Help, I can't find a certain verse

[danzibr]

I’ve tried google but I don’t remember the verse well enough to use the right keywords, I guess. It’s similar to Proverbs 28:26.

Basically it says to not trust your own interpretation of scripture, if I recall correctly.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nita]

A couple of passages that come to my mind:

2 Peter 1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

and further along in that same epistle:

2 Peter 3:15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 3:16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.

 

[Joe_5859]

Or maybe the story of the Ethipoian eunuch in Acts:

Acts 8:30 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 He replied, “How can I, unless someone instructs me?” So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.

 

[mercytruth]

I’ve tried google but I don’t remember the verse well enough to use the right keywords, I guess. It’s similar to Proverbs 28:26.

Basically it says to not trust your own interpretation of scripture, if I recall correctly.

Thanks in advance.

If you are thinking of Proverbs 3:5-8, then Proverbs 3:5-8 has more to do with not trusting one’s own will, judgment, and reasoning, but trusting in the will of God and his wisdom in directing our ways. Much of God’s will and wisdom is given to us through the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The scripture in 2 Peter 1:20 has more to do with the interpretation of prophecy, (such as the book of Revelations, the Olivet discourse, and some ‘prophetic’ words of the the apostle Paul) which are different from the moral teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 3:5-8:

Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.
Be not wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord, and turn away from evil.
It will be healing to your flesh
and refreshmentc to your bones.

God’s peace be with you

 

[Nita]

The scripture in 2 Peter 1:20 has more to do with the interpretation of prophecy, (such as the book of Revelations, the Olivet discourse, and some ‘prophetic’ words of the the apostle Paul) which are different from the moral teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Prophecy is not limited to foretelling future events - altho many mistakenly think that is what it means. Prophecy refers to the God inspired/revealed message delivered by a prophet.

Scripture is God’s inspired message to us. Those who proclaimed it are His prophets. John is a prophet in his gospels and epistles, not just the Book of Revelation. Likewise Peter is a prophet in his epistles because he is proclaiming to us God inspired messages.

 

[mercytruth]

Prophecy is not limited to foretelling future events - altho many mistakenly think that is what it means. Prophecy refers to the God inspired/revealed message delivered by a prophet.

Scripture is God’s inspired message to us. Those who proclaimed it are His prophets. John is a prophet in his gospels and epistles, not just the Book of Revelation. Likewise Peter is a prophet in his epistles because he is proclaiming to us God inspired messages.

To a certain extent you are correct. All scripture is inspired by ‘prophets’, but not all scripture is written in prophetic symbolism. The epistles of the apostles were often read to the congregations for their edification. Ezra read the Torah to the people of Israel for their instruction as they were standing. Jesus in relating his parables, said, 'he that has ears to hear, let him hear."
Jesus also said, that our heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask of Him.

Therefore, one does not need an intepreter for understanding the Torah, the epistles of the apostles, or even the teachings of Jesus Christ, one needs a willing heart and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God’s peace be with you

micah

 

[Nita]

To a certain extent you are correct. All scripture is inspired by ‘prophets’, but not all scripture is written in prophetic symbolism. The epistles of the apostles were often read to the congregations for their edification. Ezra read the Torah to the people of Israel for their instruction as they were standing. Jesus in relating his parables, said, 'he that has ears to hear, let him hear."
Jesus also said, that our heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask of Him.

Therefore, one does not need an intepreter for understanding the Torah, the epistles of the apostles, or even the teachings of Jesus Christ, one needs a willing heart and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God’s peace be with you

micah

*2 Peter 1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, *

Prophecy is not limited to messages given in symbolic language. In verse 20, St. Peter does not restrict his meaning to only those parts of Scripture written in symbolic language. If you read the verses preceding this line (verses 1-20) you will see that St. Peter is talking about Christian teaching - which in verse 19 he calls the “prophetic word”.

Unfortuinately we do need interpreters even when symbolic language is not used. If we didn’t, there would be a whole lot less officially defined Catholic doctrines. And all Christian denominations would believe the same things about the Trinity, grace, salvation, morality…

The 2nd quote from that epistle (2 Peter 3:16) does follow after some discussion about Our Lord’s second coming. But verse 16 is in specific reference to St. Paul’s letters and the bulk of his letters is not about the end times, nor are his letters written in symbolic language. Off hand I can’t think of any that use apocalyptic symbolism, unless some consider his wording in 2 Thess 2 as such.

 

[mercytruth]

*2 Peter 1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, *

Prophecy is not limited to messages given in symbolic language. In verse 20, St. Peter does not restrict his meaning to only those parts of Scripture written in symbolic language. If you read the verses preceding this line (verses 1-20) you will see that St. Peter is talking about Christian teaching - which in verse 19 he calls the “prophetic word”.

Unfortuinately we do need interpreters even when symbolic language is not used. If we didn’t, there would be a whole lot less officially defined Catholic doctrines.

The 2nd quote from that epistle (2 Peter 3:16) does follow after some discussion about Our Lord’s second coming. But verse 16 is in specific reference to St. Paul’s letters and the bulk of his letters is not about the end times, nor are his letters written in symbolic language. Off hand I can’t think of any that use apocalyptic symbolism, unless some consider his wording in 2 Thess 2 as such.

Then I do not know why we even have three scripture readings during Sunday’s Mass. You have your Catholic conviction, but it is contradicted from the perspective of apostolic tradition and the writings of the early church fathers.

Usually by the mouth of two or more witnesses doctrine is established. You have given us one scripture reference which is contradicted by the apostle John in his first epistle, by the writer of the letter to the Hebrews, and by the Constitutions of the Apostles.

Most likely we will continue to disagree on this issue.

I personally believe that the moral teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ are far more important than obtuse theological discussions that are outside the realm of the twelve pillars of our Christian faith…namely, the Apostle’s Creed.

May God’s peace be with you

micah

 

[PJM]

=danzibr;10070916]I’ve tried google but I don’t remember the verse well enough to use the right keywords, I guess. It’s similar to Proverbs 28:26.

Basically it says to not trust your own interpretation of scripture, if I recall correctly.

Thanks in advance.

Is this what you’re looking for

2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 “You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

2nd. Peter 3: 14-17 “Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability

God Bless,

pat/PJM

 

[Nita]

Then I do not know why we even have three scripture readings during Sunday’s Mass. You have your Catholic conviction, but it is contradicted from the perspective of apostolic tradition and the writings of the early church fathers.

Usually by the mouth of two or more witnesses doctrine is established. You have given us one scripture reference which is contradicted by the apostle John in his first epistle, by the writer of the letter to the Hebrews, and by the Constitutions of the Apostles.

Most likely we will continue to disagree on this issue.

I personally believe that the moral teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ are far more important than obtuse theological discussions that are outside the realm of the twelve pillars of our Christian faith…namely, the Apostle’s Creed.

May God’s peace be with you

micah

You are right, we disagree on almost every topic mentioned in your post, especially how doctrine is established! But it is not your convictions or mine that determine Catholic truth, it is what the Church’s Magisterium proclaims that determines Catholic truth.

We do however agree on God’s peace;
May His blessings and peace be with you also,
Nita

 

[PJM]

=mercytruth;10073385]Then I do not know why we even have three scripture readings during Sunday’s Mass. You have your Catholic conviction, but it is contradicted from the perspective of apostolic tradition and the writings of the early church fathers.

Usually by the mouth of two or more witnesses doctrine is established. You have given us one scripture reference which is contradicted by the apostle John in his first epistle, by the writer of the letter to the Hebrews, and by the Constitutions of the Apostles.

Most likely we will continue to disagree on this issue.

I personally believe that the moral teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ are far more important than obtuse theological discussions that are outside the realm of the twelve pillars of our Christian faith…namely, the Apostle’s Creed.

May God’s peace be with you

My dear friend in Christ micah,

There is only One Infallible rule for right understanding of the bible, and your post brings it into question.

That Infallible Rule is this:

Never-ever, can, may, or does one passage of the bible make void, invalidate, override or contradict another when BOTH are rightly understood:thumbsup:

The solid logic behind this is that were it even the most remote possibility [it’s not]; then the entire Bible being called into question would be worthless to teach or learn ones faith.

If you would please be so kind and to provide the specifics; we’ll try to explain what if any differences there are and why.

The reason there are multiple bible reading lies in the following Wisdom of God’s Inspired Fathers of the Early Church.

1. Next to the Eucharist which IS Jesus Himself in signifiance and importance is
2. God’s Divinely Inspired and protected WORDS of Teaching us. [2 Tim. 3:16; John 17:15-19]
3. The CC uses “reading cycles” of A, B. and C years for readings
4. For those of us who participate in Daily Mass; we can abd DO then hear the ENTIRE bible read and explained to us within this 3 year cycle.
5. Because God’s WORDS is “truth” John 14:6 “Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me” the Fathers wisely provide mutiple evidences of it [the main lesson for that day] so that it cannot be logically or biblically denined. Have you noticed that almost awayls they are on a common “theme?”

So now, having framed our dialog and provided a Rock Solid foundation; we can address your specifc issues of concern.

Caution is advided is not accepting ALL of the teachings of God and Christ. Such action can easily lead one astray.

“Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God is tested; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Add nothing to his words, lest he reprimand you, and you be proved a liar.

Mark 7:13 “Making void the word of God by your own tradition, *[practice based on your own interpretation] which you have given forth. And many other such like things you do.”

**Luke 4:4 **“And Jesus answered him: It is written, that Man liveth not by bread alone, but by every word of God.”

Luke 11:28 “But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it”

2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 “You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

2nd. Peter 3: 14-17 “So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability"

God Bless you!

Pat /Pjm**

 

[mercytruth]

My dear friend in Christ micah,

There is only One Infallible rule for right understanding of the bible, and your post brings it into question.

That Infallible Rule is this:

Never-ever, can, may, or does one passage of the bible make void, invalidate, override or contradict another when BOTH are rightly understood:thumbsup:

The solid logic behind this is that were it even the most remote possibility [it’s not]; then the entire Bible being called into question would be worthless to teach or learn ones faith.

If you would please be so kind and to provide the specifics; we’ll try to explain what if any differences there are and why.

The reason there are multiple bible reading lies in the following Wisdom of God’s Inspired Fathers of the Early Church.

1. Next to the Eucharist which IS Jesus Himself in signifiance and importance is
2. God’s Divinely Inspired and protected WORDS of Teaching us. [2 Tim. 3:16; John 17:15-19]
3. The CC uses “reading cycles” of A, B. and C years for readings
4. For those of us who participate in Daily Mass; we can abd DO then hear the ENTIRE bible read and explained to us within this 3 year cycle.
5. Because God’s WORDS is “truth” John 14:6 “Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me” the Fathers wisely provide mutiple evidences of it [the main lesson for that day] so that it cannot be logically or biblically denined. Have you noticed that almost awayls they are on a common “theme?”

So now, having framed our dialog and provided a Rock Solid foundation; we can address your specifc issues of concern.

Caution is advided is not accepting ALL of the teachings of God and Christ. Such action can easily lead one astray.

“Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God is tested; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Add nothing to his words, lest he reprimand you, and you be proved a liar.

Mark 7:13 “Making void the word of God by your own tradition, [practice based on your own interpretation*] which you have given forth. And many other such like things you do.”

**Luke 4:4 **“And Jesus answered him: It is written, that Man liveth not by bread alone, but by every word of God.”

Luke 11:28 “But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it”

2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 “You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

2nd. Peter 3: 14-17 “So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability"

God Bless you!

Pat /Pjm

Dear Pat in Christ Jesus,

Sometimes, there are issues that are not settled by consensus, because there is no consensus. The Catholic church has interpreted 2 Peter 1:20 to mean all of scripture is not of private interpretation. Despite the fact that there are other scriptures which state that we do not need teachers to intepret the Word of God for us.

As it was in the days of Moses there were elders who handled controversies regarding the implementation of the Torah, with Moses judging the most difficult controversies. I am not referring to difficult, or complex moral situations in which two parties are in disagreement, or where there needs to be some sort of moral guideline. (The conflict within the Church in Antioch over which aspects of the law were to be kept is such an example.)

No, what I am referring to is the basic understanding of scriptures which all believers come to share as they are gifted with the Holy Spirit and humbly seek for God’s wisdom.

The instructions given to the laity of the early church as to what books the believers should read, and the manner and usage in which they should read them, speaks to this issue at hand. It is a very Jewish approach to the reading and studying of sacred scripture. It is from: Book I, Section II, Chapters 4-6 of the Constitutions of the Apostles.

newadvent.org/fathers/07151.htm

God’s peace and blessings be with you

micah

 

[danzibr]

Well, thanks for the responses all. Great verses. Unfortunately they’re not what I had in mind. I suppose I may be imagining something… I’ll keep looking.