Help! I keep considering Mormonism!

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Holly3278

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Could somebody please help me with staying Catholic? I want to stay Catholic so badly but the doctrines of Mormonism keep attracting me the other way! 😦 I like the idea of being together forever with my future spouse and I like the idea that nearly everybody will make it to some level of Heaven. Please show me how these doctrines are wrong and discourage me from going back to the Mormon church! I really don’t want to go back! I know that the Catholic Church is God’s Church on earth but I need to know for sure that Mormonism is wrong because as long as I am not sure of it, I am considering going back. That and I actually have a friend who goes to the Mormon church while I have very few close friends who go to the Catholic Church. Please help me! :eek:

Also, I do not want any Mormons in here trying to defend the Mormon church. That would only confuse me more and I do not want confusion at this time. If I want a Mormon’s perspective on things, I’ll ask a Mormon so if you’re a Mormon, I kindly and politely ask you to refrain from attempting to defend your church in here.
 
No offense or anything, but who cares if “you like the idea of…”. How on earth does that make it true? Just because you like the idea of something doesn’t mean it is objectively that way, unless you’re God.

Mormonism is probably one of the weakest religions when it comes to both internal coherence and correspondence to Christian theology, and also in terms of its material claims. I mean, ancient Jews living in South America?!

Did you know they actually teach that the Jews “Nephites” lived in South America, built huge cities that have never been found, used technology that was never used there (iron for example), and that America is the promised land?

Oh yeah, and they originally taught blacks were the offspring of Cain and the black skin was a curse from God. They changed that though, and they can change doctrine any time they want.

I have an idea, in my religion, the rivers will flow with whiskey, and the jails made of tin, so when they throw you in there, you can break right out again… in the big rock candy mountain…
 
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Holly3278:
Also, I do not want any Mormons in here trying to defend the Mormon church. That would only confuse me more and I do not want confusion at this time. If I want a Mormon’s perspective on things, I’ll ask a Mormon so if you’re a Mormon, I kindly and politely ask you to refrain from attempting to defend your church in here.
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I don’t have much expereince with Mormonism. But I do know that there are a few ex-Mormons here who have converted to the Catholic faith. They should be along shortly to help you. 🙂
 
mschrank said:
No offense or anything, but who cares if “you like the idea of…”. How on earth does that make it true? Just because you like the idea of something doesn’t mean it is objectively that way, unless you’re God.

Mormonism is probably one of the weakest religions when it comes to both internal coherence and correspondence to Christian theology, and also in terms of its material claims. I mean, ancient Jews living in South America?!

Did you know they actually teach that the Jews “Nephites” lived in South America, built huge cities that have never been found, used technology that was never used there (iron for example), and that America is the promised land?

Oh yeah, and they originally taught blacks were the offspring of Cain and the black skin was a curse from God. They changed that though, and they can change doctrine any time they want.

I have an idea, in my religion, the rivers will flow with whiskey, and the jails made of tin, so when they throw you in there, you can break right out again… in the big rock candy mountain…
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Don’t worry, I don’t take offense at your post. It is silly of me to consider Mormonism just because I “like some of their doctrines”. I am sorry if I have offended you in any way. I get the feeling that you are a little angry with me or something though I could very well be wrong about that.

Also, I didn’t know about the cities that have never been found thing. Thanks for telling me about that.

I did hear before that they teach that blacks were the descendants of Cain though. I strongly disagree with that teaching.

I also did not fully realize (maybe partly but not fully) that they can change doctrines whenever they want. I also disagree with that. Doctrines should never be changed. I’m sure doctrines can be updated or revised but not outright deleted or totally changed.
Camron said:
I don’t have much expereince with Mormonism. But I do know that there are a few ex-Mormons here who have converted to the Catholic faith. They should be along shortly to help you. 🙂
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Ok, I look forward to their help. 🙂
mschrank said:
Oh yeah, check this out too. Watch the whole thing.

youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo
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I’m on dial-up but I will go to the library here in a little while and watch it there. 👍
 
Well, it looks like I am going to have to watch that YouTube video at home. The library has blocked the YouTube site on their computers.

Meanwhile, could somebody please help refute the following doctrines with either scripture verses or something else?:


  1. *]Marriage is forever. If you get sealed in the temple, you’ll be married to your spouse even in Heaven.
    *]Some evidence of the Great Apostasy is that the Church was paganized when Constantine legalized Christianity.
    *]There are three levels of Heaven.

    Thanks everyone! If you all could help me with those doctrines, it’d be great. 👍 If not, I’ll still not go back to Mormonism. I have no intention of going back whatsoever especially considering some of their past and present doctrines. I just need to be more firm in my Catholic faith. 🙂 That is why I created this thread. Also, this thread would help me out in learning how to defeat any arguments of Mormons in the future who try to reconvert me.

    Also, I converted to Mormonism last year but have since come back to the Catholic Church. I confessed my sin and I soon plan to officially withdraw my membership from the Mormon church. This will require a meeting with the bishop (pastor) of the Mormon church. Any tips on how to handle that meeting will be greatly appreciated. 👍
 
Hi Holly, I didn’t mean to come across as angry. I apologize. Here are my comments on what you asked:
  1. Marriage is forever. If you get sealed in the temple, you’ll be married to your spouse even in Heaven.
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“Marriage” isn’t forever. It’s only while the spouses are alive. That’s why a woman was commanded to remarry her husband’s brother under the Law if the husband died “so his name would not be blotted out from Israel”. If marriage is forever, than remarriage is a no-no.

However, do not get upset. Remember that Christ says “behold, I make all things new” and He never takes away, only gives something back greater than we could ever imagine. I am sure that the love of spouses for each other does not cease once they have left this world, and there is no reason to believe that there will be no special bond in heaven.
  1. Some evidence of the Great Apostasy is that the Church was paganized when Constantine legalized Christianity.
Click to expand...
The Church is Christ’s kingdom. Wasn’t it written that the Messiah would come and bring his power to earth, disarming the worldly powers and principalities? Well, the Early Church Fathers believed that many of the pagan gods were actually demons worshipped as gods. Jesus was an exorcist- a warrior, he brought with him “the finger of God”. If you want a visual, think Gandalf in the beginning of “The Two Towers”. Jesus was not a nice guy with long hair, he was, in the spiritual realm, the most terrifying thing imaginable to the demons. Think about how the demons begged to be sent into the pigs rather than be thrown into the abyss.

He bound the “strong man” to plunder his house, that is, the world. The preternatural powers of oracles, magicians, mystics- they were real, and they were not from God.

When the Church came, Christ conquered these “gods” and unmasked them for who they were, and took their feast days and rituals from them. The various demons lost their human veneration, and Christ was worshiped in their place. This is what the Church did. It was not paganized, it Christianized paganism.
  1. There are three levels of Heaven.
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I have no idea where this one even comes from. My guess is Smith made it up.
 
By what authority are these doctrines established? The Catholic Church is built on doctrines passed by the resurrected Christ through to his Apostles, to whom he gave authority to shepherd the faithful through maintenance of the magisterium.Surrounding the life, teaching, death and resurrection of Christ are a cloud of witnesses, many of whose names are recorded in scripture, who also noted that He fulfilled prophecies consistently held by prophets of God for centuries past.

Against this, we have a fellow who says that a being claiming to be an angel showed up one day and told him to dig up the buried Book of Mormon.

I have respect for the Mormons’ faith and appreciate the many fine people who serve this country who are Mormon.

But as for me and my house, I’m going with the strength of evidence, and accepting what doctrine then must follow.

(And by the way, I have always understood that I will be with my wife in paradise after we have each passed into eternity. I may not have my own planet, but I’ll gladly swap that for fullness of knowledge and admission into the presence of God.)
 
Holly3278 said:
Well, it looks like I am going to have to watch that YouTube video at home. The library has blocked the YouTube site on their computers.

Meanwhile, could somebody please help refute the following doctrines with either scripture verses or something else?:

Marriage is forever. If you get sealed in the temple, you’ll be married to your spouse even in Heaven.
Click to expand...
Remember the story that Jesus told, of the widow who had had seven husbands? The Saducees wanted to know, “If there is life after death, whose wife will she be, of the seven?” Jesus replied that, when we get to Heaven we will be like the angels, neither marrying nor giving in marriage.
*]Some evidence of the Great Apostasy is that the Church was paganized when Constantine legalized Christianity.
Click to expand...
This one is too complex for a soundbite, but if you look at the history, the Catholic Church was already doing everything that the Protestants don’t like, long before Constantine was even born.
*]There are three levels of Heaven.
Click to expand...
Jesus promised us “many mansions.” Dante thought there were actually seven levels of Heaven, but that’s just speculation. St. Paul refers to “seventh heaven” in one of his epistles. But I suspect that this is just a manner of speaking, and that in reality, there is only one Heaven, but different people experience it in different ways.
Also, I converted to Mormonism last year but have since come back to the Catholic Church. I confessed my sin and I soon plan to officially withdraw my membership from the Mormon church. This will require a meeting with the bishop (pastor) of the Mormon church. Any tips on how to handle that meeting will be greatly appreciated. 👍
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Tell him that God spoke to you and is calling you into the Catholic faith. Let him make of that whatever he wants.
 
mschrank said:
Hi Holly, I didn’t mean to come across as angry. I apologize. Here are my comments on what you asked:

“Marriage” isn’t forever. It’s only while the spouses are alive. That’s why a woman was commanded to remarry her husband’s brother under the Law if the husband died “so his name would not be blotted out from Israel”. If marriage is forever, than remarriage is a no-no.

However, do not get upset. Remember that Christ says “behold, I make all things new” and He never takes away, only gives something back greater than we could ever imagine. I am sure that the love of spouses for each other does not cease once they have left this world, and there is no reason to believe that there will be no special bond in heaven.

The Church is Christ’s kingdom. Wasn’t it written that the Messiah would come and bring his power to earth, disarming the worldly powers and principalities? Well, the Early Church Fathers believed that many of the pagan gods were actually demons worshipped as gods. Jesus was an exorcist- a warrior, he brought with him “the finger of God”. If you want a visual, think Gandalf in the beginning of “The Two Towers”. Jesus was not a nice guy with long hair, he was, in the spiritual realm, the most terrifying thing imaginable to the demons. Think about how the demons begged to be sent into the pigs rather than be thrown into the abyss.

He bound the “strong man” to plunder his house, that is, the world. The preternatural powers of oracles, magicians, mystics- they were real, and they were not from God.

When the Church came, Christ conquered these “gods” and unmasked them for who they were, and took their feast days and rituals from them. The various demons lost their human veneration, and Christ was worshiped in their place. This is what the Church did. It was not paganized, it Christianized paganism.

I have no idea where this one even comes from. My guess is Smith made it up.
Click to expand...
kurtstallings said:
By what authority are these doctrines established? The Catholic Church is built on doctrines passed by the resurrected Christ through to his Apostles, to whom he gave authority to shepherd the faithful through maintenance of the magisterium.Surrounding the life, teaching, death and resurrection of Christ are a cloud of witnesses, many of whose names are recorded in scripture, who also noted that He fulfilled prophecies consistently held by prophets of God for centuries past.

Against this, we have a fellow who says that a being claiming to be an angel showed up one day and told him to dig up the buried Book of Mormon.

I have respect for the Mormons’ faith and appreciate the many fine people who serve this country who are Mormon.

But as for me and my house, I’m going with the strength of evidence, and accepting what doctrine then must follow.

(And by the way, I have always understood that I will be with my wife in paradise after we have each passed into eternity. I may not have my own planet, but I’ll gladly swap that for fullness of knowledge and admission into the presence of God.)
Click to expand...
jmcrae said:
Remember the story that Jesus told, of the widow who had had seven husbands? The Saducees wanted to know, “If there is life after death, whose wife will she be, of the seven?” Jesus replied that, when we get to Heaven we will be like the angels, neither marrying nor giving in marriage.

This one is too complex for a soundbite, but if you look at the history, the Catholic Church was already doing everything that the Protestants don’t like, long before Constantine was even born.

Jesus promised us “many mansions.” Dante thought there were actually seven levels of Heaven, but that’s just speculation. St. Paul refers to “seventh heaven” in one of his epistles. But I suspect that this is just a manner of speaking, and that in reality, there is only one Heaven, but different people experience it in different ways.

Tell him that God spoke to you and is calling you into the Catholic faith. Let him make of that whatever he wants.
Click to expand...
Thank you all so much! Your replies are extremely helpful! 👍 👍 That is all I have for now. If I think of anything else, I’ll post it. 😉

Oh and Mschrank, don’t worry about coming across as angry. It’s ok. 🙂
 
Hi Holly,
Meanwhile, could somebody please help refute the following doctrines with either scripture verses or something else?:
Click to expand...
1. Marriage is forever. If you get sealed in the temple, you’ll be married to your spouse even in Heaven.

In Matthew 22 & Luke 20, Jesus teaches that there is no marriage in heaven.

Additionally, the doctrine of celestial marriage isn’t necessarily “forever” either. In Mormon teaching, if one person in a marriage goes to one heaven & the other person goes to another heaven, their marriage is void, & the person in the higher heaven is free to marry someone else who is in the same heaven.

2. Some evidence of the Great Apostasy is that the Church was paganized when Constantine legalized Christianity.
  • There are no historical facts which exist to back the claim up.
  • Distinctively Catholic beliefs (such as the papacy, sacraments, veneration of Mary, purgatory, etc.) were evident long before the fourth century, many before the emperor Constantine was even born.
  • Was Christ lying or mistaken when he promised that his Church would not be overcome?
  • Only the Catholic Church has an unbroken historical line to apostolic days.
  • No records of protests exist, which would be expected by “true Christians” to such a “paganization.”
  • Early Church writers not only stated Catholic beliefs that existed before Constantine, but neither had any conception of peculiarly Mormon doctrines, like celestial marriage or temple ceremonies.
3. There are three levels of Heaven.
The Bible does indeed say that there are “three heavens” (2 Cor. 12:2), but this doesn’t indicate that there are “three levels of heaven” as espoused by the LDS church.

Two other “heavens” are described.
  • The first mentioned heaven is the sky/atmosphere (as evidenced by Genesis 1:1, 7-8, among other verses.)
  • The second heaven is shown to be the universe, which contains the sun, moon & stars, as in Gen. 1:14 & other passages.
  • The third heaven is the realm of God, of which little is truly known about - it may not even exist in the physical universe.
I’d consider donating to Catholic Answers “Mormonism Project”, which has put together a report on the recent Mormon push to convert Catholics.
catholic.com/projects/mormonism.asp

Additionally, here are a couple of article This Rock magazine ran about Mormonism - both on it’s appeal & it’s unchristian concepts/doctrines.

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304fea3.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305fea4.asp

God Bless,

Chris
 
ChrisWRIT said:
Hi Holly,

1. Marriage is forever. If you get sealed in the temple, you’ll be married to your spouse even in Heaven.

In Matthew 22 & Luke 20, Jesus teaches that there is no marriage in heaven.

Additionally, the doctrine of celestial marriage isn’t necessarily “forever” either. In Mormon teaching, if one person in a marriage goes to one heaven & the other person goes to another heaven, their marriage is void, & the person in the higher heaven is free to marry someone else who is in the same heaven.

2. Some evidence of the Great Apostasy is that the Church was paganized when Constantine legalized Christianity.
  • There are no historical facts which exist to back the claim up.
  • Distinctively Catholic beliefs (such as the papacy, sacraments, veneration of Mary, purgatory, etc.) were evident long before the fourth century, many before the emperor Constantine was even born.
  • Was Christ lying or mistaken when he promised that his Church would not be overcome?
  • Only the Catholic Church has an unbroken historical line to apostolic days.
  • No records of protests exist, which would be expected by “true Christians” to such a “paganization.”
  • Early Church writers not only stated Catholic beliefs that existed before Constantine, but neither had any conception of peculiarly Mormon doctrines, like celestial marriage or temple ceremonies.
3. There are three levels of Heaven.
The Bible does indeed say that there are “three heavens” (2 Cor. 12:2), but this doesn’t indicate that there are “three levels of heaven” as espoused by the LDS church.

Two other “heavens” are described.
  • The first mentioned heaven is the sky/atmosphere (as evidenced by Genesis 1:1, 7-8, among other verses.)
  • The second heaven is shown to be the universe, which contains the sun, moon & stars, as in Gen. 1:14 & other passages.
  • The third heaven is the realm of God, of which little is truly known about - it may not even exist in the physical universe.
I’d consider donating to Catholic Answers “Mormonism Project”, which has put together a report on the recent Mormon push to convert Catholics.
catholic.com/projects/mormonism.asp

Additionally, here are a couple of article This Rock magazine ran about Mormonism - both on it’s appeal & it’s unchristian concepts/doctrines.

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304fea3.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305fea4.asp

God Bless,

Chris
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Ok thank you very much Chris. This helps a lot. You made a number of very good points! 👍
 
Holly3278 said:
I like the idea of being together forever with my future spouse and I like the idea that nearly everybody will make it to some level of Heaven…

QUOTE]

Holly, it’s nice to believe that each person will be “saved” but the scriptures are clear that because God gave us free will, we must choose to cooperate with God’s graces in order to attain salvation by His graces. We believe there is an individual (particular) judgment by God after we physically die - which means there’s no guarantee our spouse will make it to Heaven, let alone any of us.

We believe that in Heaven, there is perfect love, joy and unity. No impurity (sin), no divisions. There will be no need of marriage in Heaven, because here on earth, spouses are provided the gift of sex, which is both unitive and procreative in purpose – there’s no need to be procreative in Heaven.
… I actually have a friend who goes to the Mormon church while I have very few close friends who go to the Catholic Church. Please help me! :eek:
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Isaiah Bennett is a former Catholic priest who converted to Mormonism and then returned to the Catholic Faith. He spent two years as an active Mormon. Eventually he discovered the grave errors of Mormonism and returned to the Catholic Church.

He is the author of *When Mormons Call *- Answering Mormon missionaries at your door and *Inside Mormonism *- What Mormons Really Believe.

Both of these books are available at Catholic Answers.

Mr Bennett has appeared on Catholic Answers Live and if you go to the show archives you will be able to listen to these programmes.

February 11 1998
Title What Mormons Believe
Guest Isaiah Bennett

Jul 22, 1998
Sharing the Gospel with Mormons
Isaiah Bennett

Apr 28, 1999
Inside Mormonism
Isaiah Bennett

catholic.com/radio/calendar_search.php
 
Hi, I was raised in the Mormon church and will be baptized into the Catholic church on Saturday. 🙂

Major issues I have with mormon beliefs are:**
  • God the Father is a man, of flesh and blood, who once lived on another planet, and who was exalted to godhood.
    **
  • **Their founder, Joseph Smith, claimed that God revealed to him that polygamy is a commandment. Smith married at least 33 girls and women. Some were sisters to each other. Some were mother and daughter. Some were as young as 14 yrs old. And some who were already married. The married women sometimes went back to their first husbands.
Smith has other dubious things. He was arrested for treasure hunting, and conning people. He “translated” the Book of Mormon by putting a rock in his hat, and putting his face into the hat. Doing what, who knows, because the Book of Mormon is a plagarism, of the King James Version of the Bible, and a couple of other books and ideas that were popular in that era. One being " A View of the Hebrews". These books were rooted in the idea that the Inidan artifacts and remnants of a civilization in the area in which he lived were to advanced to have been built by the heathen, unintelligent, natives. So people made up stories about long lost, smarter, whiter, civilizations.

The Book of Mormon itself used to claim that if Native Americans lived “righteously”, their skin would be turned “white and delightsome”. It is a religion based on racist ideas, which over time have been softened. The Book of Mormon itself has more than 3000 changes to the text, something which is astounding for a book that is claimed to have been translated through the power of God.

As for the teaching of “families are forever”. The Catholic faith teaches you that we will all be together, one with God. The mormon teaching that you will be with a “family” has always been something they play up to win converts. Live your Catholic faith, and you will be with God, as will the people who you love if they do the same. The mormons have nothing above this.

As for heaven…what is hell, I guess is a question to ask. If heaven is being with God, knowing His immediate Love…then hell is to not know God in this way. The mormons believe their first level, or the “Celestial Kingdom” is the only heaven of their three that you will “be with God”. The other two “kingdoms of heaven” are devoid of God’s presence. Sounds like the same thing as hell to me.

Not to mention, this idea of three heavens comes straight out of book written by Emanuel Swedenborg. Yet more of Smith’s plagarisms.

Another glaring problem with Mormon scripture is the Pearl of Great Price. In it you will find the Book of Abraham. This piece of work is based on an Egyptian papyrus that Smith purchased from a traveling Egyptian show of sorts. A man had a few authentic Egyptian items…a mummy, some papyrus scrolls. Smith talked a friend into purchasing them. He “translated” the papyrus, which, is what the Book of Abraham is. It is a fanciful tale that claims God lives on a planet near the star Kolob. The original papyrus as translated, for real, and it is nothing but a common Egyptian funeral text. Smith’s “translation” is nothing but a imaginative story.

Stay with your Catholic faith. In Christ’s Church.
**
 
Thank you all for your posts. You all make great points! 👍

The reason why I was going to meet with my bishop is because I want to officially withdraw my name from the Mormon church. Does anyone know if I can do this simply by letter? :confused:
 
Holly3278 said:
Also, I converted to Mormonism last year but have since come back to the Catholic Church. I confessed my sin and I soon plan to officially withdraw my membership from the Mormon church. This will require a meeting with the bishop (pastor) of the Mormon church. Any tips on how to handle that meeting will be greatly appreciated. 👍
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There is no reason for you to meet with the bishop in order to have your name removed from the mormon church records. Just follow the instructions at MormonNoMore.
 
Holly, I am just posting to tell you: I have placed your name in my list of “permanent prayer intentions”. So whenever I pray, you will be in my prayers…
I am relieved that you are not considering going back to the Mormons, because I know that, while many of them are very nice family people, that their religion is simply not true.
I live near Palmyra, where Joseph Smith is supposed to have had his revelations, & while, as I say, I can respect Mormons for their family values, I can tell you that Smith’s reputation as a :eek: con artist is alive & well even today, amongst the rest of us in the area. Please always remember that one of the reasons that the Mormons have so many members comes from telling people what they want to hear. That does not make what they say true. It would be so sad to give up a spring of living water for something that is only a counterfeit.
Holly, if I may–please, have as little to do with the Mormon religion as possible. I can sense that some of the ones you know, are very good at spinning things, in order to make it more attractive to you.

God bless you & yours in this holy season,
Z
 
Zooey said:
Holly, I am just posting to tell you: I have placed your name in my list of “permanent prayer intentions”. So whenever I pray, you will be in my prayers…
I am relieved that you are not considering going back to the Mormons, because I know that, while many of them are very nice family people, that their religion is simply not true.
I live near Palmyra, where Joseph Smith is supposed to have had his revelations, & while, as I say, I can respect Mormons for their family values, I can tell you that Smith’s reputation as a :eek: con artist is alive & well even today, amongst the rest of us in the area. Please always remember that one of the reasons that the Mormons have so many members comes from telling people what they want to hear. That does not make what they say true. It would be so sad to give up a spring of living water for something that is only a counterfeit.
Holly, if I may–please, have as little to do with the Mormon religion as possible. I can sense that some of the ones you know, are very good at spinning things, in order to make it more attractive to you.

God bless you & yours in this holy season,
Z
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Ok. Thank you Zooey. I will have as little to do with Mormonism as possible. Thankfully, I did not make a ton of Mormon friends while in the church who are willing to try and convert me. My current Mormon friend seems to respect my faith a lot. 🙂
 
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