Help in talking to a "Me and Jesus" Christian

[NewCatholic1207]

I am talking with a relative about the differences between Catholic and generally Protestant theology. She is an evangelical who is of the “me and Jesus” bent. I was initially trying to ground my arguments in AUTHORITY, but she lives in a Mormon dominated area and as you will see by her comments, has an aversion to the AUTHORITY argument as it is used by the Mormons.

I would like suggestions regarding how to impress upon a “me and Jesus” Christian, the importance of the Church, the Eucharist, etc. Thanks in advance for your help.
Anyway here is her latest response to me:

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1.* When I say I am “in the word” I mean that I am regularly reading the Bible and looking for how I need to apply it to my life.* Part of that for me personally means that I am involved in a Bible study with other women, participate in intercessory prayer alone with God and with other women, worship God at home and also*on Sundays with other believers and share the love of God with anyone who is willing to listen.

2.A.* Personal relationship with Jesus means I believe He died for my sins so that I can have direct communication with the Father. In other words when I sin I go directly to God and confess and He is faithful to forgive me.* It means having the Holy Spirit living in me, so that when I have a need He will remind me of scripture that applies to my situation, He brings peace to my heart when I face troubles, I get to enjoy God as my Father being confident that He knows every move I make and cares.* The hairs on my head are numbered.* I can go on if you want more, but I think you get the idea.

B.* I believe Communion is importantbecause Jesus said we were to do it in remembrance of him. I have never personally saw whether it is the actual body and blood of Christ as being important.* It was His actual body and blood sacrificed on the cross.* What I accept is that Christ says we are to do it in remembrance (as a way to keep before our minds) the price Christ paid for us.* So when I take communion I intend to come before the Lord focused on what He has done, asking the Holy Spirit to search my heart and show me my unconfessed sin so I can confess and be forgiven as Christ provided.* I take communion with a heart of gratitude believing in and appreciating this wonderful gift.* God is able to do with or make the elements what ever He chooses.* I see my part as humble obedience in coming, remembering and accepting.*

3.* I have read about the cannon of scripture, but admittedly it has been a number of years since I studied about it.* I am satisfied that the 66 books we have are complete enough to present an accurate picture of who God is and how we are to be in relationship with Him.* I would not be opposed to reading the other 7 books and have considered it before, but I have just never gotten around to.* I expect it would be interesting, but not vital to my salvation.
*
I’m going to admit to a knee jerk reaction to AUTHORITY, because of being in a Mormon area for so many years and hearing their constant claim of AUTHORITY.* I believe that when Jesus died on the cross and the temple veil that separated man from God was rent, He gave us access to Himself.* I do not see having many denominations as being a negative.* God will not fit in a box.* I expect to be very amazed when I see Him face to face.* He is big enough to reveal himself and defend himself.* There are a few basic things that are required (believing Jesus is the Son of God as defined by the Bibleand that His sacrifice on the cross was necessary to pay the price of my sin) and confessing my sin and accepting His sacrifice on my behalf.**The bible says they will know we are Christians by our love and thatwe are to love God with all our heart, soul,mind and strength and our neighbors as ourselves.I think it is more pleasing to God to see people doing their best to love and serve him and to love and serve each other even when they disagree on some of the details.
*
Ok that’s it for now. To be honest I don’t expect that either of us are going to have a great mind change about what we believe, but if in the end we are both satisfied that we love the Lord, won’t that we wonderful to know! If you are interested at another time*I will tell you some details of how I got to where I am in faith.

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Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
God Bless and Merry Christmas!

 

[DebChris]

It is true that Jesus Christ died for our sins, that we are called to a personal relationship with our savior, and can directly communicate with the Father. Our acceptance of the indwelling Spirit allows for our transformation into the image and likeness of God. Using the words of John the Baptist, “I must decrease that He might increase.” The one thing we want to avoid is cheapening the grace that we have received. Christ died, not that we might continue in our sin, but that we might be transformed into His image.
“I am the vine and you are the branches. Apart from me, you can do nothing.”
There is no such thing as a lone ranger Christian. We live in community and have fellowship with one another. We are called to service (Last Supper washing of the Apostles’ feet). We are called to pick up our cross daily and follow after Him. “The one who gives up mother, father, brother, or sister for my sake discovers who he is.”
When Jesus says that unless you eat of the Son of Man in John 6, He did not change his teaching when the multitude rejected Him, when they walked away. He instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper showing us how this partaking of the Flesh would happen. It was not an easy teaching at the time and it remains a stumbling block for many today.
I was saved 2,000 years ago when Christ died on the cross for my sins. I continue to be saved each and every time the Mass is celebrated anywhere in the world until the end of time.

For the moment, do not push too hard, but allow your friend to talk. Use gentle responses as you become more familiar with your own faith. Purchase the small booklet Where is that in the Bible, and ask the Lord to guide your words in any discussion with your friend. If the discussion starts to get heated, change the subjects. “I had the greatest ribs and fries at that new restaurant downtown.” As Christians, strife is a luxury we cannot afford.

Invite him/her to Mass. The word us, not me is contained in the name of Jesus. While our personal relationship may begin at the individual level, it must grow beyond that in our words and actions. We must be willing to step outside our own complacency until the people with whom we make contact see the love of Christ reflected in us. We love because Christ first loved us…

The Word of God did not drop out of the sky in written form. He came to us incarnate. Read the beginning of the Gospel of John. “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God…”

 

[MonFrere]

• God will not fit in a box.*

Then why does man have so many boxes with each one saying their box is the one that God most perfectly fits into?

I’m too close to bedtime but I think this gal has left some good openings for you to pursue.

My first thought was the Lord’s Prayer. Jesus tells us to pray in this manner. OUR Father … Give US this day Forgive US … As WE forgive those … against US. Lead US … and Deliver US. This prayer is purposely COMMUNAL. Why? Because the Trinity is communal and our relationship with the Blessed Trinity is a communal relationship with the Three Divine Persons. If God resides in us we most reflect what we have become through baptism by the call to share in that communal life with and of God.

MonFrere

 

[NotWorthy]

If you read Acts, you will see that the early Church was ONE COMMUNITY. All the prayers were communal throughout Acts.

Also, read St. Paul’s writings when he says, “Can the eye say to the hand, I don’t need you” (Paraphrasing). This teaching shows that we need one another, just as the body parts need each other.

 

[zach_dunn]

I do not see having many denominations as being a negative.

This concept I find utterly foreign to the Bible. “Having many denominations” is completely opposed to Jesus’ will:

John 17:11
“11 And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.”

1 Corinthians 1:13
“13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

Ephesians 4:5
“5 [O]ne Lord, one faith, one baptism.”

While your relative may not think it is negative, I’m sure Jesus’ heart aches all the more when someone deciders to start their own denomination.

 

[NotWorthy]

While your relative may not think it is negative, I’m sure Jesus’ heart aches all the more when someone deciders to start their own denomination.

Amen, Zach! My thoughts go to Gamaliel in Acts 5 when I think of all the religions of this world started by men.

***For if this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God."

***I could give you 1000’s of examples of this.

 

[phoage]

Taking your friend’s points one at a time.

1. I see nothing wrong with this. Solo and communal bible study and prayer are well within Catholic doctrine.

2 A. Having a personal relationship to Jesus is great but the Father delegated the power to forgive sins to his Son (Mt9:6) who passed it on to the Apostles (Jn 20:23). The Apostles passed it on to their successors, the bishops, who have, in the Catholic church, delegated it to the priests they ordain with the Laying on of Hands. There is nothing I see wrong with the remainder of paragraph 2 A.

2 B. The Eucharist is the Body and Blood and knowing that is important (Jn 6). Jesus specified this, the multitude (except the Apostles) thought he was crazy or blaspheming and left. He did not change the teaching but asked the Apostles if they were going to leave also. Peter answered for the 12 ((Jn 6: 68-69) “…Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life;…”.

Also, at the last supper he said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”…“Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant,…” (Mt 26: 26-28). Note He says IS, not is like, or represents, or some other metaphor.
The rest of 2 B I see nothing wrong with.

1. The entire canon of scripture is important and vital to salvation or it would not be there. I will admit, that when I am arguing the Bible and scripture, I use the King James with my Protestant friends because I can generally present arguments that will support my points from that translation which most Protestants accept. Once I have established a position on a scriptural higher ground, then I can bring in the canon of scripture.

As for the Authority issue; my wife being LDS, I understand the position. Authority comes from the Father, through Jesus, His Son. Jesus granted it to Peter (Mt 16: 18-19) and the others of the 12 (Mt 27: 18-20).

Americans do not take authority very well. As a group we generally hold it guilty until proven innocent. The Church however has a tradition of following Tradition, which is ,“the way we’ve always done things”. This is modified as necessary by changing conditions but always in the light of the Law of the Lord. Papal infallability was not declared until the late 19th century as it was generally understood prior to that. Since then, there have been 10 popes and one infallible statement (The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin). The pope has enormous theoretical authority but it is used much more sparingly than any other person with similar authority.

Now there are many teachings by the Pope and the College of Bishops, and they should be given serious consideration by all Catholics. Most of these men are in fact servants of the Lord and are guided by the Holy Spirit but except when speaking in cathedra, about faith or morals, they are men and are no less fallible than the rest of us,