Help me find modern church architecture in NYC

[proud2Bpapist]

Hi all,

I am a Catholic student at the College of William and Mary doing a research project about the architecture of modern churches. How did instructions about church buildings change after Vatican II? How do modern churches for better or worse, imitate the ideas of prominent secular architects? What are people thinking when they build a hideous church resembling a barn or airport? These are some of the questions I am investigating as I visit parishes and interview their pastors.

I spent an amazing week in Chicago, where a dozen parishes of various aesthetic value all welcomed me and answered my questions. Now I am hoping to do the same in New York city. Of course I plan to visit the gothic masterpiece that is St. Patrick’s cathedral, but I need help finding churches built from 1960 onward. Are there any New Yorkers out there who can recommend a modern-looking parish? Just try to remember the ugliest or most unusual church you ever saw - and I will want to see it too!

 

[chicago]

Hi all,

I am a Catholic student at the College of William and Mary doing a research project about the architecture of modern churches. How did instructions about church buildings change after Vatican II? How do modern churches for better or worse, imitate the ideas of prominent secular architects? What are people thinking when they build a hideous church resembling a barn or airport? These are some of the questions I am investigating as I visit parishes and interview their pastors.

This sounds like a really interesting and worthy project. I’d be interested in eventually reading your essay.

I spent an amazing week in Chicago, where a dozen parishes of various aesthetic value all welcomed me and answered my questions.

I would find it fascinating to know what some of these parishes were. (Perhaps your observations and insights from visiting them, also).

 

[MaryD7]

What a great project!

New York City is divided into two diocese. I live in the Brooklyn/Queens Diocese and I can honestly say that I don’t know of any churches that were built after 1960. This is such an old Catholic town! That doesn’t mean that there aren’t any … I just wouldn’t know where they were at. The archives office may be able to help you. dioceseofbrooklyn.org/about/archive/abt_arch_contact.html

Manhattan, Staten Island, and the Bronx are in the NY Archdiocese (which also includes part of upstate NY). The archives contact may be able to help you there too. ny-archdiocese.org/records/archival-records/

I also notice that they have a Building Office. Maybe that is a better contact. ny-archdiocese.org/departments/index.cfm?i=854

Let us know what you find out. A few of the neighboring counties in the NY Archdiocese probably have the more modern buildings because many New Yorkers have moved out of the city, making it necessary to build more parishes.

Hope this helps!

 

[Chatter163]

St, Charles
644 Clawson Street
Staten Island, NY 10306

The current building was completed in 1973 and is sufficiently ugly.

It is on the corner of a main road, Hylan Blvd., and Clawson Street and may be reached via the 78 bus from the ferry terminal.

 

[Lepanto]

Many of your questions are answered in the book “Ugly As Sin” by Michael S. Rose.

Please read this book!

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I can’t give you any help for NYC, but you might consult the document that started a lot of the problems. Environment and Art in Catholic Worship was a NON-BINDING 1978 statement of a subcommittee of the USCCB that suggested many of the unfortunate changes that drove modern church designs and which were foisted upon older churches. In my diocese, all parishes were forced to remove their communion rails by a bishop who made that document law. This document was superseded in 2000 by Built Of Living Stones, which is far less destructive but almost as vague.

 

[Jenkins]

I would check out St. Agnes on 43rd Street between Lexington and 3rd Avenue. The original church was destroyed by a fire 1993 and the church was rebuilt in 1998. You’ll probably find it interesting because although it is fairly new construction, they tried to design it in a more classical style. It’s a great parish too–definitely worth looking at…

 

[proud2Bpapist]

THANK YOU SO MUCH to everyone who suggested churches or avenues of research. I shall heed your advice.

I own Michael Rose’s Ugly as Sin, in fact reading it a few years ago inspired this project. Another really excellent book on the topic is Steven J. Schloeder’s Architecture in Communion. Published by Ignatious Press, it takes a more scholarly, historical approach to the liturgy and architecture.
I also have copies of EACW and Built of Living Stones. Both are indeed vague and, I assume, merely advisory. Although, EACW completely ignored any sense of tradition; at least BLS pays it lipservice. If these are non-binding, then assume any actual regulation comes from the GIRM and Canon Law? Who composes the GIRM anyway?

If you are familiar with the Chicago area, I visited:
St. Rene Goupil (near Midway airport)
Old St. Mary’s (South Loop)
Holy Name Cathedral*
St. Mary of the Angels (Bucktown)*
St. Robert Bellarmine (N. Austin Ave)
Queen of All Saints Basilica (N Sauganash Ave)*
St. Lambert (Skokie)
St. Philip (Northfield)
Our Lady of the Brook (Northbrook)
St. Hubert (Hoffman Estates)
St. Alphonsus Liguori (Prospect Heights)
St. Isaac Jogues (Niles)

*More traditional (aka beautiful) churches are starred, although Holy Name’s post-Vatican II makeover is in questionable taste. This trip was definitely an assortment of the good, the bad, and the just plain ugly and cheaply built. I probably won’t make it to a dozen in NYC as well, but half that would be nice.

 

[chicago]

Another really excellent book on the topic is Steven J. Schloeder’s Architecture in Communion. Published by Ignatious Press, it takes a more scholarly, historical approach to the liturgy and architecture.

Thanks for mentioning that one. I believe it is what I perused several years back. An execllent essay, IMO. I was especially amused by a dual illustration of a traditional cruciform Church with a corpus laid over it. It was labeled “Church as 'Body of Christ”. The accompanying illustration (which featured a related picture of the chapel of Madonna della Strada at Loyola as it was set up at that time with liturgical choir style seating) had an ameoba overlaid. It’s caption read, “Church as ‘Living Organism’”. Funny stuff!

I also have copies of EACW and Built of Living Stones. Both are indeed vague and, I assume, merely advisory. Although, EACW completely ignored any sense of tradition; at least BLS pays it lipservice.

Cardinal George once has a great quip about how people discard Humane Vitae, but cite EACW as if it is dogma.

If these are non-binding, then assume any actual regulation comes from the GIRM and Canon Law?

Yes.

Who composes the GIRM anyway?

Good question.

If you are familiar with the Chicago area, I visited:
St. Rene Goupil (near Midway airport)
Old St. Mary’s (South Loop)
Holy Name Cathedral*
St. Mary of the Angels (Bucktown)*
St. Robert Bellarmine (N. Austin Ave)
Queen of All Saints Basilica (N Sauganash Ave)*
St. Lambert (Skokie)
St. Philip (Northfield)
Our Lady of the Brook (Northbrook)
St. Hubert (Hoffman Estates)
St. Alphonsus Liguori (Prospect Heights)
St. Isaac Jogues (Niles)

*More traditional (aka beautiful) churches are starred, although Holy Name’s post-Vatican II makeover is in questionable taste. This trip was definitely an assortment of the good, the bad, and the just plain ugly and cheaply built. I probably won’t make it to a dozen in NYC as well, but half that would be nice.

Interesting assortment. Thanks for sharing.