Help, I'm thinking about leaving the Church

[fred_conty]

My friend it was God who taught me to live this way, and in the Catholic church put your heart to it and you can do what Jesus tells us to do.

B] i once supported a woman who had no father for her two children, 5 and 7, Her sister once i should leave her she was a witch she told me. I stood up and told the sister never to say that and for 7 years at University i would help her. She hid her shame and fears under druggs and drink at times leaving her children. Her children began to love me and still do.
A friend (Jehovas witness) once looked at me and told me i was nuts for staying with her. I would pray as she did her things she desired. I did what Jesus did “to be with them BUT NOT as them” Some months latter my male friend said “I know why you are hear , you are the light in her darkness”
I did the same for 19 years with those I loved and worked with, who would only think i was nuts and would put me down. After 19 years i and some of them left the mill we worked at and one day I had a phone call. the men invited me to a meeting, I went and found that it was a christian meeting and after the meeting they told me how they used to feel but now they all knew I was right, and became christians. I only did what Jesus did…love them as they were.
You know within 6 months 5 of them died and they all said to me, “Don’t worry about me i know where I’m going” and they pointed up.
I prayed a novena that lasted 365 days each day of the year, and took about 4 hours per day all for my work mates. There is no saying I can’t do it, or i havent time or not now. Jesus NEVER said that and He tells us to take up our cross and follow Him. Also Do likewise what He has done.

.
You can do it.
Hope that helps
Godbless
littleone.

Hi,
That is a “wow”. I am stunned! That was wonderfully kind. I hope you will turn
your attention to our priests who are out fishing for Jesus.

 

[Erethorn]

so now you make it even more obvious by attacking me with personal insults…

Please point to the exact place where I have insulted you.

I do not call you a woman to personally insult you i honestly keep thinking you are one because your posts are worded like that of a female no offense----your motivations are not deep, and a person can be tested by the fruits they bear,

So, you are flat out calling me a liar.

Jesus says even calling someone a fool puts you in danger of Hell Fire…

And what does Jesus say about calling someone a liar ?

 

[Erethorn]

Hi Erethorn,
You mentioned that the just in the old covenant were rescued by Jesus and taken to heaven, including babies.
But the unbaptised babies after Jesus’ death, could not go to heaven like the babies,who were just, before Jesus.
And this didn’t seem to be logical.​

That is a good question.

The question seems to gravitate around the meaning of the word “just”.
Just means justification which is received at baptism today.
Baptism means to desire to be born again as Jesus said to Nichodemous.
The people who were just-tified in the old covenant desired to do good
and follow the goodness of God written in their heart. The church
describes this as baptism by desire. Because they desire to do God’s will in
their heart, they would also desire baptism had they known Jesus wanted it. They
then are baptised and receive justification from which springs the power of glory.

The child does not have the use of his intellect and will to make this desire.
Therefore all unbaptised babies are in original sin and unjustified.

In other words, not even the infants who died before Christ are in Heaven ?

Unless they were lucky enough to be baptised in blood, like the 40 infants killed by Herod ?

And what about baptism of desire ? I see two fundamental problems with that.

If an infant dies unbaptized, but the parents (being Christians) have desired him to be baptized, then he is baptized “by desire” and justified.

What about the infant who dies unbaptized in a small village in China ? There is no one who desires his baptism, so he dies unjustified and does not go to Heaven, because he had the bad luck of being born in China. That is not just.

You could argue that someone always desires the infant to be baptized (for example, the Holy Virgin Mary or the saints or even Jesus), and therefore all children who die without baptism of water are actually receiving the baptism of desire. But then, why baptize them with water, if they are all baptized by desire ? That is not logical.

 

[jenniferpet88]

Please point to the exact place where I have insulted you.

it is not what someone does but the love they put into it, likewise someone can hand you an ice cream cone but if they do it begrudgingly and with hate in their heart then they might as well be handing you poison

So, you are flat out calling me a liar.

i said i was mistaken…but since you are trying to twist my words, i am calling you a false witness which is pretty close to a liar yes.

And what does Jesus say about calling someone a liar ?

you tell me? We are supposed to point out people in error and liars included, Jesus himself called people liars…1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ SO IF YOU END UP DENYING JESUS BECAUSE of your own personal feelings then YOU ARE A LIAR.

JESUS STRAIGHT OUT CALLS THEM A LIAR

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Jesus’ Claims About Himself
48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word.

 

[Erethorn]

jenniferpet88,please take a step back from pretending to be Jesus and let’s look at your pointless and false accusations once more.

1. You kept calling me “her”.
2. I told you in no ambiguous terms that I am a man.
3. In response to that, you said “I still believe you are a woman”.

In other words, you called me a liar to my face. I would like you to apologize.

 

[jenniferpet88]

stop dodging the topic, if you read what i have already repeated twice you’ll see i owe no one an apology, bottom line, accept the Church and it’s teachings along with the Divinity of Jesus Christ and choose heaven, or Choose self and your own ego along with all of it’s ugly desire’s which includes writing your own moral doctrine and inventing your own God and choose the Hell that does exist

personal note- i do not cater to people’s egos

 

[Erethorn]

stop dodging the topic, if you read what i have already repeated twice you’ll see i owe no one an apology, bottom line, accept the Church and it’s teachings along with the Divinity of Jesus Christ and choose heaven, or Choose self and your own ego along with all of it’s ugly desire’s which includes writing your own moral doctrine and inventing your own God and choose the Hell that does exist

personal note- i do not cater to people’s egos

It seems to me that one who openly insults people by calling them liars and afterwards refuses to aknowledge their mistake or apologise is hardly qualified to talk about the “ugly desires” of another person’s ego.

By the way, the moral commandment that you keep dodging by not aknowledging your mistake is not mine, but that of your Church.

On another note, your “accept the Church or burn in hell” scare tactics really don’t work on me.

That being said, though you have been a tremendous help in my choice to distance myself from the Church and therefore from people like you, consider youself ignored from now on.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

In other words, not even the infants who died before Christ are in Heaven ?

Unless they were lucky enough to be baptised in blood, like the 40 infants killed by Herod ?

If that is true, then I would say that all babies artificially aborted are in heaven, right?

And what about baptism of desire ? I see two fundamental problems with that.

If an infant dies unbaptized, but the parents (being Christians) have desired him to be baptized, then he is baptized “by desire” and justified.

What about the infant who dies unbaptized in a small village in China ? There is no one who desires his baptism, so he dies unjustified and does not go to Heaven, because he had the bad luck of being born in China. That is not just.

It is quite sufficient, if the parents hadn’t heard the Gospel, just to desire what is best for their baby.

You could argue that someone always desires the infant to be baptized (for example, the Holy Virgin Mary or the saints or even Jesus), and therefore all children who die without baptism of water are actually receiving the baptism of desire. But then, why baptize them with water, if they are all baptized by desire ? That is not logical.

Basically, because God WANTS and LOVES to have children baptized.

“Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’” (Luke 18:15–16)

Who are we to prevent God from touching His precious ones through the most intimate and truly real Sacrament of Baptism?

God love you.

 

[Lui]

I still don’t get why you don’t talk to a good priest or spiritual leader about all these issues. Yesterday I got upset as well because there are people in the “Do Non-Catholics go to Heaven?”-thread who say that all Non-Catholics go to Hell.

That was the point that I realized that I don’t go to a forum for medical advice if I think that I have a serious illness. If I would ask"I have a lump on my arm", I am sure there will be people whose medical knowledge is based on reading Wikipedia would say"Dude, I’d get that checked. It sounds like cancer".
My point is that I realized that questions concerning deep theological concerns should be answered by people who actually STUDIED and practice theology rather than receiving advice from some random people off the internet.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

**I still don’t get why you don’t talk to a good priest or spiritual leader about all these issues. Yesterday I got upset as well because there are people in the “Do Non-Catholics go to Heaven?”-thread who say that all Non-Catholics go to Hell.

That was the point that I realized that I don’t go to a forum for medical advice if I think that I have a serious illness. If I would ask"I have a lump on my arm", I am sure there will be people whose medical knowledge is based on reading Wikipedia would say"Dude, I’d get that checked. It sounds like cancer".
My point is that I realized that questions concerning deep theological concerns should be answered by people who actually STUDIED and practice theology rather than receiving advice from some random people off the internet.**

Quite true. I bolded this (I hope you don’t mind, Lui) because I and others have suggested this already, and we know you NEED to do this.

So why, Erethorn?

God love you.

 

[Lui]

Quite true. I bolded this (I hope you don’t mind, Lui) because I and others have suggested this already, and we know you NEED to do this.
.

I just re-edited my post though because I noticed a few spelling errors that I just corrected

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

I just re-edited my post though because I noticed a few spelling errors that I just corrected

Fixed, Thanks for the heads up ^___^

God love you.

 

[jmcrae]

What does senses mean?Like what would the defnition of senses be please?

Seeing, touching, tasting, hearing, and smelling.

We have spiritual bodies in the afterlife, and we can see, touch, taste, hear, and smell there, even better than we can here, since our spiritual bodies will have no disabilities of any kind.

 

[RweThereYet]

I’ve been a catholic for about a year and a half now, having been an atheist before that.

Recently I started to have very serious doubts about the Church.

My problems fall in two main categories:

1. I have a hard time believing in the infailibility of the Church.

When I started looking into Christianity, and exploring different Churches, it was a requisite for me that the True Church should not claim a monopoly on salvation.

In other words, I would NEVER join a Church who said “Everyone who does not belong to our Church goes to hell”.

At the time, I thought the Catholic Church met those requirements, because I read the Vatican II documents clearly stating that salvation was possible for those outside the Catholic Church.

However, lately I have discovered a Vatican I document, also clearly stating that whoever is not in the Church will go to hell.

This is most disturbing, because it means, to me at least, that the dogma can change, and the Church is therefore not infailible.

I have read a lot of stuff and arguments regarding this, but to me it sounds as rationalization. I cannot believe that Vatican I meant to say anything else but what it said: if you are not a Catholic, you will go to hell, period.

.

Jesus is our savior. It only makes logical sense that if He establsihed a Church, He wants everyone to be a member of it. It makes sense that only HIS Church can save.

it is possible but NOT likely thatsomeone could be saved outside HIS Church

If someone is against His Church (some virulent antiCatholics… Jack Chick types) that person is bound for Hell - assuming he realizes that it is Christ’s Church. If he is ignorant of that, then that’s different.

I myself never felt i ws ready for Heaven until i had retunred to the Catholic faith and been to a few Masses, etc. The reason is that the Church is supernatural (the Mass/the Real Presence) and we humans are NOT

We have to become like Jesus, not the other way around.

Some people create Jesus in their own image.

 

[littleone]

Brother I am not a saint however, I think maybe you should think differently about your writing the way you are. Here is one reason, try doing what Jesus wants us to do such as i have writen simple things I have done and others in the church also have done. You might have noticed some things from my past I have mentioned.

Yesterday I was so pleased for a response i had it went like this.
I had to go to a FGC or Family group conference in another town about a boy I have for years been helping.
1 The boy in the situation is now making amends to change his life, while in that town, I met another boy i have been helping for about 11 years he now is studing to be a counsellor, and the boy i mentioned in another post to you who has no father who I have been helping for 20years now is an IT practitioner, he invited my wife and I to his house and his girlfriend asked if there is a chance could I marry them if I become a Jusitce of the Peace.
Believe me this is not of me but I believe that if you look to Jesus and not to moving around to another church then this is some of the basic works Jesus wants of we who are christians.
Brother it is not of some church relationship that you or I form a relationship with God Jesus the Holy Spirit but through our giving to those in need and Please remember that you as others might think that you may feel uncomfortable in this church (which is the people)BUT it was NOT YOU who chose God but HE who chose you to follow Him. God wants stibility of His people.
God bless you my friend. I hope you gain that peace that only God can give to you.
littleone.

 

[music2]

Seeing, touching, tasting, hearing, and smelling.

We have spiritual bodies in the afterlife, and we can see, touch, taste, hear, and smell there, even better than we can here, since our spiritual bodies will have no disabilities of any kind.

You mean like God makes a spiritual body that has all the human “earthly” senses but in the “spiritual realm” God’s made the senses function without having a nervous system etc?
Can you tell me please is this this official infallible C.Church teaching(with a link please), or alternatively is it opinion/speculation of how things could be?

Thanks

 

[WesleyF]

Have you ever hold an infant in your arms ? Could you look into his eyes and tell yourself “Yes, I believe this is a child of wrath, and unless he’s baptized, he’s destined for hell and I’m ok with that. He’s never hurt anyone, but still there’s something mysterious at work here that makes this infant deserve hell” ?!

Yes, I have held an infant in my arms. And yes, even though it is difficult, I can look into its eyes and say that it is a child of wrath unless he is baptized, not because I feel so, but because I have come to value the truth of the word of God over my feelings.

 

[Erethorn]

Yes, I have held an infant in my arms. And yes, even though it is difficult, I can look into its eyes and say that it is a child of wrath unless he is baptized, not because I feel so, but because I have come to value the truth of the word of God over my feelings.

Perhaps you mean, the word of the Church.

The word of God is this: “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these".

 

[WesleyF]

Perhaps you mean, the word of the Church.

The word of God is this: “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these".

In the above case the word of God was spoken through the mouth of the Lord himself, whereas in other cases, the word of God is spoken through the mouth of the church. “He who hears you hears me” said Jesus Christ and therefore, the words of Paul in Ephesians 2 are indeed the words of Christ and therefore the word of God.

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

You mean like God makes a spiritual body that has all the human “earthly” senses but in the “spiritual realm” God’s made the senses function without having a nervous system etc?
Can you tell me please is this this official infallible C.Church teaching(with a link please), or alternatively is it opinion/speculation of how things could be?

Thanks

The way to answer this queston in the quick way is no this is not Cathoilic teaching. The longer asnwer is no it is not Catholic teaching, Why? Because Jesus said he going to go and prepare a place for us. He was fully human born of a virgin, He died and He rose again in fullfillment of the scriptures. He was glorified and he has a physical body that is perfected when the disciples saw him they recondized him. We are not going to be angels( perfect spirits) but rather a two part being like Jesus spiritual and physical with glorified bodies. We will always be human but perfect as God planned. So in the long and short of it we will be physical and spiritual as we are now but perfected. Some will need purgation (ME!!!) and some won’t but purgation is a merciful grace to allow our physical bodies to enter Heaven. Scoob.