Help me decide!

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RockyH

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I am currently Agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I am still officially catholic, but am having doubts about my belief. I have looked alot into finding what I believe to be the truth, but am currently undecided. I don’t understand why I should believe a book thousands of years old when scientists, with a lot more scientific understanding, and evidence to support the scientific way… Help me decide!
 
Rocky,
IMHO, if you are looking to a Catholic forum for people to give you hope, then somewhere in your heart you still believe, but have lost your way. It is my understanding that an agnostic is someone who is open to the thought of God, but is waiting for some clear sign. I would think these are the people who are ignoring the obvious. Please look around you at God’s every day miracles. You shouldn’t have to look too hard, no matter what trials and tribulations you are facing in your life. God is just as present in the simple things as he is in the biggies.
Are you still attending Mass? If not (and even if you are), please hurry to the nearest Catholic Church and spend some time in prayer.
In the meantime, I will pray for you.
 
Welcome to CAF! 👋

Back in my early undergrad days, when I was going through my phase of asking the same types of questions, what really made a difference to me was discovering that there are actually intelligent Catholics. (Imagine that! :eek:). There are scientists and professors in every field who also have a firm belief in the Catholic faith.

Apologetics is helpful toward removing obstacles to the faith, but remember the Catholic faith is not simply about offering a cohesive worldview (though it does do that) it’s about encountering a person - Jesus Christ.

There’s more I could say, but I have to run. I will keep you in my prayers.
 
Rocky H and Thorton–

I am hoping you will both have the courage and faith to travel the road that will lead you to unshakable belief in God. I will pray for that as well. Any journey begins with small steps, and who of us has not questioned God’s existence?

You know, we live in a secular material society that tries to analyze God on the level of people and ideas that you can probe under a magnifying glass. . But God is beyond that. He is infinite and we have finite minds. If our finite minds fully understood God, would He still be infinite? You use a different criteria for discovering Him because He is outside of Time and Space.

Can an ant understand Quantum Physics? Does that mean quantum physics doesnt exist? Can you touch Justice and Love? Does that mean justice and love do not exist?

Google to find the proofs for God’s existence that were put forth by Thomas Aquinas. They are very logical and powerful proofs, but I must say that in the end it is heart knowledge rather than head knowledge which keeps one toward God.

I can recommend a very good book for you that I read in college when I was struggling with questions about the whys and wherefores of spiritual things. It is Frank Sheeds’ classic THEOLOGY AND SANITY. Pick up a copy; you wont be sorry.
 
Just a few quick comments.

Firstly, do not compare science with religion…they are two different animals. They do share one commonality however. If you look hard enough, you will see that both point to God.

Thomas Aquinas was quick to point out that if science and philosophy are true, they will support the belief in God for God is the source of all truth. The Bible itself even states that if we do not praise God, even the rocks themselves will cry out. When David wrote this, I do not believe that he literally meant the rocks would speak, but as a poet/psalmist, he was simply indicating that the beauty, harmony, and majesty of nature itself points to a Creator.

Nature is very well ordered. It sometimes appears as random, but science supports it is an ordered randomness. Order can only come from order and not from disorder. Even motion can only come from an initial force - even if it is a string of subsequent forces, it must eventually come to the source that initiated it. Likewise “life” can only come from life and not from death. What is the source of order, motion, and life? Life is not an accident. Life (as we know it) was ordered and set in motion by a force greater than itself.

Every branch of science (biology, physics, etc) will point to something bigger than itself and until it can otherwise prove with certainty that there is no God, all they can ultimately rely on is “theories” and not facts.

One last note - just because the Bible is thousands of years old, that fact does not discount it’s truth or relevancy. Rather, it supports it’s timelessness. I would highly recommend reviewing your Catholic doctrine and see why the Catholic Church teaches what it does. You will be delightfully surprised at how it actually embraces the sciences and how science supports it’s increasing relevancy in an age of disbelief and doubt, and death.

God Bless you on your journey to Truth,
CSJ
 
RockyH said:
I am currently Agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I am still officially catholic, but am having doubts about my belief. I have looked alot into finding what I believe to be the truth, but am currently undecided. I don’t understand why I should believe a book thousands of years old when scientists, with a lot more scientific understanding, and evidence to support the scientific way… Help me decide!
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The first thing that it is very important to understand. Supporting science and being Catholic do not conflict.

Do you realize who came up with the big bang theory? It was a Catholic priest who was a scientist.

The Catholic church teaches that you can believe in the different theories about how the earth and humans started, but you HAVE to believe that it was God’s hand that did it.
 
Rocky, I think many catholics don’t know a great deal about their faith, and would benefit by some good reading. The book 'Theology and Sanity" by Frank Sheed is probably out of print, but still one of the best books if you want to know what Catholicism is all about.
It begins speculating who or what created all this universe we live in, where did everything come from, and where is it headed, and so forth. This sort of question is just as important to an atheist as to a believer, but seldom asked. Most atheists are just saying, the whole faith thing just sounds like bunk, rather than coming up with a better understanding of what creation is all about.

Check out a catholic bookstore, dig a little deeper into what the church teaches and why.
 
I had a similar issue. When I got to college, I had many people who echoed my agnostic leanings and I decided that there must really be no true religion. I made it up in my mind that there was no way that a book could completely guide me to salvation.

Looking back, I was mostly motivated by the actions and beliefs of religious people in my life. I live in an area filled with many different denominations but mostly dominated by pentecostals and southern baptists. Without a foundation in a church I began to distrust and despise the attitudes of these people. I assumed that everyone was as strict in their adherence to intelligent design and a complete distrust of science. A good friend of mine once told me that dinosaurs were tricks from the devil. It goes on and on. Thank goodness the Catholic church doesn’t force you to read the bible as the end all book that completely trumps all scientific discovery. The bible isn’t a text book and our church understands that.

I recommend trying to pray. Say a nightly rosary even if you don’t believe in it for a week. If you can’t imagine praying for anything, do it for a loved one just in case purgatory exists and you might help them get into heaven. Try praying out of love for someone and try to read some of the history of the saints. If so many people can lay down their lives for their faith, isn’t it worth it to research it before you close your heart to it?

Don’t be turned away from religion because of people around you either (whether they are the stuck up religious ones that I’ve dealt with or the non believers that want another person to not believe with them.)
 
RockyH said:
I am currently Agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I am still officially catholic, but am having doubts about my belief. I have looked alot into finding what I believe to be the truth, but am currently undecided. I don’t understand why I should believe a book thousands of years old when scientists, with a lot more scientific understanding, and evidence to support the scientific way… Help me decide!
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Whatever is and sounds logical, then go that way. If you’re questioning something for a long period of time with the feeling of doubt, chances are, that’s no true or logical.

And I’m a logical person and reading a book a couple to few thousands years old is like reading a fairy tale. No offense or anything.
 
Rocky,

Don’t forget that there are limitations to what science is capable of answering, and anyone who claims that it’s proven that there is no God (or even that it’s capable of proving that) has abandoned science.
 
RockyH said:
I am currently Agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I am still officially catholic, but am having doubts about my belief. I have looked alot into finding what I believe to be the truth, but am currently undecided. I don’t understand why I should believe a book thousands of years old when scientists, with a lot more scientific understanding, and evidence to support the scientific way… Help me decide!
Click to expand...
It’s not a problem to have doubts. We all have doubts sometimes. I think we have to look at the big picture and decide to exercise the faith we have. By exercising it, God will give us the grace to take the next step. Look at the fruits of the Christian way of life versus the atheist’s way of life. Even in this life, if you practice the Faith, you will lead a happier, more peacful life. As a contrast, look at the fruits of the nonbelievers like the movie stars who self destruct. It comes down to obedience. Pascahl’s Wager says something like: If you don’t believe there is a God and practice the faith and, let’s say you’re right, you win the arguement but you go into oblivion (into nothingness forever) but if you’re wrong, you lose everything - eternal life!
 
RockyH said:
I am currently Agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I am still officially catholic, but am having doubts about my belief. I have looked alot into finding what I believe to be the truth, but am currently undecided. I don’t understand why I should believe a book thousands of years old when scientists, with a lot more scientific understanding, and evidence to support the scientific way… Help me decide!
Click to expand...
I would say one thing you’d be throwing away is a moral code - something atheism cannot provide - and that science cannot measure. Science cannot measure and decide everything (e.g. politics, morality, God, philosophy, etc)!

Pope Leo XIII spoke of this very issue:
If therefore no hope of a happy eternity remains when the body dies, what reason is there for men to undertake toil and suffering here in subjecting the appetites to right reason? The highest good of man will then lie in enjoying life’s pleasures and life’s luxuries. And since there is no one who is drawn to virtue by the impulse of his own nature, every man will naturally lay hands on all he can that he may live happily on the spoils of others. (Leo XIII, Exeunte, 8)
This philosophy is precisely what drives so many people into utter greed, family abandonment, etc, etc, because if this life is all we have, then there is no reason not to maximize pleasure at all costs.
 
RockyH said:
I am currently Agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I am still officially catholic, but am having doubts about my belief. I have looked alot into finding what I believe to be the truth, but am currently undecided. I don’t understand why I should believe a book thousands of years old when scientists, with a lot more scientific understanding, and evidence to support the scientific way… Help me decide!
Click to expand...
Rocky, you might find helpful this commentary (and the text of Pope Benedict that is the subject of the article):

catholicexchange.com/2010/03/31/128812/

Foremost, though, ask HIM.
 
All I can say is what a Lord we have looking over us.
At the macroscopic level to the furthest reaches of the universe we have not and probably never will discover the outer limits of the visible universe and all that it holds.
At the microscopic level down to the tiniest quantum particle we have not even nor probably will we ever glean the point at which nothing else is discoverable.
Whom but Our Lord would have understood and be able to test and satisfy our insatiable thirst and search for knowledge and intelligence.
This is just a tiny fraction of a reason for our rational belief in our Creator.
Gerry
 
RockyH said:
I am currently Agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I am still officially catholic, but am having doubts about my belief. I have looked alot into finding what I believe to be the truth, but am currently undecided. I don’t understand why I should believe a book thousands of years old when scientists, with a lot more scientific understanding, and evidence to support the scientific way… Help me decide!
Click to expand...
Well if you really care Rocky, it’s going to take work. Developing knowledge doesn’t happen over night. If you are willing to work and come to know God you must first be dedicated and disciplined. Faith and reason will go a long way my friend.

Look up
-Peter Kreeft
-Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis

and Pray! Pray your heart away and look for the message inscribed in our hearts. It’s a life long process. We must take up our cross daily! DAILY!
 
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