Help in dealing with non-catholic friends

[JustaServant]

I haven’t found that option to be possible.

When I told my dearest friend from my former church that I had joined the Church, her immediate reaction was “How can you be Catholic, don’t they pray to Mary?”

INDEPENDENT FUNDAMENTAL BAPTISTS believe that it is their duty to evangelize EVERYONE they meet! They also believe that Catholics CAN’T be and are NOT saved because we believe we must take accountability for our own actions regarding our own salvation. In other words, Catholics believe that Christ paid the penalty for our sin, but we still have to make reparation when we sin. We have to confess and atone for the sins we commit against Him.

Fundamentals believe ONCE SAVED/ALWAYS SAVED!

They literally believe that once you “accept” Christ as your PERSONAL SAVIOR, you become a SAVED person and NOTHING you do can change that!

You can rape, murder, steal, lie, cheat, etc. and, because you said “the sinners prayer” at some point in your life, you ARE STILL SAVED and on your way to Heaven.

Their thinking is so flawed, there is NO WAY that my becoming Catholic won’t come up.

One of the lies that IFBs spread is the accusation that Catholics believe they can attain our own salvation without Christ, through works. I have never met a Catholic in their right mind who believes they are ‘working their way to Heaven.’
The Catholic Church teaches that one must have Faith to be saved. Without that, no one is saved. Grace alone (not faith alone) lets us recognize Christ and we are made capable through grace to respond to Him, that is, meet Him through faith, and then to cooperate with Him: bring forth fruit and glorify Him.
Faith without works is dead, being alone.Works without faith are of no value. Faith without works is dead. Faith, joined with works, demonstrates that Grace is present. Faith precedes works, but faith without works is not the kind that saves. So, faith saves, but faith without works is not faith at all. It’s a neglected gift that gets us nowhere.

 

[JustaServant]

Fundamentals believe ONCE SAVED/ALWAYS SAVED!

Here is another old blog post that may help you:

**The Dark Side of ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ **

“For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” Gen. 3:5 (KJV).

Malcolm Smith (a charismatic Episcopal priest) used to call the words of this verse, “ye shall be as gods”, ‘The Lie’. The idea being that wanting to be ‘like God’ is the foundation of Original Sin. And what could be more ‘being like a god’, than having the knowledge of who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell.
The ‘doctrine’ of ‘once saved, always saved’ (OSAS), otherwise known as ‘eternal security’ was a teaching I found hard to abandon when I crossed the Tiber. It is an enticing philosophy that attracts people into a web that is hard to get out of. Behind the doctrine, of course is the teaching that you and I can ‘know for sure’ that our destiny is Heaven.
Or as fundamentalist preachers love to put it: ‘you’re as sure for Heaven as Jesus Himself!’ Catholics shrink from such statements as they smack of the sin of presumption.
But this doctrine has a dark side. If I can ‘be sure’ who is going to Heaven (those who repeated a sinners prayer), than I can also be sure who is going to Hell (those who have not).
This ‘knowledge’ of who is destined for Hell not only plays into the ‘Lie’ (using Malcolm’s language), it also plays into a destructive psychological pattern.
A former Pentecostal pastor once recounted a strange service he attended once. The preacher was giving a sermon on Hell and began to name those he was ‘sure’ are either in Hell, or headed there. “They’re going to Hell! They’re going to Hell! They’re going to Hell!” the crowd began to chant over and over in a bizarre fashion.
There is a strange and sick satisfaction people have in ‘knowing’ their enemies are ‘burning in Hell’. It gives them a feeling of ‘justice’.
When some of the writings of Mother Teresa was made public, it revealed she had gone through (as St. John of the Cross did) a ‘dark night of the soul’.
Fundamentalists had a gleeful feeding frenzy. I remember one fundamentalist almost giddy with excitement: “See! This proves it! Mother Teresa is in Hell!!”. It is extremely important to fundamentalists that Mother Teresa be in Hell. If Mother Teresa is not burning in Hell, that would make their belief/doctrine false; hence she must be burning in Hell.
For extreme Calvinists, this gets into their theology that a portion of humankind is ‘predestined to Hell’. A recent survey found 60% of born-again Christians say people were going to hell because they didn’t have the “right beliefs.” Whose beliefs are right is dependent upon the person you are talking to. Catholics are told (many times with glee) that it is ‘certain’ they are going to Hell.
It reflects a lack of compassion, hope, and love. It feeds into a person’s unforgiveness and bitterness toward another. In dehumanizing them with the curse of “They’re going to Hell,” it relieves them of any responsibility.
The Pharisees of Jesus day had a saying (from ancient Jewish writings): “There is joy in Heaven when a sinner drops into Hell.” Jesus turned that around and said: “There is joy in heaven when a sinner repents.”
The Pharisees believed in a kind of ‘OSAS’. Obviously Jesus did not.
“ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
The Lie.

 

[angierabbit2012]

One of the lies that IFBs spread is the accusation that Catholics believe they can attain our own salvation without Christ, through works. I have never met a Catholic in their right mind who believes they are ‘working their way to Heaven.’
The Catholic Church teaches that one must have Faith to be saved. Without that, no one is saved. Grace alone (not faith alone) lets us recognize Christ and we are made capable through grace to respond to Him, that is, meet Him through faith, and then to cooperate with Him: bring forth fruit and glorify Him.
Faith without works is dead, being alone.Works without faith are of no value. Faith without works is dead. Faith, joined with works, demonstrates that Grace is present. Faith precedes works, but faith without works is not the kind that saves. So, faith saves, but faith without works is not faith at all. It’s a neglected gift that gets us nowhere.

:thumbsup:WELL SAID!!

 

[angierabbit2012]

Here is another old blog post that may help you:

**The Dark Side of ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ **

The Pharisees of Jesus day had a saying (from ancient Jewish writings): “There is joy in Heaven when a sinner drops into Hell.” Jesus turned that around and said: “There is joy in heaven when a sinner repents.”
The Pharisees believed in a kind of ‘OSAS’. Obviously Jesus did not.
“ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
The Lie.

Some POWERFUL reading there!! Even when I was part of the FUNDAMENTALIST crowd I NEVER believed on “OSAS”, I always felt it just didn’t make sense if GOD is TRULY just!!!

Thank you for sharing this with me!!

 

[hazcompat]

Words and Prayers of St. Isaac the Syrian

Let yourself be persecuted, but do not persecute others.
Be crucified, but do not crucify others.
Be slandered, but do not slander others.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep: such is the sign of purity.
Suffer with the sick.
Be afflicted with sinners.
Exult with those who repent.
Be the friend of all, but in your spirit remain alone.
Be a partaker of the sufferings of all, but keep your body distant from all.
Rebuke no one, revile no one, not even those who live very wickedly.
Spread your cloak over those who fall into sin, each and every one, and shield them.
And if you cannot take the fault on yourself and accept punishment in their place,
do not destroy their character.

christianmystics.com/traditional/early/stisaacthesyrian.html

peace

 

[angierabbit2012]

Words and Prayers of St. Isaac the Syrian

Let yourself be persecuted, but do not persecute others.
Be crucified, but do not crucify others.
Be slandered, but do not slander others.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep: such is the sign of purity.
Suffer with the sick.
Be afflicted with sinners.
Exult with those who repent.
Be the friend of all, but in your spirit remain alone.
Be a partaker of the sufferings of all, but keep your body distant from all.
Rebuke no one, revile no one, not even those who live very wickedly.
Spread your cloak over those who fall into sin, each and every one, and shield them.
And if you cannot take the fault on yourself and accept punishment in their place,
do not destroy their character.

christianmystics.com/traditional/early/stisaacthesyrian.html

peace

BEAUTIFUL!!! Truly words to live by!

 

[Calgar]

Yikes. These fundamentalist bapstists sound scary.

I think I actually ran into one many years ago while I was still an athiest, his arrogent intolerance just helped to reinforce all the negative steriotypes I had of Christians.

Thanks to God I am on the right path now.

 

[Cindyr9]

Not sure if I can give advice on the matter, however I would like to comment regarding my observations, having been in “Protestant” churches for 30 years sandwiched between growing up Catholic and recently coming back. I am sad to see how many misconceptions there are on both sides about what the other church believes. For example, the leader of my Catholic Bible study is very much on the defensive of what is perceived as Catholic-bashing by non-Catholics, perhaps rightly so. On the other hand, there were people in my former fundamentalist church who thought Catholics were of the devil and the Pope was the anti-Christ. How sad that both groups can’t meet each other on common ground, the doctrines upon which we agree, such as the Trinity, the virgin birth, the resurrection and ascension. I think those are important tenets of the Christian faith that are pretty universal. And Christ Himself prayed to the Father that we all may be one, and that there would be other sheep that are not of this fold. So as one of the other posts stated, I would say to do all things with charity. Study the doctrines of the Catholic Church and back them up with Holy Scripture, because that is what they will relate to, so that you may be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope that is within you. Last but not least I would pray for your non-Catholic friends to be brought into the fullness of the faith.

 

[Miriam1947]

A really great book that I have read a couple of times is:

The Biblical Basis for the Catholic Faith by John Salza.

There’s a misconception that the Catholic Church “made up” a lot of its teachings. That much of what Catholics believe has no foundation in Scripture.

How do you debunk that myth if you’re a devout Catholic but your knowledge of Scripture is spotty? How do you get to the truth if you’re a fervent non-Catholic but your understanding of Catholic Church teaching is shaky? (How do you do that if it’s downright inaccurate?)

The Biblical Basis for the Catholic Faith is written for both audiences. In a non-confrontational manner, author John Salza quotes only from the Bible to explain the basic doctrine of the Catholic Church. Chapter after chapter focuses on doctrinal “hot spots” including sola Scriptura, Tradition, papal infallibility, the seven sacraments, Mary and the saints, justification, salvation, and purgatory.

Here is a book that not only proves that the Catholic Faith is Biblical, but also that Catholicism is Bible Christianity par excellence. Here is a book that makes a thoughtful and welcome gift for a family member or friend who has questions about the Catholic Church.

Here is a link to his website:

scripturecatholic.com/

We sell his books in my store.

 

[fbl9]

YES!!! INDEPENDENT FUNDAMENTAL BAPTIST/KJV BIBLE ONLY…I’ve come a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way huh?!! And yes, I realize that they think I’ve gone to the devil!! One fly in the ointment though…IFB’s believe in ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED! I was baptized in the baptist church and they had no problem accepting my salvation when I belonged to their church. But when I left and became Catholic, suddenly my soul is in jeopardy!! I asked my friend, “how does that work?” How can I be “once saved always saved” as long as I’m baptist, but now that I’m Catholic, suddenly my soul is at risk!! She had no answer.

If your friends ever start to dice the Catholic church remember what you have wrote here, and bring it up.

 

[HelenRose]

Yikes. These fundamentalist bapstists sound scary.

I think I actually ran into one many years ago while I was still an athiest, his arrogent intolerance just helped to reinforce all the negative steriotypes I had of Christians.

Thanks to God I am on the right path now.

A dear friend of mine is a very fundamental Baptist, she is one of the kindest, most hard working and wonderful person I know. It is wrong to base one’s prejudices when meeting just one person. Arrogant intolerance is a sin that crosses all human endeavors and is one that is the most difficult to see in one’s self.

I will defend our beautiful Catholic Faith. I know that it is the one true faith. I pray that I will never bash anyone else’s faith even if individuals of that faith misunderstand Catholic teaching. I will defend the Church the best I can with love and understanding not with sacrasm, anger or rudeness.

 

[rinnie]

Hello there everyone! I am a new convert and I came into the Church after leaving an INDEPENDENT FUNDAMENTAL BAPTIST CHURCH. I was a part of that church for many years and developed some friendships there that I would like to maintain. I have found this to be very difficult. I tried to attend a Bible study there and even attended a few services, but after becoming Catholic and seeing the beauty of the Mass, I NOW see the many flaws in the teachings and beliefs AND “worship” in my former church. However, I still want to maintain my relationships with some of my friends from the baptist church…I just don’t know how. Attending services and Bible studies there only made me feel uncomfortable. How can I maintain relationships with non- catholic friends outside of the church building? Thanks in advance for your help and GOD bless!

Very few of my friends are Catholic. But the best thing to do is say, lets not talk Religion.

If they get into a heated argument what I found works is instead of saying thats not true, or etc. I have learned to say thats not what my Church teaches and leave it at that.

If they are true Christians they will love you for who you ARE not the Faith you follow.

 

[rinnie]

Not sure if I can give advice on the matter, however I would like to comment regarding my observations, having been in “Protestant” churches for 30 years sandwiched between growing up Catholic and recently coming back. I am sad to see how many misconceptions there are on both sides about what the other church believes. For example, the leader of my Catholic Bible study is very much on the defensive of what is perceived as Catholic-bashing by non-Catholics, perhaps rightly so. On the other hand, there were people in my former fundamentalist church who thought Catholics were of the devil and the Pope was the anti-Christ. How sad that both groups can’t meet each other on common ground, the doctrines upon which we agree, such as the Trinity, the virgin birth, the resurrection and ascension. I think those are important tenets of the Christian faith that are pretty universal. And Christ Himself prayed to the Father that we all may be one, and that there would be other sheep that are not of this fold. So as one of the other posts stated, I would say to do all things with charity. Study the doctrines of the Catholic Church and back them up with Holy Scripture, because that is what they will relate to, so that you may be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope that is within you. Last but not least I would pray for your non-Catholic friends to be brought into the fullness of the faith.

Here is what I can’t understand. And I agree many acuse the Pope of being the Devil. But I have learned People who say that do not know the word of God at all.

The word of God says the gates of hell will not prevail. NOW either they believe the word of God and the devil will never take over the Catholic Church. Or they are right and the Pope is the devil and God lied to us.

Sometimes common sense does not exist for people who are filled with hate.

 

[HelenRose]

Very few of my friends are Catholic. But the best thing to do is say, lets not talk Religion.

If they get into a heated argument what I found works is instead of saying thats not true, or etc. I have learned to say thats not what my Church teaches and leave it at that.

If they are true Christians they will love you for who you ARE not the Faith you follow.

Right on. I love to discuss my faith but it is important to use discreation when engaging in a religious discussion.

 

[rinnie]

Right on. I love to discuss my faith but it is important to use discreation when engaging in a religious discussion.

I agree, and your heart tells you when someone is truly interested in your faith, or are really trying to attack your faith.

What I have learned to do with the People who attack, they don’t want to hear the truth anyway so here is what I will do.

Example. Where in the bible does it say a Priest can’t get married. I say YOU tell me. And they will say YOUR PRIEST is forbidden to marry. I say No he is not. My Priest was chosen by God and had a calling from the Holy Spirit to remain single so he chose the ROMAN RITE. He by his own free will made the choice to accept that Cross to carry through his life from God and do so. SO if he has no problem with it why should you?

If he wanted to marry he would not have BEEN chosen nor HAVE chosen the Roman Rite.

 

[HelenRose]

I agree, and your heart tells you when someone is truly interested in your faith, or are really trying to attack your faith.

What I have learned to do with the People who attack, they don’t want to hear the truth anyway so here is what I will do.

Example. Where in the bible does it say a Priest can’t get married. I say YOU tell me. And they will say YOUR PRIEST is forbidden to marry. I say No he is not. My Priest was chosen by God and had a calling from the Holy Spirit to remain single so he chose the ROMAN RITE. He by his own free will made the choice to accept that Cross to carry through his life from God and do so. SO if he has no problem with it why should you?

If he wanted to marry he would not have BEEN chosen nor HAVE chosen the Roman Rite.

That is a good response. I was going to add more to it but really this covers it all.

 

[anodos]

Oh my.
These are KJV-only IFBs?
You’re Satan.

That isn’t really fair. But it made me laugh…

I do have a friend who is concerned that I have been deceived by Satan in all of the Catholic Church’s glitter and false outward beauty, but she doesn’t see me as a Satan at all. She sees me as one of Jesus’s dear children who is lost and lonely.

I was very involved in church activities as a child and then a teen growing up Fundamentalist (milder version), but I “burned out” somewhat as an adult, so that, when I became attracted to Catholicism, I was not in the thick of everything church-y. There were very few difficulties to the process; I don’t have many friends and I wasn’t an on-paper member of a church. I do remember the day when I realized I had to completely release my already-enfeebled grasp on my parents’ church; I think you will know when the “last straw” is too (or you already have).

I recommend no longer attending Fundamentalist Bible studies. I’m stuck in one (upcoming) that I never wanted to be in, but the leader is a friend who has a great deal of love and knowledge of God and I didn’t want to disappoint her. (Its a non-denominational study, so it won’t attack Catholicism directly.)

 

[fbl9]

I recommend no longer attending Fundamentalist Bible studies. I’m stuck in one (upcoming) that I never wanted to be in, but the leader is a friend who has a great deal of love and knowledge of God and I didn’t want to disappoint her. (Its a non-denominational study, so it won’t attack Catholicism directly.)

umm i wouldn’t get my hopes up that high. Baptism and the authority of the Church will be the first things attacked.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Hello there everyone! I am a new convert and I came into the Church after leaving an INDEPENDENT FUNDAMENTAL BAPTIST CHURCH. I was a part of that church for many years and developed some friendships there that I would like to maintain. I have found this to be very difficult. I tried to attend a Bible study there and even attended a few services, but after becoming Catholic and seeing the beauty of the Mass, I NOW see the many flaws in the teachings and beliefs AND “worship” in my former church. However, I still want to maintain my relationships with some of my friends from the baptist church…I just don’t know how. Attending services and Bible studies there only made me feel uncomfortable. How can I maintain relationships with non- catholic friends outside of the church building? Thanks in advance for your help and GOD bless!

Well, if you don’t do anything with these friends outside of your former fundamentalist community, then I don’t know how you would maintain those friendships. Otherwise, just do what ever you do outside of church more often with your friends. I recommend not continuing the bible “studies” and to stop attending the services. And I’m glad you’ve crossed the Tiber and are home in Rome.

 

[anodos]

umm i wouldn’t get my hopes up that high. Baptism and the authority of the Church will be the first things attacked.

Nah, its Beth Moore. I don’t agree with everything she teaches, but she’s extremely gentle, humble and respectful, and there’s not a lot of homework with this one, which means there won’t be time for her to take on Baptism or Authority even if she was going to. The only place I look for it is possibly from a few other ladies in the group, but that’s okay; it isn’t a “mean girls” group, everyone (even me!) is a grownup who can respect one another.