Help me fight this

[holdencaulfield]

First of all, you need to look at your spiritual needs. Does Orthodoxy offer what you are needing spiritually. Many here are going to look at more of the politics vs spirituality. Because the Orthodox church recognizes the See of Rome as a first among equals, along with the four other ancient Patriarchates, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Constantinople, all equals in authority, but preserving the faith as a whole vs the See of Rome as complete authority or the Rock of the church in matters of faith. There are those who are more spiritually in tune with the East rather than the West and vice versa. I’m not defending one or the other political position, but which side is God calling to you spiritually. A western path or eastern path. Only he knows what is best for you spiritually. In God’s eyes you will be no more accepted if your Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. Both have valid sacraments and a priesthood, if that is what is really bothering you. Let God guide you, not the opinions of others.

You are right good point. I’m not sure, I just feel as if the Papacy is the leader of the Church so perhaps for me right now that is what is best, because it is what I believe to be correct.

 

[holdencaulfield]

holden, even your wording above should give you great pause. When and why would your “feelings” enter into the matter of your faith? Our feelings can be acknowledged but they can NOT lead our faith or our obedience. Love itself is dependent on a chosen action of our free will, not on “feelings.” Does that help?

Actually it does. Thank You. It also helps because I know that I am a very compulsive person.

 

[bkovacs]

You are right good point. I’m not sure, I just feel as if the Papacy is the leader of the Church so perhaps for me right now that is what is best, because it is what I believe to be correct.

If that is what is you really feel deep inside than stick with the Catholic Church. God speaks to people in many ways. Find elements of the church that interest you. Don’t always look at the present state of the church. Look at the past for spiritual guidance. From the writings of the early Saints, theologians, etc. Many Catholics today don’t learn much from the early church fathers. They rely on modern day theologies. I find their wisdom is applicable to today as well the past.

 

[Alexios]

Holden,

Beautiful liturgy does not the True Church make. Even if every Catholic church in the world offered tacky Novus Ordo Masses, and every Orthodox church offered sublimely beautiful liturgies (both of which are far from the truth), would that mean the Eastern Orthodox are correct? Of course not. That isn’t to say that, ideally, the way we pray should reflect the way we believe. But in the real world that sometimes just isn’t the case.

Even many Anglican parishes have beautiful liturgies that far outshine many Novus Ordo Masses, but that doesn’t change anything except for the fact that the Catholic Church is failing to live up to her breathtaking liturgical traditions.

Abuses do not mean the Church isn’t the True Church. Think of the Arian crisis, which wasn’t resolved for centuries, when at times 90% of the Church hierarchy had succumbed to the Arian heresy. Did the Church stop being the Church just because the vast majority of its bishops were heretics, and the orthodox Catholics were persecuted?

You should ignore issues like the destruction of much of Catholicism’s beautiful traditions when thinking about this issue. The Church will eventually get past it; and she already is. We are in the process of recovering a true sense of the Faith. This isn’t the first (or probably the last) time the Church will be tested like this.

I think it is ironically rather convincing of the Catholic Church’s authenticity, that she has and continues to forge on in spite of incredible difficulties which would bring any man-made institution to its knees.

So if you’re looking for flawless liturgy, go Eastern Orthodox, or SSPX, or traditional Anglican or Sedevacantist or Oriental Orthodox, even though those places have plenty of their own problems, liturgical and otherwise. Or try to seek out these places which do exist inside the canonical boundaries of the Catholic Church, places that are becoming more numerous with every day that passes.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Look at the past for spiritual guidance. From the writings of the early Saints, theologians, etc. Many Catholics today don’t learn much from the early church fathers. They rely on modern day theologies. I find their wisdom is applicable to today as well the past.

I agree thanks.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Holden,

Beautiful liturgy does not the True Church make. Even if every Catholic church in the world offered tacky Novus Ordo Masses, and every Orthodox church offered sublimely beautiful liturgies (both of which are far from the truth), would that mean the Eastern Orthodox are correct? Of course not. That isn’t to say that, ideally, the way we pray should reflect the way we believe. But in the real world that sometimes just isn’t the case.

Thank You, this has helped.

The Church will eventually get past it; and she already is.

Are they?

Or try to seek out these places which do exist inside the canonical boundaries of the Catholic Church, places that are becoming more numerous with every day that passes.

Good Idea.

 

[catherineajt]

I am referring to the changes after Vatican II like the new NO Mass. May I ask, why did you leave the Orthodox Church?

There were many reasons. Some personal that related to the particular parish we were attending, which I won’t go into. The larger reasons were:

1. The lack of a strong hierarchial structure; the lack of unity of all the different Orthodox churches.
2. The lack of infallibility on teachings that i feel are important. More and more, Orthodox are being told to simply “look to their conscience” and speak to their own priest about birth control, for instance.
3. Being out of communion with my husband’s family was causing both us and my in laws great spiritual pain.
4. I missed being Catholic! I can’t be more specific than that. I was so happy when my husband and i decided to return to the Church.

My point is, the grass is not always greener, and you have to look to your real reasons for being drawn to Orthodoxy. What are the specific practices, teachings that you feel contribute to a fuller expression of the faith? Is it the Liturgy that has been used since the 2nd century? Well, the Eastern Catholics use that. Is it infant communion, or only male altar servers? Again, you’ll find that in EC churches.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

In response to the very first post. I have just two things I would point out. 1. A feeling will not get you to the truth. #2. Explain the “filioque” controversy to me. This is what caused the “Orthodox” Churches to split from the Roman Church. Additionally, the Eastern Churches did not want to submit to the authority of Rome. Look at the time in history when this took place, when there was strife between the Byzantine Empire and the Roman empire. Politics had much to do with it. Is this what you are going to base your decision on? This is just food for thought.
Deacon Ed B

 

[Hesychios]

You could always become a Byzantine Catholic and have the best of both.

Having tried that, I disagree.

Michael

 

[latinmasslover]

No, however I don’t agree with all of the changes in the Catholic Church. But I do follow and agree with Pope Benedict XVI.

Learning the definition of papal infallibility by reading the docs of V-I took away my doubts. Many make the Pope equal with God, and then when he makes a mistake their faith is crushed and they leave the Church, or become extreme liberals. We’ve had a few really wicked popes, but the Church still stands, as it always will. Just keep praying for the Holy Father. I personally believe he will be spending his entire papacy fixing the Church, getting her back on track.