact, prevents them from giving a complete gift of self to each other.

My guess is that somebody who would complain of these talks being “too judgmental” or “unhealthy” probably was feeling a gentle prodding from the Holy Spirit to re-examine their own views on these subjects, or perhaps even feeling some good old fashioned Catholic guilt if they are not living this teaching. It was completely orthodox, with no excuses for the fact that Catholic teaching on marital intimacy and birth control do not conform to the world’s views on the subject.

Peace!
 
Did they give any worth substitutes for learning about TOB?
 
He tells it like it is. Some people have a problem with that.
—KCT
 
Wow first I’ve ever heard of any thing like that! Our pre-cana class was about a hundred years ago 😛 , but we had a very good presentation about married sex and intimacy from a married couple. I wish they had been a bit older–even though they were married, they were probably younger than 3/4 of the engaged couples there! If they aren’t going to have a presentation by an orthodox couple talking about the realities of church teaching, than the Theology of the Body DVD is a good substitute.

You should probably write some thoughts down and either address the group again on this or send a letter to them and to the Bishop or whoever on his staff is the head of this.
 
I say you should have a meeting and ask them to be very specific in their critique. I sense similar issues that others have mentioned… namely that they have found something that could make the question how they have lived or atleast what they think now. Then show these arguments to the bishop and ask him if he believes what they say makes sense. Chances are, the bishop could intervene because their complaints really are complaints about fundamental teachings.
Also, people tend to mislable things as judgemental when they truly aren’t. To pass judgement means to place a punishment on someone. For instance, a court case is not about finding out typically if murder is right or wrong, but rather if this act as been committed. We say whether actions are right or wrong all the time… it is unavoidable… I mean they are passing judgement then on this video. Point this out to them maybe… though I sense they will not be receptive to it.
 
Sr_Sally said:
Wow first I’ve ever heard of any thing like that! Our pre-cana class was about a hundred years ago 😛 , but we had a very good presentation about married sex and intimacy from a married couple. I wish they had been a bit older–even though they were married, they were probably younger than 3/4 of the engaged couples there! If they aren’t going to have a presentation by an orthodox couple talking about the realities of church teaching, than the Theology of the Body DVD is a good substitute.

You should probably write some thoughts down and either address the group again on this or send a letter to them and to the Bishop or whoever on his staff is the head of this.
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Just wanted to say that I agree with your post. Being a huge fan of Christopher West, I am a bit biased, but taking a step back and looking at his talks objectively, I cannot find a reason that they would be so put off.

Here is my honest opinion. One of those persons that came to this decision is not comfortable with what Christopher West has said because it “hits too close to home” for them and they made it a point to try and get this excluded because they do not agree with what he says. That makes me what the program even more. I am afraid this is the situation that you may have found yourself in, someone does not like it and wants to push that off on others so that do not have to feel convicted for what they are doing.
 
Today representatives from our diocese Marriage Ministry program labeled Christopher West’s presentation of the Theology of the Body (TOB) as unhealthy and too judgmental and the need to empasize instead the intimacy and closeness of married sexual love. They likewise felt that the NFP presentation portion needs to be severly scaled back to a simple 10 minute overview and resource references provided for those interested in investigating further. What gives?
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I never had any problem with Christopher West’s TOB as a credible and reliable source for understanding and applying John Paul II’s TOB. I would appreciate any intelligent critique of Chistopher West’s TOB to qualify the bad rap given by these diocesan Marriage Ministry folks who are seeking (name removed by moderator)ut by myself and others in order to revampt the Marriage Preparation Program content which has been including JPII’s TOB. Are there any other credible presentations of TOB that offer a different and “heathier” view of married sexual love?
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Christopher West’s emphasis is nearly perfect; he is extremely positive about marital love, and he is very good at convicting his listeners that the hard truth about human sexuality is warm and loving. Honestly, my first impression is that these represenatatives don’t get that the harsh, difficult truth about sexual sin and the nature of marital sex is positive and loving when properly understood. Unless the Marriage Ministry representatives can offer some concrete dispute with something West teaches, then there is almost certainly something amiss here.

As to the scaling back of his NFP presentation, that may be legit. If the Marriage Ministry reps feel that a brief but positive presentation of NFP and a thorough listing of resources will suffice for the marriage prep classes themselves, that’s probably perfectly legit, provided that they are also prepared to answer any questions asked about NFP (in or out of class is fine). Just be sure it is absolutely clear that contraception is never an option and that the circumstances in which NFP can morally be used are known.

God bless!
 
“Are there any other credible presentations of TOB that offer a different and “heathier” view of married sexual love?”

Just one more thought –

I don’t believe you can find a “different” view that will be healthier, because West is right on with church teaching. I recommend reading the Catechism, and if you have time, read TOB yourself. But if you do want to provide a “different” view for the marriage ministry’s consideration, you could check Janet Smith’s materials - they’ll love those, too 👍
 
representatives from our diocese Marriage Ministry program labeled Christopher West’s presentation of the Theology of the Body (TOB) as unhealthy and too judgmental
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Too judgmental?

Yes, you have been duped. Relativists have taken over your diocese marriage ministry.
 
Thank you all for the responses. I hope to further clarify their negative labelling of Christopher West’s TOB presentation further. I have personally found his presentations as positive and empowering to know, defend and live the fullness of what the Church teaches.
 
setter said:
They likewise felt that the NFP presentation portion needs to be severly scaled back to a simple 10 minute overview and resource references provided for those interested in investigating further. What gives?QUOTE]

TEN MINUTES about NFP? Is this couple that uncomfortable talking about something so important for Catholic couples? Where else will couples preparing for marriage receive adequate instruction about NFP? Ask this couple if they believe in the Church’s teachings against contraception. Ask them if THEY use NFP in their marriage. If they even hesitate, please get thy behind to the bishop’s office to talk to him about this very important issue.

Thank you for paying attention to the goings on in your diocese!.
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Christopher West’s “ministry” started as in the Diocese of Denver when he was asked to put together the marriage prep program. His whole series and personal ministry promoting Theology of the Body is an outgrowth of that.

With all charity, it seems to me, based on their non-specific comments about CW’s presentations (anyone can call anyone else “judgmental”) and the comments about NFP, that these people are not interested in promoting Church teachings on sexuality and contraception.

If nothing else, the comment about NFP denotes a serious departure from authentic Catholic doctrine. These people should be reported top the bishop immediately, primarily for their comment about NFP. No further clarification is needed.
 
Father Altier’s Marriage Preparation Classes in MP3 format covers sexuality along with other topics. It is excellent and I wish I’d had access to these talks before we got married.

trueteaching.net/Other/
 
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